How many carbs one can eat to stay in ketosis varies from person to person. I also just got from the library Keto Clarity by Moore. recommended by my doc.

I believe it is the body burning fat in ketosis that is keeping the hypos away. That kicked in about the 3rd week. (I’m ending week 6 tomorrow). My doc said to be sure to keep the diet – for me- at high fat (although how much fat can one really eat on 800 cal, lol), moderate protein and low carb. And no hypos! Just follow Dr. Mosley’s suggestions. 50 grams of protein. Indulge in full fat milk products. That was a new one for me. I keep the carbs to 50 or sometimes 40 and that keeps me in ketosis. I eat about 1 tsp of fat with each meal, sometimes more if the calories allow it. Eating more of the complex carbs at night helps me sleep better. Think pulses, legumes.

Hi Natasha
I’ve just been reading Jenny Ruhls book ‘low carb problems solved’. She says low mood can happen as your body switches from carb burning to fat burning and will resolve itself as fat burning gets going. Hopefully you ll feel better soon.
One danger is we eat a bit more carbs because we re low and this switches us back to carb burning and prolongs the problem.
Penny

Hi Ruby
That’s about what I aim for. Fats are often higher though, ( I stay within 800 cals) which is maybe good as they stop me getting hungry. Also just read Jenny Ruhls ‘low carb problems solved’ which says too much protein can stall weight loss as the body can convert it into BG. Not fat though.
Penny

Hi sky
Just reading ‘Low carb problems solved’ by Jenny Ruhl(. £3 on kindle)
She says low mood is caused by the changeover your body has to make from carb burning to fat burning, and should resolve fairly quickly as this occurs, especially if you keep your carbs low.
Penny

Hi fever diva
800 would be a huge meal wouldn’t it??!!
Good luck working it out
Penny

Hi Cazzowary
Have a look at this book
‘Low carb problems solved’ by Jenny Ruhl
About £3 on kindle. Lots of technical- but easy to grasp- info on why plateaus happen and all the other problems.
Also have a look on the thread I started called ‘useful links’.
Penny

Thanks FatCat, that’s interesting and useful. Like you, I’m not diabetic, but distinctly overweight. I can stick to 800 kcal with low carb under normal circumstances and don’t want to give up long distance cycling in order to stick to it rigidly. Weight is coming off fast, and I don’t want to jeopardise that. Actual weight loss is mainly water I guess, but I’ve calculated that I’m currently losing 1lb fat per day. If I find any reliable advice, I’ll post it.

Hi Clare
I’ve been doing the Fast800 for three weeks. I ve always suffered from ‘ reactive hypos’ ie low BG attacks which are horrible. But although at the beginning I had to really spread my calories out to avoid the dreaded hypo, now I’m not really having any. I used to have to eat between lunch and dinner or I’d get into a bad state. Today I had some home made veg soup. I was fine.
Throughout the 3 weeks I’ve been exercising as usual.
Hope this helps to reassure you
Penny

Hi happysheryl
You can get a kindle version of Michaels book.
Penny

Thanks for that, pmshrink. I’ll check it out.

Hi Martin
I’ve put a few links on a thread called ‘useful links’. One of them is Jenny Ruhls book ‘Low carb problems solved’
Which explains a lot of interesting stuff about low carb diet problems including hypos. Apparently you won’t faint, your body has a mechanism to give you enough BG to stay conscious, and you shouldn’t eat sugar which will set you off into a high then low pattern again.
I was interested in this because I have ( no meds) reactive hypos and always have. They’re much better now but at the start of the diet it was important to eat little and often.
I agree the doc was way off.
Penny

Hi Charliebee
That was difficult! At least she softened a bit in the end.
At 25.6 your BMI doesn’t worry her- but if you lost a stones worth of visceral fat you d still be at 24 and your sugar/ insulin system would be working better! But I think she doesn’t know this.
Maybe she ll be alright in 8 weeks and reduce your meds. If not, lots of people on the forums have reduced their own meds- you don’t actually need her permission, after all.
Well done for nor swearing
Penny

Hi GofH
I do really admire your determination
Penny ( also known as pmshrink- profession, not a description of what I’m trying to do!)

Hi Reydoncyclist,
I’m interested to know this too. I cycled 54 miles last weekend. I had a variation of the no-carb Bircher for breakfast, and a black pudding and poached egg salad for lunch in a café. I took 2 of the beetroot falafels to eat as snacks along the way, and some nuts. Before the last 5 miles (uphill) I stopped and bought a banana and had a few raisins, along with a latte. I just felt like I needed them, and decided the calorie count cycling, like you, would be fairly high. Had a low carb dinner. Felt fine that evening and since. I’m not diabetic though – just overweight – so I suspect it’s less critical for me.

From Jane

Two excellent books on sugar addiction and how to break it are Sarah Wilson’s ‘I quit sugar’ and David Gillespie’s ‘The Sweet Poison Quit Plan’.

Hi Aly
You could not eat any of the bread while on the BSD then it doesn’t matter how many cals are in it.
Penny

I’m a week into the diet and went for a 66 mile cycle ride today. After about 35 miles, I had to take on extra food in order to continue. Apps suggest that I used 1800 kcal over the 66 miles. Is there any advice anywhere on adjusting calorie intake for high energy expenditure?

Low Carb Problems Solved’ by Jenny Ruhl. About £3 on kindle

Hi Malkay
I really recommend
‘Low Carb Problems Solved’ by Jenny Ruhl. About £3 on kindle
Explains how and why plateaus happen and lots of other stuff. I read the whole book non stop!
Penny

Hi Charlie,

First thing is don’t give up. Michael does mention the huge amount of scepticism from the medical profession in his book. I’m just starting the diet and haven’t yet discussed with my GP … I’m expecting a similar conversation that you had so I thought that I’d loose some weight first.

Your doctor sounds reckless … there is no way that non-Insulin medication should be continued to the point of getting hypos. Hypos are dangerous … if you are driving they can lead to an accident and if you’re on your own and you pass out they can lead to death. Did you tell your GP the number of calories that you are eating?

Also, if you are getting hypos then this is counter productive to the diet. When you have a hypo you have to eat sugar quickly to get rid of it.

Your drugs look a bit strange. For me, my GP had me on the max dose of Metformin (4 tablets a day) before putting me on any other drugs. There is a risk with this as some people find that Metformin upsets the digestive system. I’ve not had any problems.

I found Gliclazide horrible … put on loads of weight and had hypos every afternoon. Consultant took me off Gliclazide and put me on Exenatide. I feel that Metformin and Exenatide are far better options as the Exenatide suppresses appetite and neither of these drugs are likely to lead to hypos … even on this diet.

The problem that you have is that the most important measure for your GP is the Hba1C. But this result changes slowly because Hba1C is an average of your blood sugar over 60 to 90 days. So if you complete the 8 weeks diet and it’s a complete success and your blood sugars are fine … your Hba1C test result might still show a raised level for a futher 8 weeks.

I wonder if you might be better off getting your doctor to agree to stopping the Gliclazide and either increase the Metformin or put you on Exenatide or both.

Hope this helps

Martin

Hi charliebee38, I must say I am somewhat concerned about your situation. You are very young to be so far into the medications. I only reached your stage in my sixties, when my weight was higher than yours. I wish someone with more knowledge could advise you. I don’t know enough but please be cautious in reducing your meds. I know it is very disappointing when others do not share in your optimism, but Michael did mention that there are some types of diabetes that do not respond to this regime. You will need to be patient and make sure you check back with the Diabetic Clinic regularly. Best wishes, I hope it works out for you.

Hi Aliba, I think we are all finding we are worth it! Worth the effort and organising/ planning that goes into eating a healthy diet. We deserve to have bodies that function properly, minds that are not foggy from carb overload and if we happen to look pretty good in smaller size clothes then that’s a bonus too.
I don’t have to lose weight, I’m one of the “thin on the outside, fat on the inside” people that Dr Moseley talks about, but I love to hear about everyone’s success.
It inspired me to encourage my sister to start and she’s lost over 3kg in her first week. She’s not diabetic, but quite overweight and she’s enjoying the food and not feeling deprived at all.

Captainlynne – you’re an inspiration….10 inches off your waist…that’s incredible…Congratulations!

It gets easier gents…..I’ve learnt to adapt the recipes for myself…stir fry with lots of green veg, some protein (chicken, turkey and fish) sometimes a couple of spoonfuls of brown rice spices, chilli, couple of tblespoons of coconut milk, fish or soy sauce or a colourful salad with olive oil, mustard and vinegar dressing, mushroom omelettes and salad or veg, eggs or full fat Greek yoghurt or cottage cheese with seeds and frozen berries for breakfast.
A repertoire of easy things that are tasty, varied, give optimum nutrition and don’t leave you feeling deprived…then things from the book when I have more time.
Best of luck to you both…..it really does work even for those of us who have struggled for years with diabetes and weight gain!

Good advice … thanks guys.

I’ll try out on a couple of sandwiches with some energy gels / bars as emergency backup. Will let you know how I get on.

Cheers.
Martin

Mrsjaffa…..I’m a latte fiend myself so found a way round it…..half full fat milk and half water or even coffee with a dash of cream. I bought some cardboard cups and plastic lids from Amazon and then feel as if I’ve bought one from a coffee shop but saved myself the money. For me it’s been about adapting and finding a way to manage on the plan so I don’t feel deprived…it’s as much a mental journey as a physical one. If you don’t like cold water have it hot or try peppermint tea….it’s as good as water. Hopefully like many of us on here you will find that your tastes change…..all my life I’ve despised broccoli but have discovered purple sprouting and tender stem stir fried with a few chilli flakes and now have it nearly every day and love it.
Thanks Cherrianne – I’m much less,of a slobs than I used to be 😃 I’m as delighted with the BP as I am with the the dress size….well nearly! The dress cost a lot of money…more than I’d usually spend but it looks fab and for the first time in a long, long time….I think I’m worth it 😏

Hi,

Agree with you that the recipes are complicated. I think that there’s a reason behind this. With a low calorie diet it’s important that a good range of vitamins and nutrients is achieved. Hence each recipe tends to have quite a lot of ingredients. It would be ideal to have the whole family on the same diet so that half tins don’t get used all the time. Alternatively, more recipes that can be frozen (that would be the solution for the chilli / curry recipes).

I’m just starting as well and my plan is to do some mass preparations (eg … toasting a packet of pine nuts) then keep them in an airtight storage jar so that they’re re ready for next time.

The mashing / blending of ingredients described is unlikely to be any different from the normal chewing process in terms of GI. The problem with modern processing is that flours / grains are processed using precision steel rollers which gives a far finer flour / product. Far easier to use in baking as it’s much more consistent and gives a finer and lighter product (bread or cake) … but GI is significantly raised with this processing.

Having been diabetic for 14 years I feel that this is my last chance. Just finished day 1 and I don’t feel too hungary so I’m pretty optimistic.

A knighthood … how about a Nobel prize? After all … one was awarded for the research into stomach ulcers … Diabetes is a far bigger issue.

Cheers,
Martin

Mrsjaffa13, as Cherrianne mentioned I seem to be the only one so far to have finished the 8 weeks. It might help you to know that I n that time I lost 27 pounds, 10 inches from my waist and nearly 2 dress sizes. My fasting blood sugars and blood pressure also reduced. I’m continuing on the 800 calories for another few weeks before going away on holiday, then moving on to 5:2 (or 2:5). So far this week I gave lost another 3 pounds.

Thanks Janet1973, that is good to know 🙂
I made it through the day without a slip though so i’m proud of myself. I really need to see this through, my health and future depend on it. I don;t want it to be another one of those diets that I can’t stick at.
Glad you’re feeling much better! xx

Thank you for all your messages of support , I weighed myself last night so on day one have maned to drink lots of water which I struggle with as I like hot drinks rather than cold. My main vice is latte so giving them up is going to be difficult but am hoping my will power will overcome.
Bill your story is a real inspiration and I think you have been amazing so far.
I managed 760 calories today and taking a multi vitamin and on iron supplements (yuck☹️) anyway but hoping to come off them soon after a minor op.
Looking forward to sharing my journey with you all and if I can help someone and encourage them as you all have me, I will be happy.

Hi, I’m new to this, but among the various hopeful voices declaring possible salvation from Type 2 Diabetes I have ended up here. I’ve read the book and am raring to go… BUT… the recipes at the back…?… oh my goodness! I’m sorry but they are FAR too complicated and fussy for me, and it makes no sense to me at all that one would bake or smash up nuts and fruit, thus making them digest faster, which is worse isn’t it, from the glycemic point of view???

So far, I’ve made myself some simple muesli, adding flaked almonds, sunflower seeds and cinnamon to a plain organic muesli base as per Rick Gallop. Also, I had sardines on a slice of heavy sourdough rye bread, delicious.

I’m 56, was 20’4 at my worst but am now 19’9, losing 3lbs in 3 days, and have been indulging myself in a sedentary lifestyle for, it now seems, far too long. I’ve just been told this last Monday the 15th January that I have type 2 Diabetes. I’ve started to use, almost for the first time, my cross-trainer and have done twice daily 16 minute sessions every day this week. As a result of the exercise, the weight loss, and the better food choices, I am feeling really a lot better.

Dr Michael Mosley needs to be knighted in my opinion. I suspect that I will never be able to thank him enough.

Welcome Mrsjaffa, you will find lots of support here. It’s such a friendly forum and everyone seems really keen to help each other through the rough patches with advice and support. I think CaptainLynne is the only one who has finished the first eight weeks. The rest of us are mostly just a few weeks in but learning fast.
Nearly everyone has found it makes a radical difference to our health and enjoyment of life, within a really short time.
Well done Aliba ( or should I just call you slobs?), the drop in dress sizes must be a great feeling, so good for self esteem and the blood pressure improvement is a bonus.
How sad though Bill that one of your work colleagues would try and sabotage you. My sister has a few mean spirited ones like that at her workplace. Probably someone who should be looking after their own health and is jealous of your success. Some people are just not very evolved are they? Great you had the willpower to spoil their pathetic game!

Dear Salky, I posted this on another message so forgive me repeating myself but please ask your nurse about people who have had a gastric band. How many calories do they eat a day? How quickly do they lose weight? And they have under gone a serious operation so cannot do anything else whereas you can ease up, go onto 5:2 etc when you get to your goal.
I said this to my dietitian when she said the same to me and she had to see the similarities without the operation. x

Also my impression is that if you do this you should eat good sources of high quality protein so your body doesn’t start nibbling on your muscles for it’s calories. Is it for extended periods or an odd single day? I think that wold make a difference too. Brill way to exercise. (I live in Holland!)

Yeah see that would keep me awake till 4!

Hi snackerlady
I have read a few other posts from people who have had cold-like and hangover-like symptoms. I felt nauseous and shaky on day 5 and finished work early on day 6 as I felt wiped out. I don’t think its surprising; we have severely restricted our cal intake and are forcing our bodies to fuel themselves in a totally different way. But I am on day 8 now and feeling much better. So hopefully it will pass for you too.

That’s excellent news Mike, well done. A diet is ok for a couple of weeks but keeping it going for six weeks takes real stamina. Good job.

It seems that quite a few of the recipes have calorie counts that aren’t quite right. I use the nhs calorie counter website to check all my ingredients just in case, and it doesn’t take me long at all. Usually, I have found the book overestimates the calories, for instance the trout with lime and mushy peas was much less when I worked it out.

Hi Guys, I havent calculated any. I have been using the book along side some of my own. Cooked since Monday when i started. Lost 5lbs. I will say i exercise each day for over an hour ( we have 2 dogs) - running, cycling. walking and climbing which is really good for the whole body. I have been dieting since September when i was diagnosed, so have lost weight prior to buying the book and signing up for this lifestyle. You cant help noticing the portion size has reduced dramatically too. I have stopped drinking alcohol and reduced decaf coffee and tea intake. I will use the books recipes as much as i can unless i find post here that say theirs is more accurate. Cheers guys . Best of luck. MARK

Hi Salky. Not in Cumbria, but near Durham, also in the far north and not a million miles away 😃 I’m now in week 9 of the 8 week plan (after consulting the team). I’m aiming to stay on the 800 cals for another few weeks until I go on holiday, then change to 5:2 or 2:5. At the end of the 8 weeks I’d lost 27 pounds, reduced fasting BG from 10.9 to 5.3, BP down, and lost almost two dress sizes. This week I have lost another 3 pounds so far. 😃

Paul – don’t see the nurse for another two weeks, but we had discussed coming off the meds. When I realised how I was feeling (remembering questions she’d asked) I took none yesterday, and only half of each tablet today. Feeling much better now, so will continue on half of each tablet daily until I see her. I didn’t want to just stop without checking BP with her. Hopefully when I see her it will still be ok and I can come off the meds 😃

Hi Penny,
Thanks for your support! Well, I’m in between anger and crying! Firstly (after an hour wait) I had my tests then saw the doctor, i said i’ve started a healthy eating plan and explained it and that I wanted to come off medication in the future starting with the Glicazide. I was told that my blood sugars are too high to do this safely – so i asked when would it be safe ‘when you’re having hypos’ was the answer. you can imagine my disgust. my Hba1C was 68 and that i need to get down to 48. When i then said ok , so I will aim to loose a stone or more then she said ‘you don’t need to loose any more weigh, your bmi is fine (it’s 25.6) – (errrrrr – If i weigh less then surely my body don’t have to fight to get the insulin around?).

She then went on to (try ) to explain how insulin works at which point i had to stop before i swore at her.

my question then was so if i follow this eating plan and do the exercise etc etc and i’m still high in BS – what else is there, her answer was more medication.

I requested a scan to measure my visceral fat to be told they don’t do this. – at this point she admitted I was motived and agree to test me again in 8 weeks and review my medication – and to have a look into my antibodies to see if there is something else going on because i’m only 38.

I understand that if my body isn’t producing enough insulin that I may need medication but I want to know that I have tried my hardest to reduce my BS’ myself and give my body a chance.

It’s made me even more determined! – i’mnow off for a dog walk!!

x

To everyone who replied to my item on the negative nurse. Thank you all so very much for your support, the comments have boosted my confidence enormously. I am amazed at the number of people with T2 diabetes who are finding the time to compare notes with each other. It can only be a good thing.
This book is going to turn out to be a life-saver for some folk, I have decided to follow its contents right to the bitter end. It will be interesting to see just how many of its readers cure themselves of this horrid disease.
Anybody else live in Cumbria in the far North of England as I do? We all have the same aims, maybe we could get together to form a little social club?

I made them to exact measurements and were way too runny. And they don’t taste good, not worth the calories in my opinion. Loving the sardine dip though!

thanks Bill…interested that you are feeling happier and less stressed….me too. I’m convinced it’s to do with the good fat, protein and no refined carbs but particularly the fat. When I was a kid in the 60s we ate average size portions of home cooked food, full fat everything, no snacks, mum would bake once a week and we would eat a couple of her cakes and occasionally we would have a small portion of sweets. None of us were fat. I’m back to eating like that albeit with fewer calories and bit of dark chocolate at weekends and like you no cake!
A crispy crime (sic…predictive text!) donut has 450 calories…..why would anyone bother!
Onward and upward!
Welcome Mrs Jaffa 💐……you’ll meet lots of positive people on here who have all been where you are….I’ve never joined a forum before but this one is very supportive, great ideas and everyone rooting for each other to succeed…….enjoy the journey!

Martin

To much hassle to go to the doctors every time I want it checking , also some ‘ white coat ‘ syndrome.

Yes if I take it 3 times in a row the readings were all different

Last time I took it twice a day [ same time every day ] and just used the average , it was maybe 10% higher than it should be.

Although this blanket less than 140/80 is a change , in the old days it was some figure + your age so as you got older the safe readings where allowed to rise , now the WHO wants every one on the planet to have the same readings irrespective of age,weight,fitness etc

I really need one of those 24 hour monitors that you wear , may ask if they are available to borrow at my surgery.

captainlynne

Thats impressive are you off the meds now ?

regards Paul

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/797688/experience-with-the-whoosh

Here people discuss the science and pseudo science about plateaux

Thank you pmshrink and penny for the link info.
Water is not the problem for me, I don’t retain salt (Addison’s disease). If i drink too much water, I faint.
Unfortunately, pain killers won’t solve the problem and will actually make injury recovery more dangerous than it is. I have to be constantly aware of how the back feels. I’ve just been given permission, after a year, to do 1 to 2 minutes of very specific exercises, for two minutes and then I need to wait a day to see how the back handled them! In addition, i have scleroderma and the bowels don’t seem to know how to work properly. If i added painkillers, i’d end up in the emergency room with an impacted bowel. bor-ing. Right now I’m dealing with mild autoimmune pancreatitis (caught in time), so all rules are off. Elevated prednisone to handle it. Simple carbs, no fats until the inflammation goes down. Sure do appreciate the support; it has been a very helpful part of this process. I don’t give up easily. It takes someone prying my hands off the go button to give up. It will only be if continuing is a detriment to my health as dieting has been in the past. i have a porphyria-like reaction to dieting. My doc figured out that i needed more steroids to handle the stress of the diet (since i don’t produce them) and he was right. A trade off, but it works! Just persistence and attention to details.
I’ll sure be glad to have a regular life soon!!!! I can’t wait to hike again.
Sunday I see the Dalai Lama, with whom I have had the privilege to study with for decades. Wheelchair and all, i’ll be there! A great pleasure soon to be had!
I appreciate all of your kind ideas and encouragement.

Thanks Janet – I like to have a coffee after dinner – we have one of those nespresso machines so that is my treat at the end of the day!