Thank you so much for your prompt reply Esnecca…I know from your posts you are the queen of fermenting! I have tasted it and I am very pleased with it. My next question is…what is the best amount to eat daily and is it better on an empty stomach?

Thank you again for your help.

Love
Mary
xxx

Isn’t it silly that we are so self critical when it comes to height, as that is something we simply can’t change or impact in any real way. Yes, us ‘shorties’ can wear heals and those taller amongst us can wear flats and slouch, but we all know these are just ‘smoke and mirrors’. I would love to be tall and willowy, but was doomed to be short and over the years I have come to accept this fact and embrace it.

What is important though, is we’ve all taken control and made a huge change where we could, by changing our bulk and our health. And you know, now that I have lost a goodly portion of body mass, I think I look much less dumpy and so there is perhaps the illusion that I look a little taller for that too.

Allie – glad things have settled with your weight now and thanks for the invitation to pop in on the Phoenix thread – I might well do just that.

Have a good w/e everyone.

SueBlue

Lose 18 in 2018 is so doable and I know you will do it! There is no way you’re giving up with the support of this thread behind you. There are still a few on here who are going to achieve their goal this year and I am going to support every single one of you. To me, you’re all friends and we are on this journey together. I am at the finish line but I am waiting for you and will help you over the finish line and then we can all stand on the podium together and get our gold medals!

Morning all,

today -0.8lb, 😀

Picked at some pizza yesterday, but trying not to be derailed. Need not to be all or nothing.

Have a good one today.

x

How are you all getting on, have you had a good week?
I am measuring myself once a week, when I get up on a Sunday, can’t wait to see the results tomorrow.
I have been weighing myself each morning though and was getting a little dispondent not having lost for a couple of days, then this morning another 2lbs off, yay! I feel like dancing on the rooftops (think that might be a mixed metaphor but it’s how I feel).
I’ll let you know about the cms tomorrow.
Have a good day everyone!

Abbado

Only just read your post- had internet connection problems. You sound so positive for your new start on 26th January and I know that you will be able to achieve your goal with such a positive attitude. You’ve done so well on your journey and you will easily get that 13 kg off by chipping away. This way of eating works! I will enjoy following your journey on this thread and will be right behind you cheering you and any others still here working hard to achieve their dream. 2018 is going To be your year!

Cathy

Seasidenana
Happy Birthday/Happy anniversary

Your post made me feel so happy and actually brought a tear to my eye. I can tell how happy you are and I am so thrilled for you. How fantastic to be starting a new life with your lovely new fiancé and being slim and so happy. You will easily get the last 7lb off for your wedding and honeymoon! Congratulations to you! I can remember quite distinctly our early posts to each other and wow we’ve come a long way. I am maintaining well and am going to lose 3lb in February so I’ve got a bit of extra slack for high days and holidays! My son gets married in June so that will be a massive celebration!

please keep posting with your news both BSD and wedding. What a fantastic thread this has been for us all.

This thread made such a difference to my weight loss and I am so happy to have shared my journey with such lovely, supportive friends.

Keep plodding everyone who is still working hard – this will be the year you achieve your goal!

Cathy

Thanks Guys, yes Allie everyone needs to find the right combination for their own brain lol, because most of any new routine is determined by the brain really.

Mine is a bit shit, just saying.

I’ve found this website quite interesting https://www.dietdoctor.com/ and may try a few recipes, I’ll report back as to how they go…

Hello everyone I would like to add my voice to all the thanks others have given to you Theodora, you have helped so much with your inspiration and advice. Thank you to all the January 2017 starters as well as we have made this journey together and celebrated our success.

I started on 21 January because it’s my birthday on 19 January and I had a night out to celebrate first. I did 8 weeks on no alcohol and 800 calories, low carb. After that I did low carb and under 1200 calories for several months. After that I met my husband to be, so the weight loss slowed down due to drinking lots of wine on dates! Since my start date I lost a total of 43 lbs. in the last couple of months my weight has been stable, which bodes well for future maintenance, but I’m still 7 lbs from goal. I have been gaining and losing the same 1lb for weeks !

Today I’m starting another round of 8 weeks 800 calorie low carb and no alcohol. I need to detox, and I need to finally make my goal in time for the wedding. Yesterday I tried on my wedding dress, made by my lovely friend I’ve known since I was 15. She cried when she saw me in it ! The dress is quite unique and also top secret!

(Husband to be was banished to the pub while we did the fitting). The dress looks lovely, but will be lovelier still with 7 lbs off !

My lovely fiancé is going to join me on the no alcohol front, and he quite often joins me with low carb menus as
well. Hopefully we will be “beach ready” by the time we go on honeymoon. The wedding is 21 April. We fly to St
Lucia a week later.

Best of luck to everyone on this WOE for 2018. Let’s hope we all finally reach our goals, and those already there keep going. It’s been so inspiring to make this journey with you all.

Jackie – Yes, from a previous post I think we are similar heights. I’m 5′ 2″ and my BMI range goes from 7st 3lbs to 9st 11lbs (approx. 46kg to 62kg). Even as a slim 19 year old I was never 7st 3lbs. My natural weight then was between 8st 4lbs and 8st 7lbs (52kg – 54kg).

I’m a whisker away from the top of my healthy weight range. Once there I’ll aim for 9st. Then, I’ll see.
I’ve also been measuring my body fat & visceral fat levels, so these, and my waist measurement, will help me determine my goal weight. More recently, I’ve been concentrating on getting a better balance into my diet – as you say being healthy, in the end, is what it’s all about.

I know you’re on top of all these things, Jackie. You’ve done so well, and I’ve no doubt you’ll get the cholesterol sorted, too.

NB Your doctor sounds great.

Hi, I haven’t continued studying this week either, as I got bored. Must make the effort this next week

Thanks ladies, I do try very hard to be tall and proud, but after a childhood of being told by my parents to hide it and not stick out and teenage of being bullied for it at school (I was 5 ft 11in at the age of 13) sometimes it just catches me unawares. If I see a picture of myself with friends maybe and am head and shoulders above them, or when I see lovely jackets like the YSL one posted on another thread that I could never wear because my body is too long. It always used to annoy me that the models that wear these clothes are my height but the ones sold in the shops seem to be for people who are about 5ft 6in.

Never mind, just have to make one myself, that’s why I learnt to sew in the first place, I just stopped when I was working because I didn’t have the time. Now retired so should have the time, although it doesn’t always seem to work like that!

Hi Theo I’ve not continued that course this week but I have it permanent access from last year so no need to rush. I have to say that I’m not enjoying it so far I was hoping it would improve!

I dry-toast a mix of sunflower hearts, pumpkin seeds, pine nuts and sesame seeds then use them as a healthy alternative to croutons in salad
SSB

Theodora I believe the curse (definitely a curse) is “May you live in interesting times.”

Spread over the past three days:
1. We went to Cronulla beach a couple of days ago to walk along the esplanade which was lovely. It was hot but not unbearably so, but the UV was high and I was worried that I or my daughter would get sunburned despite our care – but we didn’t.
2. I spent an hour this morning gardening before it got too hot, Tim mowed the lawn, and it’s looking tidy.
3. Recently we’ve been working on the stuff in the garage, we gave some to charity, got council to do a pick-up of junk, and yesterday swept it out and tidied the remainder like bikes and the lawn mower. All done.

When cooking roast butternut pumpkin (for my husband, I don’t like it) I roast the seeds also with a little oil and salt. Delicious, with shells still on! The kids love them too. I don’t know if unshelled would work for bigger pumpkins or if they weren’t fresh.

That is so badass of you, Mary. You didn’t let two questionable outings deter you and now the third time looks to be the charm. Well done!

As far as whether it’s ready that’s a matter of taste more than anything. If the cabbage is translucent or at least more yellow than its original green, if it’s soft but not slimey and most importantly, if it’s sour enough for your preference, then go ahead and call it. If you want to double-check with a more objective determinant of whether the kimchi is properly fermented, get a pH strip and test the brine. It needs to be solidly on the acidic side. The dividing line is a 4.6 pH. If your strips report acidity levels below 4.6, you can rest assured that you’ve cracked the kimchi code had a successful ferment. It sounds just right from your description, though. I think you can move it to the fridge and chow down with confidence.

Congratulations on your new bouncing baby billions of probiotics! 😀

Me too, I love toasted pepitas, sprinkled over salad gives a lovely crunch. Mind you, I’m getting so weird I ‘activated’ a batch yesterday prior to toasting. Oh and I don’t use oil, just dry toast them in a pan until popping.

It is the little things in life that should be fully embraced and treasured. Not to say that cartwheels and loud cheering is needed over ever little event or moment but to feel some happiness/fulfilment for ourselves and others.
I feel from a male prospective that we more often than not totally miss this understanding and often misread what we should do and what we end up normally doing.
We may label somethings as boring but essential it’s these moments that allow us to be us, comfortable in our skin and sleep peacefully when our heads hit the pillow.
So I now too allow myself to be a little ‘boring’

Waffle over.

Hi Victoria, it’s wonderful to meet another “rangey” lady! Congratulations on being half way to your target. We so
often speak in “stones” on this forum, but those figures can be a little misleading with discrepancies in height.
I always find that “current BMI” is a much better indicator of where we are on our journey. When I was a child, being
taller than average made me self conscious, but all that changed at about the age of 14. By my late teens into
my early 20’s I was even able to make extra spending money doing some modeling, nothing that would ever be
considered a “career path”, but much appreciated at the time:) We get dealt the genetic hand that we are dealt,
so wear it with pride. A goal of 12 stone sounds very sensible to me for your height. I’m at 137-138lbs, which
is exactly in the middle of the healthy range for me, and at that, my o/h still thinks I’ve gone too far. I look thin
to slender, so I’m stopping here. The most marvelous part of it all is that I feel 40 years younger. What’s a bit
of loose skin, after all??

Hey, Theo, good to catch up with you today! Your Mother sounds a lot like mine. I guess this shouldn’t
really surprise us though, we are alike in too many ways to count 🙂 I’m definitely going to try the lemon
steeping suggestion. Using the coffee mug to keep my hands warm is not working out all that well…after
3 cups, my stomach starts to rebel! I’m glad everything has steadied for you too. I really can appreciate the
lovely long walks you take with your o/h and the boys, after the wonderful picture you posted. Enjoy your
weekend..If I know you, it will be filled with friends and laughter, and a glass or two 🙂 Wish we could barge
in on your social life, it sounds just about perfect to me 🙂 🙂 🙂 Oh, glad you liked my lace flats! It seems that
we have the same hair style, too. Surprise, surprise!!!!

Have a great weekend, everyone.

Allie

Aww Jackie, what lovely, simple, every day positives. I think that sometimes we look too hard, fail to find, and ignore the lovely things that are staring us in the face.😊

And trust me, there is far more about me that is boring than interesting – but don’t the Chinese have a proverb (or maybe a curse?) about “interesting”? So, frankly, I’m happy to settle for “boring”😉

Victoria, how absolutely wonderful to be 5’11”. Stand tall and proud😊

My lovely daughter-in-law is the same fantastic height as you – she jokes that she only married my son because he was the only guy she ever dated whom she knew she could marry wearing stilletoes and still look small and dainty, which she did, though she towered above her dad – but to get back to the point, height is a gift, so enjoy!!!😀 Wish someone had granted me that gift but, at 68, I guess my growing days are over and I’ll have to settle for the paltry 5’4″ I measure these days (used to be 5’5″ so I’m known as the
incredible shrinking woman – in more ways than one 😱)

I repeat – stand tall and proud 😊

So happy to have seen this post! I’m completing day 5 of week 2 and first week lost 9.5lb and was obviously delighted… this week just 1.5lb as of this morning. I definitely feel different… I wore a dress today that I haven’t in months, as an example. But I’m glad to see that it is a common thing and not just me. I knew it wouldn’t come off at that rate constantly… but, I’d hoped it wouldn’t slow as soon as 2 weeks.
But, I have faith and am doing all the right things. It’s going to be pretty impossible to continue what I’m doing, without losing weight.

Have a great weekend everybody!!

Hi Alliecat, if you feel Amazonian at 5ft 7 what does the make me at 5ft 11? I won’t sensibly get below 11st 7lbs, and probably 12st. Worrying about my height, and thinking I had to hide it, is what started all these problems so many years ago. This time I’m going to enjoy being slim and tall.

Allie, nowhere is it written that the water has to be cold! I often pour boiling water onto several lemon slices and let it brew for a few minutes when the weather is cold, then Ive got a nice warm drink. And when weather is really cold I can never bring myself to drink water straight front tap – brrrrr – so once I drink one glass, I refill and let it stand so that it gets to room temp before next glass is due.

Pleased to hear you have stopped that worrying decline and are holding steady. And nothing wrong with Amazons – have always wanted a few extra inches in height 😉

Sunshine-girl, I am having a similar issue at the moment if I want to eat fresh seasonal and local. I know freezers are not super common in France, but I am eating out of my freezer at the moment. I have asparagus, broccoli, green beans, courgette, etc. that I froze when they were in season. For fresh veg, I am eating a fair bit of cabbage at the moment. One thing that we are lucky to have here is a lot of different types of sprouts. Mung bean sprouts work well for cooked dishes; quite nice in stirfry with baby corn, but also nice in things like curries. I can get them in the supermarket, but you can also sprout your own on the counter quite easily. I am also about to start a batch of mixed sprouts to be used in salads. On the fruit side we are lucky to have local kiwifruit at the moment although they will soon be finished. I’m enjoying the odd one of those.
A few more weeks and there should start to be some salad greens and mustard greens coming available, especially if you have growers nearby that use polytunnels. I have been known to consume quite large quantities of nettles in the spring as they come up before a lot of the garden vegetables and are very nutritious.

Hello, Izzy, and welcome home! You have no doubt seen all of the new faces here. “small steps are big enough
for me” is a marvelous saying, definitely a “keeper” 🙂 I think it’s destined to become a classic. I’m one of those
all or nothing personality types myself, so I went after my goals like a crazy zealot. It only took me 17 years to
get started! However, I managed to lose 50+% of myself, and have maintained my losses for 9 months. We’re
all different however, and you clearly know what is best for you. I’m looking forward to getting to know you…
We all have something to add to this wonderful forum.

Best wishes,

Allie

Hello my lovely ladies….this is aimed at Esnecca, Luvtocook, Allie and anyone else who is very savvy about Kimchi.

I have made my third batch. The first one, was tough and never seemed to ferment. The second smelled and tasted awful. This third one smells like Kimchi and has given bubbles and sought to free itself from the jar. The cabbage part of the Kimchi looks very wilted…however, I tasted a little bit and it seems lovely.

My question is this…how long do I allow it to ferment (it has been 5 days now) before I transfer it to the fridge, also…when I do, should I have it on a plate in case it “overflows” again? I am so excited about having made this (I think successfully).

You are all so knowledgeable about food and recipes I just know you can help me and I thank you in advance.

Hope you are all well.

Lots of love
Nonna Mary
xxxxx

Well done Zolou, you must be feeling great! I’m glad you mentioned the courgette pattut idea, was just sitting here trying to think what to make today! Have been eating so much cabbage and cauliflower and I need a change!
Verano, I’ve also been making the garlic roast mushrooms from the website, they are phenomenal! And i can recommend the cabbage ‘steaks’ to you both, the accompanying sauce is so, so good. I use an eschalot instead of an onion for a more delicate taste but any way you make it will be delicious!

Congratulations to all of you glorious, petite ladies in the 8 stone bracket! At 5’7″, I feel like an Amazon in your
midst!

CC, I’m having difficulty drinking my usual 3 liters of water, too. This is a particularly cold winter here in New
England, and picking up that cold glass gives me a chill 🙂 Really need to do it however, because I feel better when
I do, and it also plays havoc with the scales when I slack off!

Thank you Sunny, everything remains stable at the present time. You are so incredibly close to where you’d
like to be, you can only be days away…..We all know that you will do it! When you are ready, come out to play
with us on the “Phoenixes..” thread. Esnecca always keeps us guessing, we never know what she’ll turn up
with next 🙂 🙂 🙂

Have a marvelous weekend, everyone!

Allie

I can’t believe you have a boring anything Theodora!

Positives

1)nice words about my hair (thankyou ladies!)

2) My sons really good mood appreciating things I did for him

3) sat and read book in sunshine (enforced inactivity as waiting in for stuff)

4) how pleased son is watching a ‘Big Cats’ documentary right now!

Hi Articfox, weird isn’t it but at least we seem to be shape shifting in the right direction. How is your horse?

Than you Kazzee xx

Thanks Mokovex x

Hi Marylin, I’m pleased to read you are enjoying good health now. Reading your story it makes it all the more important we continue on this WOL to protect ourselves. Your diagnosis at the time must have been shocking and scary. My disease affects both kidneys and is called ADPKD it is not rare as genetic disorders go and some people live their whole life unaffected. The kidneys push on all the other organs from the groin to the lungs giving a ‘pregnant looking’ shape. I’m so ready for Thursday now, I just want it over xx

Hi everyone! Some new faces here! JGwen, you are entirely correct, it IS all about the marketing. One of
my closest friends used to be VP of Human Resources and worked at Saks Fifth Avenue in Manhattan.
She was in the rag trade for a lot of years, and this is indeed her explanation.

Essie, I just realized you must have had to go thru the jjill site and repost my wardrobe for Theo and Kazz
be able to see “the goods”….That’s an act of friendship my girl, and I thank you kindly for it 🙂 Sometimes my links
work, and sometimes they don’t! But, onto the REAL NEWS….THAT INCREDIBLE houndstooth Valentino jacket!
It gives me palpitations…don’t you realize that Theo and I are “old”? Can’t wait to see it on you! (I hope you’ll
wear the black silk underwear again for the photo shoot. I love that part!) Are the colllar and cuffs velvet? And
just look at the covered buttons, Theo! Impeccable! I always have trouble with a set in waist…too long waisted.
Will be looking forward to the next installment, ladies 🙂 🙂 🙂

Marie123 – I am a bit hazy on kg to stone, I check it and then forget, anyhow, it turns out I am about 9st 3. And 57kg is about 9stone. Apparently I could lose another 10kg (down to 7stone 2) nd still be in a healthy BMI range, but I am definitely not up for that! What would be left of me?! Although I never thought I’d be this small, so I guess as long as I eat healthily I won’t wprry too much if it goes down more. Like people have been saying, the new ‘normal’ is bigger than the old normal.

So glad you had a good birthday meal Mary. Hope the extra few pounds come off very soon. With luck you’ll get a chance to wear the dress somewhere nice before it’s much too big for
you!

Hi Flick, I have had some weird blips up lately too, some which could be easily explained, but others not at all. I have lost 10kg, but I’m losing and gaining the same kg over and over at the moment. However, I did have to pull my belt in another notch and I actually had to use a belt yesterday on one of my nice pairs of work slacks that I couldn’t do up when I started this. They were looser than they were even 2 weeks ago, so I’m hoping that means that I’m finally losing inches around my waist, which wasn’t happening when I was losing all the weight.

Yet again all your posts are so uplifting.
Love the haircut JackieM. I wouldn’t mind looking like her either!
Ahh Theo your mum sounds like a very determined lady. Think you obviously take after her!
SunnyB hope you enjoy/ed your curry. Just interested but how long does it take you to drive to Turkey? Sounds like an interesting trip.

My three, although a bit late…..
1. Still enjoying the sun and the smell of the ocean although the clock is ticking with just a few more days left.
2. So pleased to be missing the awful UK weather.
3. Needing to pinch myself because my grandson is 10 tomorrow. Double figures so soon where has the time gone.

Sounds very sensible Izzy!

Zolou I think you need to salt the courgettes and leave for an hour or so then squeeze out the liquid then they won’t be as wet. And maybe just one egg. Think it may be a little bit of trial and error.

S-g I came across a cauliflower hummus recipe today but I’m not sure if that isn’t just one step too far!!! I now use shredded white cabbage instead of rice with curry and I find that works really well. Good luck with jiggling your veggies about.

Got properly started on Tuesday the 9th and lost about 5lb’s so far which is great because I’m targetting myself on 4lb/month because I don’t want to feel any pressure. Anything more is a nice bonus! and obviously we always lose more in the first weeks typically too. I’m not counting calories – just eating good old BSD food, nuts for a snack on the go if I’m hungry, in addition to make it a life change rather than a diet I’m simply not being overly strict. My daughter had a birthday and I had a slice of cake. I just made sure it was one small slice in an otherwise BSD friendly day. I’m still having a hot chocolate once per day, occasional small amounts of sweet potato. All of these things alongside a low and achievable target has made this much easier than I expected to get back into the swing.

Fingers crossed I can keep at it… I’ve been keeping up with my 10000 steps per day as well. I’m being gentle with myself mostly as I have ongoing issues with anxiety that I’m still struggling with. I don’t want a slice of cake to become something else I can beat myself up about.

Small steps are big enough for me.

Glad things have settled for you Theo and you are happy with how your weight is now. Hope the family issues are resolving themselves as well. Really pleased to read on the other thread, that your Mum’s results at hospital were all good. I’ll think of you when I have my glass of wine at dinner this evening.

Thanks for the kind words CC – I tend to eat using a 16:8 format and it definitely makes a difference for me losing. I’m convinced it’s that, good hydration and keeping the carbs sub 20g, that gives me results. Hope you’ll soon be where you want to be, I’m sure you’ll do it no problem – will look forward to hearing you’ve got there.

Like you, CC, I weigh daily, as I also find it keeps me from doing anything stupid – always a bit uncomfortable when in situations that mean I can’t weight myself. I’m so happy with how I look and feel now, I’m determined never to go back and I definitely don’t want to ever have to buy large baggy clothes again! So for me it’s essential to know what’s going on with the scales on a regular basis. The really great thing though, is we all have the tools to control and maintain and if there are any slips or blips, we know we can deal with any fall out quickly and effectively before things get out of hand.

Keep going everyone, we’re doing great!

In the UK standard sizes are redefined periodically, so that people can kid themselves they are smaller than they are. I now wear a UK10, going into UK8, but I know that – as you say Theo – a few years back it would have had to be a larger size for sure.

Clothes sizes have definitely changed. When I got married, I weighed a little under 8st (110lbs to be exact) and wore a size UK12, which is what my wedding dress was. I now weigh 8st again, and my wedding dress fits me absolutely perfectly, just as it did on my wedding day. But what size do I wear these days? A UK8 (could even get away with a 6 in trousers) – that is TWO WHOLE SIZES SMALLER for the same weight than it was 49 years ago!!!

I LOVE pumpkin seeds (aka pepitas) Luvtcook! They are one of my standard go-to foods for topping yogurt, salads, curries and other stews, and snacking on — your idea to toast them sounds great — they have a lot of fiber, protein and wonderful flavor.
If you travel to Scandinavia they are on every breakfast table — yum — with unsweetened “red fruits” (lingonberries and more) just amazing!
Just one word of warning— don’t put them in yogurt overnight — I tried a pre-made/overnight yogurt parfait with pepitas and the pepitas turned soggy and disgusting. Yuk! That went into the trash!

My positives:–

1) Took my 93 year old mother for a hospital out-patient appt. with her physiotherapist this morning as a follow up to her broken and dislocated shoulder (last September) and the lovely physio has signed her off, saying that very few of her patients manage to get as much movement and strength back after such a traumatic injury. So well done Mum (she’s worked really hard at the exercises, bless her😊)

2) Following that appt, had to take her for a chest xray, but that has come back clear😊

3) It’s Friday, and I allow myself wine on a Friday😀😀😀

PS Jackie, loving that little elfin cut – had one just like it years ago and adored it, then wore it really long for years, now just a boring (but very easy to look after) bob.

Hi SunnyB
Well done getting the Christmas lbs off. You’ll get to 8 stone before long. I am struggling to lose the 2lb i put on over Christmas, a combination of feeling hungry and feeling cold. I am determined to get back to133 (currently 134) and hope to achieve 130 lb during February. I have increased my water this week, I love water but being so cold have not drank the usual quantity. Prior to Christmas I was doing 16:8 and since returning to work in January have been eating yoghurt and raspberries before setting off. Shall be going back to missing breakfast again and hoping that 16:8 as well as one or two extended fasts next month will get me where it want to be. It’s scary how quickly weight can return if you don’t keep a watch on the scales, I have vowed never to go 3lb above my goal weight. I weigh myself every morning and that keeps me on the straight and narrow.

Keep maintaining everyone. We’ve proved how resilient we are by achieving our target. As Esnecca says- Not one step back (think that’s what she says!).

I’m good, thank you for asking, Sunny.

Really pleased to hear that those last few pounds are melting away quite easily, you’ll be 8st, or just below, before you know it. That is exactly where I am at, and holding pretty steady +/- a pound. Not really counting calories these days, and allow myself wine every weekend, but staying fairly low carb – def no refined carbs. Almost 9 months into maintenance now and cannot see me ever going back, very happy with this WOE.

Essie, well done on the reverse sit-ups. Not even going to ask what they are, because they sound like some mediaeval form of torture – but each to his own.😝