Hi cherrianne
Thank you, we are ‘here’ in Tenerife, other half watching golf! I had roast chicken and salad for evening meal 😌

Hi penny
Apparently anything above neutral is good the darker the better! I’ve only managed a pale pink!
Christine

Hi Lucia,
I’m sat here in Tenerife, in the apartment while other half is watching golf!
Christine

Hi Matrika
Thanks for all the info. Sounds like you’ve been digging too
The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Jeff S. Volek, PhD, RD & Stephen D. Phinney, MD, PhD. Worth a read. Also online lectures. Jason Fung I’ve seen vids, speaks a lot of sense. I’m glad they are out there singing from the same hymn sheet. We just need the choir to join in!
I need to read about metformin as I’m on it as well.

Up the Revolution!
Eureka

Fantastic results neohdiver, it’s great that all the hard work you’ve put in has had such a dramatic positive improvement on your health.

I agree with you Eureka about people having a personal fat threshold. If it was simply a case of excess weight leading to diabetes then incidence would correlate perfectly with obesity, whereas what you actually find is that some people can be type II diabetic at a BMI of 20 and other can have a BMI of over 40 with no problems. What Taylor showed in his studies through MRI imaging was that they key to reversal of diabetes seemed to be patients losing about a gram of fat from their pancreas. I think it’s perfectly logical that this gram will be lost in different ways by different people, ie some won’t need to lose as much as other to get to this point.

However, as far as I’m aware, there has been no evidence from his studies that this fat has to be lost quickly, it’s just the amount of weight loss that correlates with clinical outcome. The problem with the slow and steady weight loss approach is not that it doesn’t work in theory, it’s that in reality we get bored and unmotivated by the lack of progress and slip back into old bad habits. With a rapid approach like this by the time you get to the point you’d normally be giving in to temptation, you’ve seen a dramatic enough change in you health / wellbeing that you have enough drive to stick to it.

Metabolically speaking there are going to be huge differences between people, and personally I think the most important thing is people finding a way that works for them, and that they can stick to long term. Hopefully by the time Taylor’s large clinical trial ends we’ll have more info that we do right now, but in reality it will probably raise just as many new questions as it answers old ones – that’s just the way science progresses. In the meantime, I think a bit of individual trial and error style testing within the rough guidelines he’s laid out is the only real way people will find their own personal solution. And I sincerely hope that everyone here does find something that works for them – whether it’s 20 or 100g of carbs a day, calorie counting or not, and a rapid or more gradual weight loss.

Thanks cherrianne for the encouragement xx

Neohdiver, thank you for the informative info regarding hypo’s. Even my diabetic nurse called them hypo’s, so not surprising with the little knowledge and ill advice given by them over the years.

Aw thanks barby. Normally I would haven given up but I knew I had to stick this one out, as I don’t want to live the rest of my life on medication. It was just a matter of tweaking things for me that would work.

I’m still struggling though to consume a lot of fat in my diet. I am below 500 cals today, had 100g of roasted ham, 100g of green beans and a bit of a salad and a small slice of toast. This afternoon I ate a 18g bag of pork scratchings, only to increase my fat intake.
So I reckon my fat intake for today is 8.3 from the pork scratchings, 0.3g from the green beans, the salad is non existent as it was only lettuce, 1 radish and about 1/8th of a cucumber and I didn’t even eat all that. The fat from the dressing is less than 1g, and 2 grams from the slice of toast so around 12g of fat and carbs around 12g. But I am absolutely stuffed and couldn’t eat another thing. Some days I’m just not hungry.

I had to cut back on the water intake as it was affecting my sleep so badly, getting up every night between 4 and 5 times, it was ridiculous, so now I’m drinking about 3 glasses of it in addition to my 3-4 cups of tea a day.

hugs
Karra

Wondered if you tried porridge ?
I was going to eat them I bought cheap bag Tesco to make with water are they ok .?
Many thanks Alan

Thanks everyone😃

Leanne – yes, I’m feeling much better in lots of ways. Perhaps not new, but definitely newer😃

Judith and Eureka – now have picture in head of that poster – not a pretty sight😱

As Bill said, we don’t need to over think things.

In the past I’ve tried to reconcile differing food related theories without success.

This time, following the BSD I’m not only losing weight, but have stabilised my fasting bloods between 4 and 4.9. I am my own experiment and am recording everything accordingly.

Eight weeks has flown by! I have lost a stone and 6 pounds and I can honestly say that I don’t really feel that I am on a diet at all. I have dieted before and put weight straight back on – this time I am changing my diet for good – so it’s not a diet, it’s a way of life now. I really like the food you can eat and the odd ‘blip’ hasn’t ruined what I have done so far. There’s a part of Michael’s book where he more or less says that if you slip up sometimes don’t beat yourself up, just get back to eating the good stuff! It’s true – I had a week towards the end of March where I was out nearly every night for a meal – complete diary overload!!! – but I chose sensibly and even though I didn’t lose a thing that week, next week I did so it didn’t ruin anything. So for me this is the way forward. The health benefits have already been more than I could have hoped for. I miss bread – I used to eat a lot – but to be honest, not as much as I thought I would. Be encouraged everyone – this works and believe me, if I can stick with it anyone can. I wish I had known about this years ago – but I am making the difference now, and one day I know I will wave goodbye to my diabetes. I am determined!

Hi. I’m on day 7 of the BDM. I have to admit I struggled on 800 cals a day so have gone up to 900 ish. Still, I have lost 1lb per day, so 7lbs down this first week. I’m really pleased, as I’ve never managed weight loss like this before; I’ve always been overweight and on diets, but I’m by far the heaviest I’ve ever been.

Today has been very difficult though:( I’ve felt lethargic, dizzy and SO irritable. It’s the irritability that has taken me by surprise. I’m drinking a lot and constantly running to the toilet!

Could the irritability be a symptom of Ketosis? How do I know if I’m in Ketosis? ( and, er, what exactly is Ketosis 😳)
Thank you.
Cherub.

Hi Orchid, Thank you for the links.Something else to explore.

Agreed Judith. Carbs are definitely on the ‘poison’ list for me!

Hi Beverley

I’ve stuck to 800 calories and not really counted carbs. But I have avoided the bad carbs and always try to go for the lowest carb option in veg. I don’t often eat fruit because even berries can spike my blood sugars.

I think most if those counting carbs use an app to record their good intake, but I use a notebook to record everything. If I did use an app I would count the carbs.

If you’ve made huge changes to what you eat then it will take your body a few days to adjust. There’s also the possibility that you have a stomach bug or something unconnected with the diet and just coincidence.

Back home from lovely Easter holidays with the kids. No fridge until Wednesday so doing my best with a cool bag outside!

B: natural yoghurt, flax seed & oil, berries and tiny bit of honey (flax seed oil needs disguising!)
D: 100g chicken, stir fry veg, tamari- garlic-ginger homemade sauce
S: 25g extra mature cheese, 20g cashew & 10g almonds.

Cals: 822 Carbs: 45g

Those results are excellent! Bet you feel like a new woman. Hoping I do as well as you’ve done. Huge congratulations captainlynne!!!

Cheese is fine as long as you count the calories.

Alan

Your comment about Subway salad bowls made me think.

When I was on holiday for a few days recently I ate those salad bowls twice, for convenience, and that is the only time I’ve gained a few pounds.

I’ve recently discovered that many cooked meats include sugar on the list of ingredients and just checked the Subway UK nutritional values. The sugar values listed as part of the carbohydrates is higher than I would expect so suspect that their cooked meats do include sugar in one form or another. Perhaps you could try cooking your own meat/chicken and making up a salad? Or eggs or cheese with salad?

Can’t advise about oats – can’t eat them, they spike my blood sugar😳

To go with your salmon, how about cauliflower rice? Veggies or salad would be ok. But I’m sure someone else will be along with other ideas. Or check out the ‘what did you eat today’ thread for ideas.

Scrambled eggs or omelettes are an easy and quite filling meal and one you can have at any time of day.

Lucia

Like you I’ve tried many diets over the years, lost weight and re-gained it (plus more).

This time there is no fee to pay, no class leader to please (or to grovel to!), no ‘slimmer of the week’, no silver ‘ticks’ or whatever reward the clubs are giving today.

This time there is good, sound advice, based on current research. There is the support and advice found on these forums. This time each and every one of us is doing this for ourselves. It might be to lose weight, to improve blood sugars, to reduce (or come off) medication. Or all of those. But we are in this together, helping each other along the path.

All we can do is take one day at a time.

For me, I think I’m treating this as an experiment or research project. I’m not normally a control freak, but do need to record everything I eat (only drink black coffee or water), blood sugars and other medical info from tests.

I see from the posts that many of those who’ve tried eating carbs either find they no longer enjoy them or that they make them ill. I have decided that there is now no place for those nasty carbs in my life. I have some challenges coming up, but will have to take each day and each challenge as it comes. I never want to go back to where I was when I started this.

As was said in Gone With the Wind – ‘Tomorrow is another day ‘. Just take each day as it comes, and remember we are here for you

Hi QuiOui
Many thanks. I don’t think some medics have any idea about diabetes either. We’re going to change that

Keep on going to rid those final kilos
Eureka

We’ll end of two days,got on scales,no loss
I think finding simple meals can be difficult ,like an easy breakfast ,I got the oats but is this ok for every day ?
If so I’ll do this ,maybe fruits to liven it up.
I’m going for subway salad bowls with various meats chicken etc for lunch just throw some olive oil on it.
Got quite bit salmon but need an easy food to add with it,all I think of are veges.
Then apples n nuts n seeds to snack
Cheers Alan (confused bloke )

Janet, I’ve answered your email.

Hi orchid
Many thanks , you just did
Eureka

Hi hashimo,

It isn’t all plain sailing. You know how to do it, but life, cravings, problems, time, inconvenience gets in the way.

I have tried previously to lose weight, only to fail, a few weeks in and put more than the weight back on.

I am happy on bs800 but I am also concious that I can fail, that I am a bit worried about it.

It does take some effort. Is it because I feel it is so successful for me, that I just don’t want my own human failings to ruin it all?

I am just going to take one day at a time. I have come so far now, I cannot and will not go back.

So keep your fingers crossed for me, and I will take tomorrow as a new venture.

Love Lucia
Xxxx

Thankyou so much desperate dieter 🙂

Hi neohdiver
Great news for you after all your hard work to reverse your diabetes. I’m not there yet, maybe I won’t ever be! But I’m trying.
Inspired by Prof Taylor’s work & Dr Michael Mosley I’ve clung on to the only hope I personally have been given. My Drs were quite useless.
I know there is no guarantee of reversing my type 2 diabetes. Both my parents were type 2, mine is probably genetic. If the best I get is really good control I’ll be happy. I know well the worst diabetes can get

I do think (having read widely about diabetes) that I have a personal fat threshold. I may not be able to reach & maintain that goal. The sylph-like figure trapped in my memory of youth may stay there forever?

The original diet with shakes was done for speed of weight loss in a monitored trial. Essential control of & consumption of calculated calories was key to that diet trial

We are eating real food in real time. This is experimental stuff on willing volunteers. We have nothing to lose except weight! I’m a happy Guinea-pig. But I can’t wait five years for results. I want, need CHANGE.
I believe excess CARBOHYDRATES are TOXIC TO ME. How low do I go? I don’t yet know. If it’s a ketogenic diet I need then fat for fuel is what I will do

This is a huge learning curve for us all. Medics ( who are willing to learn too) are trying to get this right. Some , maybe most, will have to eat crow!

The experiment continues. May we all benefit & see a victorious end

Knowledge IS power. Power of CHOICE & CHANGE.
Eureka

Hi Hasimoto
It’s a great feeling isn’t it? Reading the forum 8 weeks ago , I was a little sceptical that I’d be able to finish 8 weeks…now I’m looking forward to continuing for another 8. Your posts are always really encouraging, you always manage to say just the right thing and are so helpful to everyone . Please keep up the good work.
Much joy

Ditto, as to the calories given. I made the Chicken with Spicy Lentils today (followed the recipe exactly as written, for the first time). Total calories (for 2 servings, theoretically) 1088 calories – or 544 calories per serving. The book lists the calorie count as 470. Anything that uses “handsful” as a measure – or that says use one {insert vegetable or meat item here} is not going to be accurate as to calories because calories depend on the precise quantity.

I’m splitting it into 4 servings. My experience with this meal is that 1/3 to 1/4 is a generous amount.

If you are trying the diet because you are trying to replicate Dr. Taylor’s successful studies with the 800 calorie diet, it wold be worth your while to calculate everything. If you just generally want to lose weight – don’t worry about it. A few calories more or less won’t interfere with weight loss as long as you’re in the ballpark. A lot of people are successful in lowering BG and losing weight despite the imprecision in the book. My goals are slightly different (since I’ve already successfully controlled my BG for 6 months and lost 50 lbs). I am interested in pursuing remission. For that, I want to replicate the Taylor studies – which means I need precision.

Fantastic job, Lynne!

Welcome to the veterans club desperate dieter! 🙂

Wow! Well done Lynne
Your progress is amazing.I finished 8 weeks today and am 2 stone down , but have another few stone to lose yet. I’m so pleased for you and hope I can be just as determined. You are an inspiration, thank you . Much joy

Just a word of caution.

Dr. Taylor’s work is what inspired me to start this diet – so I am here because of his work.

Unfortunately, I believe he is now extending his declarations about reversing diabetes beyond the strength of his studies. His studies (2 of them completed and one ongoing) were based on 600-800 calorie diets consisting of shakes + up to 200 grams of real food (primarily low carb veggies). He constructed that diet based on a 97% remission rate for diabetics post-bariatric surgery. The theory had to do with a dramatic decrease in calories to a level far below maintenance being key to losing the fat around the liver and pancreas.

He now talks about personal fat thresholds, and weight loss being the key -at whatever rate is convenient for you. This is the really old (successful for only a very few) theory (10% loss should bring your blood glucose under control) – beefed up to make it personal (i.e. failures are explained because you just haven’t lost enough weight to get to your PFT), and a more significant weight loss (he suggests generally 15% – again, you just didn’t lose enough before). Nothing in his studies supports that – and since I’ve lost nearly double what he suggests is sufficient with no change in insulin resistance I am a huge skeptic of his new (unsupported) insights.

That triggered me to do more research. What I have found supports his studies – that there is something in the 800 calorie diet (and/or fasting) that triggers reversing the diabetic spiral, in part by decreasing the glycogen stores in the liver. That same effect is not achieved (for most) by merely reducing weight.

That research is why I am losing the last 19 lbs using the fast 800 diet. It is consistent with Dr. Taylor’s actual studies, not his current theories (unsupported by quality data).

Prior to shifting to the fast 800 diet, combined with 16:8 fasting, I could not tolerate more than 20 grams of carb in a sitting and maintain normal blood glucose. I’ve been regularly testing my limits. This past week (nearly 2 weeks into the changed diet) I was able to eat 33 grams in a sitting with a normal BG response. My fasting BG levels have been dropping, and I’ve even had a couple of days where I stayed below 5.8 the entire day. Either I coincidentally hit my PFT at the exact time I changed my diet OR it is the severe calorie restriction and/or fasting that is shifting something. I believe the latter.

Hi Lostgirl
High five. ✋

Hi Narisya, I love dates – or I did!! But I would advise staying off those sweet recipes until you have reached your goal. Then make some if you can’t resist – but freeze the rest so you are not too tempted!! 🙂

Eureka, I smiled at your post too!

Lynne is absolutely amazing and a real poster girl for the BSD!! 🙂

Noella it is worth reading Cherrianne and Bill1954’s posts. They had unexpected rises in fbs about four weeks in, it lasted for a couple of weeks and then dropped to a normal range. Hiccups at this stage seem to be the norm, but along with what has happened to Lynne and several others you can see the end result of following this diet is absolutely amazing for your blood sugars! 🙂

Exercise is not required to lose weight or gain control of diabetes. It takes a heck of a lot of exercise to burn off a pound. What exercise is better for is decreasing insulin resistance by providing more storage places for glycogen – but that’s a long term goal and doesn’t significantly impact the short term blood glucose control or weight loss.

I’m the same height, nearly the same starting weight (89.3 kg). My diabetes has been in control since 3 days after diagnosis, solely by a change in diet. Starting the day of diagnosis I limited my carbs to what my meter would tolerate, without going over 7.8. For me, that works out to about 20 grams of carbs in a 3 hour period (which I learned by excessive testing . . . my poor fingers!) Since October, I’m pretty sure I can still count on 2 hands the number of readings above 7.8

Without increasing exercise, I also went from 89.3 kg to 66.4 kg (since October 2), by limiting my calorie intake to 1200 calories/day. I do climb stairs to get to my office – but I was doing that before and have not increased stairs or walking or anything else by way of exercise. I sit all day most days (between arriving and leaving). On weekends, I walk a pathetic 2-3000 steps.

That’s (nearly) all before the BSD. Depending on the flavor of the BSD you’re following, your weight loss results may be even better! (If your immediate goal is to control blood glucose, you will need to pay careful attention to the recipes you choose. Many of the recipes are too high in carbohydrates for me to eat – although the weight I’ve lost, combined with fasting and an even lower calorie consumption, seems to have finally changed something. I managed to eat 33 carbs in one meal and keep my BG below 6.2 at about 2 weeks into the BSD 800 + 16:8 fasting.

Hi Neohdiver, another fabulous informative post from you. I am starting to put together some tips for starters which a few of us are working on. I have copied and pasted your post to my notes so it can be added when the thread notes are completed. You will be given the credit for the posting!! 🙂

10th day today. If I resume :

For me, 5 pounds less and the blood sugar is now 6.8 (it was, at his highest, 7.9 . I am considered prediabetic) My husband who his diabetic has lost 10 pounds and after some ups and downs his sugar level is tending to stabilization (between 6 et 7). Before this program, his sugar level was sometimes at 15. It is very motivating to follow this plan together.

Just been reading your story Kara and I was so impressed with your determination in sticking to the regime without any results in over 2 weeks, most people would have given up before now. It will encourage a lot of others to stick at it, now you finally have some losses.

Well done and hope you lose lots more soon, you will certainly have a firmer sleeker figure with all that exercise.

Hi olliej
Just get back on the wagon. You know how to steer it
Eureka

It’s amazing how grot people seem to feel after eating any starchy carbs. I’m keeping clear!! 🙂

Hi Beverley,
There have been people who’ve lost weight just on the 800 cals per day. So you will lose weight if you stick to that and avoid the easily digestible carbs mentioned in the book ( potatoes, rice, pasta etc). Best to make sure your carbs come from pulses, legumes, veg, the more complex carbs that contain plenty of fibre.
I think you’ll find that most of us who are counting carbs are doing it to bring blood sugars under control. Sometimes if people are worried about about weight loss stalling we might ask them to check their carb intake as it is possible to have a high carb intake on 800 cals if you don’t eat from a wide range of foods.
While you are waiting for your book you could download the articles from the Daily Mail, search for the 8 week blood sugar diet. That will have enough info and the meal plans to get you started 🙂

Hi Lostgirl
This is what I mean. We need to chat a bit for the sake of our mind, body & soul. Stuff happens & it throws us a curve ball ( phrase party). This diet is tough. You are trying hard to cope with STUFF! You need to concentrate on YOU just now.

Little bit at a time is your way to go at the moment. Small victories. You are getting there well done
Keep on keeping on
Eureka

Karra,

Just wanted to echo earlier advice you were given. 5.2 is NOT a hypo. You may have hypo feelings (because of the contrast to what your body is used to), but 5.2 is actually near the top of normal blood sugar ranges (when not influenced by recently eaten foods). Trying to keep your BG above 5.2 will sabotage your efforts to achieve control of your BG. Rest assured that as long as you are in normal BG ranges (above around 3.9), it is not an actual hypo and you will be better off (long term) if you don’t feed it carbohydrates.

As to why you are not losing – building muscles increases the glycogen they store. To store one gram of glycogen, requires 3 grams of water. In addition, dramatically increasing muscle activity injures the muscles, causing inflammation. Inflammation retains water. So the dramatic shift in muscle activity, plus redoubling your efforts when you didn’t initially experience weight loss, might well keep you at the same place on the scale. Aside from water, you are certainly losing weight. It is likely just that you are retaining more water to repair those muscles and support new glycogen storage.

Glad to hear you’re seeing the scale change – but thought it might still help to see an explanation of why it might not have been moving before.

thanks Lynne 🙂

Wow