Laruen

Thanks!

Just to clarify what seems to be a misunderstanding, though, Taylor’s three studies all were done EXCLUSIVELY with people who were on the 600 or 800 calorie diet. Their reversals (except for one) came within the first week or two of the diet – long before any significant weight had been lost. (Success in his studies correlates with age (younger is better) and duration of diabetes (<4 years since diagnosis is better). It is his extension to weight loss, in general, that is without evidentiary support. (He has gathered anecdotal reports of people whose reversal correlates to weight loss – but because that is self-reported, accomplished without the controls of a study, and does not even include anecdotal reports from an entire population – merely the portion that chooses to self-report, it is interesting, but not scientifically valid.)

His ongoing clinical trial (the third one) is STILL using the 800 calorie diet, so any additional information from that study will still only be directly applicable to a severely calorie restricted diet. I had hoped that he had modified it to test his new theory, but he did not.

There may well be a personal fat threshold – although my personal experience, and decades of people trying to reverse diabetes merely by losing weight tends to suggest otherwise. He certainly now theorizes a PFT. But it is purely untested theory. Nothing in the data gathered from his studies so far (or the data he is currently gathering) provides (or can provide) evidentiary support for his personal fat threshold idea.

That is precisely what troubles me – and why I have chosen to follow his original theory (the one he actually tested) which is dependent on a severe caloric restriction. I don’t always demand proof before I start on a new health care protocol – but someone testing one thing and then suggests something entirely different is proven by his tests, I tend not to pay much attention. I also try to point it out, particularly if someone seems to take it as true and to be basing health care decisions on it.

Are you relying on the calorie count in the book to determine if you are under 800? (Some of them are off by quite a bit.)

If not, are you weighing and measuring everything you eat? If you just go by package labels – or by counting things? Anapple (just as an example), can range from 55 to 130 (or higher).

Hi Lucia,

I’ve been reading your posts and can really relate to the struggle going on in your head. Thank goodness it was a nightmare and not reality for you. Sometimes our dreams can seem so real (and then stay in our heads the next day).

Have you considered exploring ‘Mindfulness’ options? The Mindfulness ‘blog’ (I’m really bad at computer terminology) is at the bottom of the forum front page (told you I’m not good at describing this).

As I see it, MM’s book covers what we eat (and recipes), exercise and mindfulness. I’ve found mindfulness meditation helpful and for me it’s a major assistance on my BSD journey.

I hope the ‘brolly’ you’re holding up to get through this ‘shower’ is bright yellow…….same colour as the the sunshine and one of the colours of the rainbow that comes with the sunshine! Best wishes.

I am on day 2 of week 2. I have been religiously staying under 800, doing 10,000 steps a day. Minimal carbs and NO weight loss after initial 2 kg in the first 3 days. I have a good 20 kilos to lose and a bmi of 32 so it’s not like I don’t have a lot to lose. To ‘maintain’ my weight I should be eating 2000 calories so how can I not be losing?

So frustrated as have read the big numbers others are losing and hoped that would be me. I am aiming to lost 20 kilos this year and at this rate it is zilch:-( on 800 caloiries:-(

Did anyone else have such frustrating start?

A sad lucyjane:-(

I am totally inspired by your experience with this diet CaptainLynne! Thank you for sharing – it really makes a huge difference to my motivation to see your results so far.

I’m 5’5” and weighed 110kg 10 days ago (already down to 103.7kg) and am hoping to reach 70kg by the end of the year. My target by 16 weeks is 90kg – after that I’m happy to lose it a little more slowly!

That’s great news Alexginda! I am finding that drinking water is critical to maintaining loss on a daily basis. And like you have noticed that I used to mistake thirst for hunger. I put a little bit of lemon juice in my water to make it more palatable or turn it into plain soda water with our Soda Stream – sometimes when I drink straight water I feel unwell. My carbs are averaging a bit higher than yours but I’m managing to stick to around 800 cals. I still haven’t received the book so am simply adjusting our previous meals.

Hi Matrika
Re the video- The other thing was the two- TWO!- people who were on the diet on the show both said after three weeks they were hungry. Well we know that you don’t have to be and we stopped being hungry after a few days, with a few exceptions. So they weren’t eating enough fat and having enough water, but it gave the impression that you have to suffer for 8 weeks, which isn’t true. Annoying. Will have put people off.
Penny

Hi Matrika
It was frustrating watching that show wasn’t it. I felt they just stuck to their old positions, and the guy from diabetes Australia would not talk about the bad advice they headline on their website. Grr.
Penny

Hi Newlife
I can’t find my previous post. Did I write IKR? If so I don’t know why! What was it about?
Penny

Hi Janet
Thanks
I ve only had pale pink so far despite very low carbs – I didn’t know if ‘trace’ was good enough. Even cycling uphill round the park didn’t shift it.
Probably explains why my weight loss is so slow. But at least I keep losing.
Penny

Hashimoto- I needed a belt to hold my trousers up because I have lost 2 1/2 inches from my waist since I bought them. 😀

I have bought some chia seeds and have ordered some inulin powder ( ground chicory root )
The inulin is apparently good at getting rid of visceral fat and as a side effect is a laxative.

Over the last 10 years my weight has waxed and waned an average of 20kg. October last year and I was at “peak oil” so to speak, 97kg to be exact, I was 5kg fatter than when I had been 40 weeks pregnant 5 months previously. I felt huge, my mother in law had a photographer take photos of the family over Christmas and while everybody says how beautiful I look, too me I look pained. I use that photo when I want to gobble a large bag of chips to remind myself of the pain.
I have dieted religiously for the last 15 years and definitely had a tendency to catastrophic thinking, obviously the fat girl won that round.
This time around there has been a change in my thinking, and I think it’s because I’ve had a significant enough weight loss this week (3kg, currently at 90kg) to spur on that positive thought process. I already feel thinner and for once I’m exited to see the transformation at the end of my journey/start of my new healthy life.
I should add that I’m not a diabetic but have had insulin dependant gestational diabetes twice and have been told that if I didn’t loose some serious weight my chance of developing diabetes was 70% in the next five years. I felt like this was my last chance. I can’t wait to meet the new me, the one that can resist the temptation of a bag of cheese and onion chips, has enough energy to run with her kids, and doesn’t perpetuate the cycle of obesity. I will see you in 7 weeks love.

Hey Lucia,
We’ve all been there where we’ve given up and gone back to the way we were, but hun you’re always such a happy little duck, your posts are funny, and make great reading for all of us and inspire us to go on.

So chin up little duck, splash away in those puddles, remember it’s spring so there is lots of puddles to splash in….but remember the sun will come out tomorrow and you’ll be back on dry land.

The number of steps you’re doing each day keeps going up, you’re doing a fab job even planning your meals ahead of time, you’re doing fabulous on this diet or should say this new lifestyle……there is NO going back.

Perhaps you could think of some sort of treat when you reach 6 weeks, after all the 4 weeks have gone by. So well done you (gives you a big hug and a pat on the back)

Hugs to you
Karra

Hi sue, i find a teaspoon of ground flaxseed on my breakfast yogghurt seems to do it for me. It seems to get easier the longer you are on the diet – the poor old body has a lot to adjust to!
Seems strange to say its good news that you needed a belt to keep your trousers up but you know what I mean lol. 🙂

Hi team,
Thanks for the support and wisdom.
I am being so critical of myself as I have failed in the past. I want to be the other side of our eight weeks. I want to finish this time. I want to be a size 12 rather than fat, frumpy and a failure.
My alarm bells are going off as this is the time I get bored, and wander off the path. I haven’t done it yet. I am suprised, I am acknowledging this it the “damage” time. I am writing my thoughts and fears down here, so I can do something about them.
My mental attitude is light and fluffy, then a rain loud comes over from no where.
I just need to hold a brolly up for a short while and get past my shower. Then inwards into the sunshine. Hoping to splash through my puddles again.

I know I am talking myself though all of this, I am wanting this so much.

I have been into the kitchen and sorted the next three days meals and snacks if I need them.
I have my Fitbit watch, I am doing my steps.

I am glad that I am aware I can fail at this stage and I am doing something about it, instead of just letting failure happen.

For those of you who have followed my blog, I hope you see, that I realise I need just a little bit more will power, to get past this hiccough.

Love Lucia
Xxxx

Thanks for the info Hashimoto !

Thank you
Yesterday Day 49 weight 10st 4lbs
Blood sugar 9.8 ( a lot better than yesterday)

A very mixed day on the downside Oldie was very confused and agitated so we didn’t stay very long. He is due to see the doctor on Monday so we are hoping he can be given something to calm him down, but the nature of his mixed picture Dementia means that this is likely to happen more often and pills might not help.

On the up side I decided to go smart/casual to the Charity do and needed to wear a belt to keep my trousers up. I won a box of fruit in the raffle so very useful.

Today Day 50 weight 10st 4lbs
Blood sugar 11.2 (possibly something in the Charity do curry?)

No phone call from the Care Home, so hopefully Oldie has been more settled today. I seemed to get a lot done today, I even started knitting again. I’m knitting a Dementia muff. It felt like a Bank Holiday Monday rather than a Sunday and after a frosty start the sun shone all day. Felt really positive. Only downside is that I am constipated again! But tonight I had a sugar free liquorice stick instead of laxatives – this is getting really silly, so I am going to work my way through the fruit I won in the hopes that it keeps me “going’.
I have been drinking more fluids, but maybe I should be drinking more.

Welcome over the eight week mark :-). Congratulations, that is great weight loss, and onto the next steps of getting rid of your diabetes.
Good luck

Lucia, I found it got much easier in weeks. 4/5, the hunger pangs lessened so it didn’t feel like I was battling with cravings/hunger. When you started this journey you were eating a lot more than me so this is much more difficult for you in these early weeks but you will manage to continue because you have done the hardest part.

I hear what you are saying about difficulties and uncertainties but, like Lynne has said, I have tried many diets in the past that simply didn’t work for me. Captainlynne is now past the 16 week mark and I am not too far behind her and we are fine. Many people, me included, don’t now want to return to starchy carbs. Give it a few weeks and you will feel the same, you really will. I just look at starchy carbs now and there is no need for self control – they just remind me of how unwell I felt before this diet. You get to the point where you really don’t want the crap.

I was out with my cousin and her family yesterday and after lunch they all had enormous slabs of cake and it made me feel sick not desperate to try it. I was looking and calculating the calories and carbs – the cake was a most unpretty picture, one of my cousin’s daughters started to baulk at the massive amount of icing on her slab of cake. I. Think the look of horror on my face affected how she viewed it lol

You are a strong women, lucia, so I know you WILL do it. Last week is now last week, face tbe coming week with confidence. You won’t slip, even if at times you fear it. It’s because you fear succombing tells me you have a high awareness of potential problems and genuinely don’t. Want to fail.

Chin up, girl, and shout/sing defiance in the face of defeat 🙂 xxxx

Hi janet1973
We are here, will be going to bed soon, I have been very naughty! On the plane I ate a bar of chocolate bought for be by my daughter for my birthday! I have been good since and had roast chicken and salad tonight!
Christine

Hi Alan, Porridge is still refined oats so no, I’m afraid not. The only oats that are ok are rolled oats – ie non-refined. Refined oats – they type bought to make porridge release the carbs into the blood quickly and cause spikes in blood sugars.

Hi cherrianne
Thank you, we are ‘here’ in Tenerife, other half watching golf! I had roast chicken and salad for evening meal 😌

Hi penny
Apparently anything above neutral is good the darker the better! I’ve only managed a pale pink!
Christine

Hi Lucia,
I’m sat here in Tenerife, in the apartment while other half is watching golf!
Christine

Hi Matrika
Thanks for all the info. Sounds like you’ve been digging too
The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Jeff S. Volek, PhD, RD & Stephen D. Phinney, MD, PhD. Worth a read. Also online lectures. Jason Fung I’ve seen vids, speaks a lot of sense. I’m glad they are out there singing from the same hymn sheet. We just need the choir to join in!
I need to read about metformin as I’m on it as well.

Up the Revolution!
Eureka

Fantastic results neohdiver, it’s great that all the hard work you’ve put in has had such a dramatic positive improvement on your health.

I agree with you Eureka about people having a personal fat threshold. If it was simply a case of excess weight leading to diabetes then incidence would correlate perfectly with obesity, whereas what you actually find is that some people can be type II diabetic at a BMI of 20 and other can have a BMI of over 40 with no problems. What Taylor showed in his studies through MRI imaging was that they key to reversal of diabetes seemed to be patients losing about a gram of fat from their pancreas. I think it’s perfectly logical that this gram will be lost in different ways by different people, ie some won’t need to lose as much as other to get to this point.

However, as far as I’m aware, there has been no evidence from his studies that this fat has to be lost quickly, it’s just the amount of weight loss that correlates with clinical outcome. The problem with the slow and steady weight loss approach is not that it doesn’t work in theory, it’s that in reality we get bored and unmotivated by the lack of progress and slip back into old bad habits. With a rapid approach like this by the time you get to the point you’d normally be giving in to temptation, you’ve seen a dramatic enough change in you health / wellbeing that you have enough drive to stick to it.

Metabolically speaking there are going to be huge differences between people, and personally I think the most important thing is people finding a way that works for them, and that they can stick to long term. Hopefully by the time Taylor’s large clinical trial ends we’ll have more info that we do right now, but in reality it will probably raise just as many new questions as it answers old ones – that’s just the way science progresses. In the meantime, I think a bit of individual trial and error style testing within the rough guidelines he’s laid out is the only real way people will find their own personal solution. And I sincerely hope that everyone here does find something that works for them – whether it’s 20 or 100g of carbs a day, calorie counting or not, and a rapid or more gradual weight loss.

Thanks cherrianne for the encouragement xx

Neohdiver, thank you for the informative info regarding hypo’s. Even my diabetic nurse called them hypo’s, so not surprising with the little knowledge and ill advice given by them over the years.

Aw thanks barby. Normally I would haven given up but I knew I had to stick this one out, as I don’t want to live the rest of my life on medication. It was just a matter of tweaking things for me that would work.

I’m still struggling though to consume a lot of fat in my diet. I am below 500 cals today, had 100g of roasted ham, 100g of green beans and a bit of a salad and a small slice of toast. This afternoon I ate a 18g bag of pork scratchings, only to increase my fat intake.
So I reckon my fat intake for today is 8.3 from the pork scratchings, 0.3g from the green beans, the salad is non existent as it was only lettuce, 1 radish and about 1/8th of a cucumber and I didn’t even eat all that. The fat from the dressing is less than 1g, and 2 grams from the slice of toast so around 12g of fat and carbs around 12g. But I am absolutely stuffed and couldn’t eat another thing. Some days I’m just not hungry.

I had to cut back on the water intake as it was affecting my sleep so badly, getting up every night between 4 and 5 times, it was ridiculous, so now I’m drinking about 3 glasses of it in addition to my 3-4 cups of tea a day.

hugs
Karra

Wondered if you tried porridge ?
I was going to eat them I bought cheap bag Tesco to make with water are they ok .?
Many thanks Alan

Thanks everyone😃

Leanne – yes, I’m feeling much better in lots of ways. Perhaps not new, but definitely newer😃

Judith and Eureka – now have picture in head of that poster – not a pretty sight😱

As Bill said, we don’t need to over think things.

In the past I’ve tried to reconcile differing food related theories without success.

This time, following the BSD I’m not only losing weight, but have stabilised my fasting bloods between 4 and 4.9. I am my own experiment and am recording everything accordingly.

Eight weeks has flown by! I have lost a stone and 6 pounds and I can honestly say that I don’t really feel that I am on a diet at all. I have dieted before and put weight straight back on – this time I am changing my diet for good – so it’s not a diet, it’s a way of life now. I really like the food you can eat and the odd ‘blip’ hasn’t ruined what I have done so far. There’s a part of Michael’s book where he more or less says that if you slip up sometimes don’t beat yourself up, just get back to eating the good stuff! It’s true – I had a week towards the end of March where I was out nearly every night for a meal – complete diary overload!!! – but I chose sensibly and even though I didn’t lose a thing that week, next week I did so it didn’t ruin anything. So for me this is the way forward. The health benefits have already been more than I could have hoped for. I miss bread – I used to eat a lot – but to be honest, not as much as I thought I would. Be encouraged everyone – this works and believe me, if I can stick with it anyone can. I wish I had known about this years ago – but I am making the difference now, and one day I know I will wave goodbye to my diabetes. I am determined!

Hi. I’m on day 7 of the BDM. I have to admit I struggled on 800 cals a day so have gone up to 900 ish. Still, I have lost 1lb per day, so 7lbs down this first week. I’m really pleased, as I’ve never managed weight loss like this before; I’ve always been overweight and on diets, but I’m by far the heaviest I’ve ever been.

Today has been very difficult though:( I’ve felt lethargic, dizzy and SO irritable. It’s the irritability that has taken me by surprise. I’m drinking a lot and constantly running to the toilet!

Could the irritability be a symptom of Ketosis? How do I know if I’m in Ketosis? ( and, er, what exactly is Ketosis 😳)
Thank you.
Cherub.

Hi Orchid, Thank you for the links.Something else to explore.

Agreed Judith. Carbs are definitely on the ‘poison’ list for me!

Hi Beverley

I’ve stuck to 800 calories and not really counted carbs. But I have avoided the bad carbs and always try to go for the lowest carb option in veg. I don’t often eat fruit because even berries can spike my blood sugars.

I think most if those counting carbs use an app to record their good intake, but I use a notebook to record everything. If I did use an app I would count the carbs.

If you’ve made huge changes to what you eat then it will take your body a few days to adjust. There’s also the possibility that you have a stomach bug or something unconnected with the diet and just coincidence.

Back home from lovely Easter holidays with the kids. No fridge until Wednesday so doing my best with a cool bag outside!

B: natural yoghurt, flax seed & oil, berries and tiny bit of honey (flax seed oil needs disguising!)
D: 100g chicken, stir fry veg, tamari- garlic-ginger homemade sauce
S: 25g extra mature cheese, 20g cashew & 10g almonds.

Cals: 822 Carbs: 45g

Those results are excellent! Bet you feel like a new woman. Hoping I do as well as you’ve done. Huge congratulations captainlynne!!!

Cheese is fine as long as you count the calories.

Alan

Your comment about Subway salad bowls made me think.

When I was on holiday for a few days recently I ate those salad bowls twice, for convenience, and that is the only time I’ve gained a few pounds.

I’ve recently discovered that many cooked meats include sugar on the list of ingredients and just checked the Subway UK nutritional values. The sugar values listed as part of the carbohydrates is higher than I would expect so suspect that their cooked meats do include sugar in one form or another. Perhaps you could try cooking your own meat/chicken and making up a salad? Or eggs or cheese with salad?

Can’t advise about oats – can’t eat them, they spike my blood sugar😳

To go with your salmon, how about cauliflower rice? Veggies or salad would be ok. But I’m sure someone else will be along with other ideas. Or check out the ‘what did you eat today’ thread for ideas.

Scrambled eggs or omelettes are an easy and quite filling meal and one you can have at any time of day.

Lucia

Like you I’ve tried many diets over the years, lost weight and re-gained it (plus more).

This time there is no fee to pay, no class leader to please (or to grovel to!), no ‘slimmer of the week’, no silver ‘ticks’ or whatever reward the clubs are giving today.

This time there is good, sound advice, based on current research. There is the support and advice found on these forums. This time each and every one of us is doing this for ourselves. It might be to lose weight, to improve blood sugars, to reduce (or come off) medication. Or all of those. But we are in this together, helping each other along the path.

All we can do is take one day at a time.

For me, I think I’m treating this as an experiment or research project. I’m not normally a control freak, but do need to record everything I eat (only drink black coffee or water), blood sugars and other medical info from tests.

I see from the posts that many of those who’ve tried eating carbs either find they no longer enjoy them or that they make them ill. I have decided that there is now no place for those nasty carbs in my life. I have some challenges coming up, but will have to take each day and each challenge as it comes. I never want to go back to where I was when I started this.

As was said in Gone With the Wind – ‘Tomorrow is another day ‘. Just take each day as it comes, and remember we are here for you

Hi QuiOui
Many thanks. I don’t think some medics have any idea about diabetes either. We’re going to change that

Keep on going to rid those final kilos
Eureka

We’ll end of two days,got on scales,no loss
I think finding simple meals can be difficult ,like an easy breakfast ,I got the oats but is this ok for every day ?
If so I’ll do this ,maybe fruits to liven it up.
I’m going for subway salad bowls with various meats chicken etc for lunch just throw some olive oil on it.
Got quite bit salmon but need an easy food to add with it,all I think of are veges.
Then apples n nuts n seeds to snack
Cheers Alan (confused bloke )

Janet, I’ve answered your email.

Hi orchid
Many thanks , you just did
Eureka

Hi hashimo,

It isn’t all plain sailing. You know how to do it, but life, cravings, problems, time, inconvenience gets in the way.

I have tried previously to lose weight, only to fail, a few weeks in and put more than the weight back on.

I am happy on bs800 but I am also concious that I can fail, that I am a bit worried about it.

It does take some effort. Is it because I feel it is so successful for me, that I just don’t want my own human failings to ruin it all?

I am just going to take one day at a time. I have come so far now, I cannot and will not go back.

So keep your fingers crossed for me, and I will take tomorrow as a new venture.

Love Lucia
Xxxx

Thankyou so much desperate dieter 🙂

Hi neohdiver
Great news for you after all your hard work to reverse your diabetes. I’m not there yet, maybe I won’t ever be! But I’m trying.
Inspired by Prof Taylor’s work & Dr Michael Mosley I’ve clung on to the only hope I personally have been given. My Drs were quite useless.
I know there is no guarantee of reversing my type 2 diabetes. Both my parents were type 2, mine is probably genetic. If the best I get is really good control I’ll be happy. I know well the worst diabetes can get

I do think (having read widely about diabetes) that I have a personal fat threshold. I may not be able to reach & maintain that goal. The sylph-like figure trapped in my memory of youth may stay there forever?

The original diet with shakes was done for speed of weight loss in a monitored trial. Essential control of & consumption of calculated calories was key to that diet trial

We are eating real food in real time. This is experimental stuff on willing volunteers. We have nothing to lose except weight! I’m a happy Guinea-pig. But I can’t wait five years for results. I want, need CHANGE.
I believe excess CARBOHYDRATES are TOXIC TO ME. How low do I go? I don’t yet know. If it’s a ketogenic diet I need then fat for fuel is what I will do

This is a huge learning curve for us all. Medics ( who are willing to learn too) are trying to get this right. Some , maybe most, will have to eat crow!

The experiment continues. May we all benefit & see a victorious end

Knowledge IS power. Power of CHOICE & CHANGE.
Eureka