Hi neohdiver
Great news for you after all your hard work to reverse your diabetes. I’m not there yet, maybe I won’t ever be! But I’m trying.
Inspired by Prof Taylor’s work & Dr Michael Mosley I’ve clung on to the only hope I personally have been given. My Drs were quite useless.
I know there is no guarantee of reversing my type 2 diabetes. Both my parents were type 2, mine is probably genetic. If the best I get is really good control I’ll be happy. I know well the worst diabetes can get

I do think (having read widely about diabetes) that I have a personal fat threshold. I may not be able to reach & maintain that goal. The sylph-like figure trapped in my memory of youth may stay there forever?

The original diet with shakes was done for speed of weight loss in a monitored trial. Essential control of & consumption of calculated calories was key to that diet trial

We are eating real food in real time. This is experimental stuff on willing volunteers. We have nothing to lose except weight! I’m a happy Guinea-pig. But I can’t wait five years for results. I want, need CHANGE.
I believe excess CARBOHYDRATES are TOXIC TO ME. How low do I go? I don’t yet know. If it’s a ketogenic diet I need then fat for fuel is what I will do

This is a huge learning curve for us all. Medics ( who are willing to learn too) are trying to get this right. Some , maybe most, will have to eat crow!

The experiment continues. May we all benefit & see a victorious end

Knowledge IS power. Power of CHOICE & CHANGE.
Eureka

Hi Hasimoto
It’s a great feeling isn’t it? Reading the forum 8 weeks ago , I was a little sceptical that I’d be able to finish 8 weeks…now I’m looking forward to continuing for another 8. Your posts are always really encouraging, you always manage to say just the right thing and are so helpful to everyone . Please keep up the good work.
Much joy

Ditto, as to the calories given. I made the Chicken with Spicy Lentils today (followed the recipe exactly as written, for the first time). Total calories (for 2 servings, theoretically) 1088 calories – or 544 calories per serving. The book lists the calorie count as 470. Anything that uses “handsful” as a measure – or that says use one {insert vegetable or meat item here} is not going to be accurate as to calories because calories depend on the precise quantity.

I’m splitting it into 4 servings. My experience with this meal is that 1/3 to 1/4 is a generous amount.

If you are trying the diet because you are trying to replicate Dr. Taylor’s successful studies with the 800 calorie diet, it wold be worth your while to calculate everything. If you just generally want to lose weight – don’t worry about it. A few calories more or less won’t interfere with weight loss as long as you’re in the ballpark. A lot of people are successful in lowering BG and losing weight despite the imprecision in the book. My goals are slightly different (since I’ve already successfully controlled my BG for 6 months and lost 50 lbs). I am interested in pursuing remission. For that, I want to replicate the Taylor studies – which means I need precision.

Fantastic job, Lynne!

Welcome to the veterans club desperate dieter! 🙂

Wow! Well done Lynne
Your progress is amazing.I finished 8 weeks today and am 2 stone down , but have another few stone to lose yet. I’m so pleased for you and hope I can be just as determined. You are an inspiration, thank you . Much joy

Just a word of caution.

Dr. Taylor’s work is what inspired me to start this diet – so I am here because of his work.

Unfortunately, I believe he is now extending his declarations about reversing diabetes beyond the strength of his studies. His studies (2 of them completed and one ongoing) were based on 600-800 calorie diets consisting of shakes + up to 200 grams of real food (primarily low carb veggies). He constructed that diet based on a 97% remission rate for diabetics post-bariatric surgery. The theory had to do with a dramatic decrease in calories to a level far below maintenance being key to losing the fat around the liver and pancreas.

He now talks about personal fat thresholds, and weight loss being the key -at whatever rate is convenient for you. This is the really old (successful for only a very few) theory (10% loss should bring your blood glucose under control) – beefed up to make it personal (i.e. failures are explained because you just haven’t lost enough weight to get to your PFT), and a more significant weight loss (he suggests generally 15% – again, you just didn’t lose enough before). Nothing in his studies supports that – and since I’ve lost nearly double what he suggests is sufficient with no change in insulin resistance I am a huge skeptic of his new (unsupported) insights.

That triggered me to do more research. What I have found supports his studies – that there is something in the 800 calorie diet (and/or fasting) that triggers reversing the diabetic spiral, in part by decreasing the glycogen stores in the liver. That same effect is not achieved (for most) by merely reducing weight.

That research is why I am losing the last 19 lbs using the fast 800 diet. It is consistent with Dr. Taylor’s actual studies, not his current theories (unsupported by quality data).

Prior to shifting to the fast 800 diet, combined with 16:8 fasting, I could not tolerate more than 20 grams of carb in a sitting and maintain normal blood glucose. I’ve been regularly testing my limits. This past week (nearly 2 weeks into the changed diet) I was able to eat 33 grams in a sitting with a normal BG response. My fasting BG levels have been dropping, and I’ve even had a couple of days where I stayed below 5.8 the entire day. Either I coincidentally hit my PFT at the exact time I changed my diet OR it is the severe calorie restriction and/or fasting that is shifting something. I believe the latter.

Hi Lostgirl
High five. ✋

Hi Narisya, I love dates – or I did!! But I would advise staying off those sweet recipes until you have reached your goal. Then make some if you can’t resist – but freeze the rest so you are not too tempted!! 🙂

Eureka, I smiled at your post too!

Lynne is absolutely amazing and a real poster girl for the BSD!! 🙂

Noella it is worth reading Cherrianne and Bill1954’s posts. They had unexpected rises in fbs about four weeks in, it lasted for a couple of weeks and then dropped to a normal range. Hiccups at this stage seem to be the norm, but along with what has happened to Lynne and several others you can see the end result of following this diet is absolutely amazing for your blood sugars! 🙂

Exercise is not required to lose weight or gain control of diabetes. It takes a heck of a lot of exercise to burn off a pound. What exercise is better for is decreasing insulin resistance by providing more storage places for glycogen – but that’s a long term goal and doesn’t significantly impact the short term blood glucose control or weight loss.

I’m the same height, nearly the same starting weight (89.3 kg). My diabetes has been in control since 3 days after diagnosis, solely by a change in diet. Starting the day of diagnosis I limited my carbs to what my meter would tolerate, without going over 7.8. For me, that works out to about 20 grams of carbs in a 3 hour period (which I learned by excessive testing . . . my poor fingers!) Since October, I’m pretty sure I can still count on 2 hands the number of readings above 7.8

Without increasing exercise, I also went from 89.3 kg to 66.4 kg (since October 2), by limiting my calorie intake to 1200 calories/day. I do climb stairs to get to my office – but I was doing that before and have not increased stairs or walking or anything else by way of exercise. I sit all day most days (between arriving and leaving). On weekends, I walk a pathetic 2-3000 steps.

That’s (nearly) all before the BSD. Depending on the flavor of the BSD you’re following, your weight loss results may be even better! (If your immediate goal is to control blood glucose, you will need to pay careful attention to the recipes you choose. Many of the recipes are too high in carbohydrates for me to eat – although the weight I’ve lost, combined with fasting and an even lower calorie consumption, seems to have finally changed something. I managed to eat 33 carbs in one meal and keep my BG below 6.2 at about 2 weeks into the BSD 800 + 16:8 fasting.

Hi Neohdiver, another fabulous informative post from you. I am starting to put together some tips for starters which a few of us are working on. I have copied and pasted your post to my notes so it can be added when the thread notes are completed. You will be given the credit for the posting!! 🙂

10th day today. If I resume :

For me, 5 pounds less and the blood sugar is now 6.8 (it was, at his highest, 7.9 . I am considered prediabetic) My husband who his diabetic has lost 10 pounds and after some ups and downs his sugar level is tending to stabilization (between 6 et 7). Before this program, his sugar level was sometimes at 15. It is very motivating to follow this plan together.

Just been reading your story Kara and I was so impressed with your determination in sticking to the regime without any results in over 2 weeks, most people would have given up before now. It will encourage a lot of others to stick at it, now you finally have some losses.

Well done and hope you lose lots more soon, you will certainly have a firmer sleeker figure with all that exercise.

Hi olliej
Just get back on the wagon. You know how to steer it
Eureka

It’s amazing how grot people seem to feel after eating any starchy carbs. I’m keeping clear!! 🙂

Hi Beverley,
There have been people who’ve lost weight just on the 800 cals per day. So you will lose weight if you stick to that and avoid the easily digestible carbs mentioned in the book ( potatoes, rice, pasta etc). Best to make sure your carbs come from pulses, legumes, veg, the more complex carbs that contain plenty of fibre.
I think you’ll find that most of us who are counting carbs are doing it to bring blood sugars under control. Sometimes if people are worried about about weight loss stalling we might ask them to check their carb intake as it is possible to have a high carb intake on 800 cals if you don’t eat from a wide range of foods.
While you are waiting for your book you could download the articles from the Daily Mail, search for the 8 week blood sugar diet. That will have enough info and the meal plans to get you started 🙂

Hi Lostgirl
This is what I mean. We need to chat a bit for the sake of our mind, body & soul. Stuff happens & it throws us a curve ball ( phrase party). This diet is tough. You are trying hard to cope with STUFF! You need to concentrate on YOU just now.

Little bit at a time is your way to go at the moment. Small victories. You are getting there well done
Keep on keeping on
Eureka

Karra,

Just wanted to echo earlier advice you were given. 5.2 is NOT a hypo. You may have hypo feelings (because of the contrast to what your body is used to), but 5.2 is actually near the top of normal blood sugar ranges (when not influenced by recently eaten foods). Trying to keep your BG above 5.2 will sabotage your efforts to achieve control of your BG. Rest assured that as long as you are in normal BG ranges (above around 3.9), it is not an actual hypo and you will be better off (long term) if you don’t feed it carbohydrates.

As to why you are not losing – building muscles increases the glycogen they store. To store one gram of glycogen, requires 3 grams of water. In addition, dramatically increasing muscle activity injures the muscles, causing inflammation. Inflammation retains water. So the dramatic shift in muscle activity, plus redoubling your efforts when you didn’t initially experience weight loss, might well keep you at the same place on the scale. Aside from water, you are certainly losing weight. It is likely just that you are retaining more water to repair those muscles and support new glycogen storage.

Glad to hear you’re seeing the scale change – but thought it might still help to see an explanation of why it might not have been moving before.

thanks Lynne 🙂

Wow

I meant also to say that as an experiment in eating lots of carbs after having restricted them that I actually didn’t feel that great later on and I don’t think it had anything to do with overeating as they weren’t huge portions! I wouldn’t go so far as to say I felt ill but I certainly didn’t feel up to opening the single malt my boss bought me as a birthday present which I was planning to.

Karra, at last Yippee 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
So happy for you, it’s going to start dropping off now. Well deserved after all this time x

You’ve had a really great birthday treat with the jeans!!! 🙂

Hi everyone, just completed the second week and I am logging everything I consume and averaging 81 g carbs per day and 824 cals per day. I have lost 6 lb but I am within my maintenance range of 120 – 125 lbs, so not surprised that I had only lost 1.2 lb in the second week. Pleased to say that I have had no chocolate cravings and no sugar highs and lows, which is the main reason I am trying BSD. I did have a banana split on my wedding anniversary and thoroughly enjoyed it! Sleep patterns have changed and I am now getting a good 6 hours sleep every night with the knock on effect that I feel more energetic the following day. Drinking lots of water – quite often I think I’m hungry, but in fact I’m thirsty. I don’t have any tempting food in the house ie biscuits, cakes, sweets or chocolate (apart from cocoa powder and occasionally eat a teaspoon of that to keep me sweet) because my will power is such that I wouldn’t stop at one portion!

Hi Stingle,
Are you counting carbs? I was doing 50g per day to get my blood sugars into the non diabetic range, I’ve started having a few 60g days a week and it hasn’t affected my levels at all.
I’m a bit hesitant to go higher as I don’t want to undo my good work and get stuck with carb cravings. I’m very happy with what I’m currently able to eat though.

End of the second week and overall my average has been 81g carbs per day and 824 calories per day. Having lost 4.8 lbs at the end of the first week, I have lost another 1.2 lb and can definitely feel my clothes are loose around my waist. Not had any chocolate cravings or sugar highs and lows and sleeping better and hence feeling more lively. Not expecting to lose any more weight unless I do more exercise.

Captqinlynne, I have emailed you, just in case its ended up in your spam!

Hi,
Perhaps you are gaining muscle weight, Karra? Its hard to ignore that weight gain but keep at it, just a minor set back yeah for now.

Thank you for the birthday wishes, I had a lovely meal with family. I was the only one at the table not to have a starter and do you know what, the sky didn’t cave in! I ended up having a less than sensible main course as there really was nothing that was even close. That said it wasn’t a huge portion and I really enjoyed it (I have been known, in the past to make a ‘good’ choice then feel deprived enough to make up for it later). I had a lovely pudding that felt like a proper treat. Today I’m back to my new normal, even visiting a food festival and having nothing other than black coffee and some tasters of cheese.

Just to make the weekend even sweeter I noticed that a pair of jeans I didn’t take on holiday a month ago because they were a bit snug are now hanging off me 😀

Enjoy what’s left of the weekend everyone xx

Ok own up…..who stole 1¾ lbs from me overnight?

There I was happily sleeping away and must have been in a sound sleep as I never even felt them being lifted from me, it wasn’t until I got on the scales this morning that the theft was discovered. Of course to be honest, I didn’t really want them, so feel free to keep them….lol

I’m so pleased, finally some progress

hugs
Karra

Hi Alanhypno,

I’ve read others having the shakes when starting out on this diet. I have gotten the chills & lightheadedness. So it is not uncommon. What worked for me was easing into the diet. Weaning off all sugars & some carbs. Increasing greens & fiber. I go to the gym about 3xs a week & joined a Zumba class once a week. I eat the same foods nearly every week. I prepare my weekly meals on the weekend…lots of soup like zuchinni/kale/spinach with a touch of sour cream & loads of curry powder. Some of the ingredients in Dr. Mosley’s book are expensive for me so I stick to what I can afford.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions, I am trying to cut out bread & reduce potatoes etc. Cheese is one of my greatest loves, I suppose I must reduce the quantity sadly! I am hoping to get my husband keen as well as that will make it easier-we both already snack on nuts – much preferred to biscuits or cake. Will let you know if I get my head around it all. Thanks again.

Hi love4alan,

I have similar issues plus I got chills & light-headed after the 3rd day. My body needed to acclimate to the increase in fiber intake. Since I have IBS, I had to blend my veggies in the food processor & make it into soup. Taking gas-relief over the counter helps especially at night time. After a week or two my body got used to the increase not only in fiber but water intakes. I still have issues but its under control.

Oh had bacon n egg with mushroom tomatoes this morning are these allowed

Lucia, my heart was pounding reading that. She hasn’t has she? Not really? Please tell me it isn’t true!! Phewwww, it was a NIGHTMARE!!

Your subconscious is telling you you can’t and won’t go back to that! What a relief!!

You’re now over the most difficult part of BSD and it will be much easier from now on.

XXX

I’ve just read your original post! Can’t believe how far you have come since the 8th March. Your first week was your adjustment phase, so in a way you have done 3 weeks of BSD proper. Incredible progress Lucia 🙂 🙂 🙂

So,
I went to the Chinese takeaway, my local, I got my usual. Special fried rice, sweet and sour chicken, large bag of chips.
After I ate all that, (that’s three dinner plates full) I ate a family bag of twirls and chocolate buttons, a tube of Pringles and a pint glass of Pepsi, and still felt hungry. I went into the kitchen for something else to eat……there was a noise……. SOMETHING WOKE ME UP.
It was a NIGHTMARE
OMG, I could feel my heart clogging up and my carbs going into overdrive.
I went into the kitchen, wake this time and kissed an apple.
Phew!!!!
Don’t do that again to me, I can’t cope?!!!?!!
My heart was racing.
I CANNOT go back the way I was.

I embrace my next month on bs800.

I need a lie down now after that. I was so upset afterwards.

What an eye opener.

I think my mood, my health and my will power was up and down last week, and it worried me. As it played on my mind, I dreamed about it.

Love Lucia

Xxxx

Thanks good advice Hashimoto 😀 will do that and see how it goes .

Everytime I eat pulses it leaves me bloated and windy is this normal? Think my body is detoxing as I’m never out the loo is normal? How long does it last? And yes my water intake has increases substantially

Thanks so much orchid. You’ve really cleared things up and helped me confirm ideas I had. I’ll do as you have fine and keep the baked goods out of the picture. I think I’ll add swimming to my regime from next week as its low impact and will help with overall weight loss.
Wishing you all the best with your regime moving forward.
Thanks again, Narisya

Hi Stingle, my feeling is that carbs caused us all the trouble in the first place. I have increased my calories but kicked the carbs into the wide blue yonder. I may have a roast potato and a roast parsnip with my Christmas dinner, but apart from celebrations I will be keeping of them. I’m averaging about 1200 calories a day now so you should be fine building up to 1250!

I’ve been doing it now for a few weeks, I haven’t gained any weight, in fact I have lost a few ounces each week.
I will have the occasional glass of red wine because I love it. I just want to stay well now that I am.
If you want to introduce some carbs I would suggest introduce them slowly and in small quantities to see what happens.
🙂

Thanks very much orchid! That helped a lot.

Hi Hashimoto, I’ve just been thought the website again and been thinking through how to get it to work. One of the things it totally kills are any of the rehydration drinks at the end of a run to replenish fluids. They are also meant to help rebuild the glycogen stores and minimise muscle pain. ! I never did take them, as there is good research that says the best rehydration for rebuilding the muscles is chocolate milk!! I used to take a half pint of milk to drink after I had been training for a 10k. You need to take it within 30 minutes of completing the run – so the 90 mins break before you eat for women knocks that on the head.
Once I am able to do more than a fast amble to the park I will experiment!
thank-you again.

Seen as I created a very low forum thread here is the happy one!!

Well most of you know a stone loss!! I gained some the. Lost it then gained then lost it so back to a stone loss!!

But imagine what I could have lost! But I won’t dwell as no point!

I am now making my own soups which are super tasty and low cal!

I even did a roast dinner without the roasts potatoes! Used celeriac instead.. I shaped them like potatoes .

So I’m happy . I am learning daily and this forum is the best!

Please share your high days and also we are all here for the low X X. As someone who has a long way to go.. You are no alone.. Someone here may have gone through it.. Or have great advice

Thanks guys. Have to say I am a bit nervous about what to do next …..do I reintroduce carbs slowly or should I just avoid them. I thought about keeping calories to say 1250 a day what do you all think is the way forward? I don’t want to be obsessive but don’t want to spoil my results ?

I know I probably do more but I’m human . But it can be done. Ok it’s not the loss I had planned but I think that was a problem I expected to much and set myself to fail. I now have bad stuff and no sooner had it passed my lips I regret it. So I am educating myself.

Roman wasn’t built in a day and nor will my weight loss be!

Have to say I am gagging for a drink so having a long vodka and Pepsi drink this week!

I do get very low but part of Diet is a journey. It’s not just low carbs and sugar but how food effects us. Highs.. LoWs.. How we sometimes turn to food when bored

Every day I’m learning more about myself which is helping me.

Don’t mean to sound preachy but..:: it’s
How I cope. That and you lovely peeps xxx

Brilliant thank-you for researching this I’ve read the new thread and will go back to find the clip of the programme and the graphs :-).

Lostgirl at least you have cut back drastically on the amount you drink. Just keep on diluting until eventually you may be able to get it so weak it’s half a glass a day. I’m talking weeks not days!!
Keep on going you are doing brill. A stone in the short time you have been on this diet is something to be proud of 🙂

Hi Orchid, I have just copied and pasted the info on a new thread called ‘Fat burning – different for men and women’.

You may want to google to see all the photos and graphs. They used carbo drinks in the experiment so your milk idea is probably much better than my idea!! 🙂