Hi Sandra,

I just wanted to say you are an inspiration. Well done for working so hard to improve your health. This forum is such a help to everyone. Great to hear your wonderful story.

Joes Nonna.
xxx

Oh oh! I tried editing my post and now it’s gone! I’ve tried pasting and reposting it from the previous window and IT doesn’t like that. 😕

Me, organised? :O
Actually now you mention it, I do seem to have recovered some ability to organise and record.
5 months ago, I could barely make a single course meal once a day, and even that would end up burnt if I didn’t have anyone around to keep me on track.
Now I am making spreadsheets again, revising HTML and learning CSS, remembering what I’ve done and eaten in the last 24 hours, and even managing to record some of it, even starting to make meal plans! I’ve even made an inroad into the bomb-site that is my house, but actually that started some weeks ago.
I doubt that I will ever be properly organised, (I have ADHD), but it’s a great feeling to think that I have effectively wound the clock back 20 years!

I don’t think I was worried about muscle loss per se, more about the general ‘What’s going to happen when I run out of glycogen?’, having had bad experiences previously.
I suspect that those that suffer muscle loss without other symptoms of protein deficiency actually had more muscle than was strictly necessary, plus not eating enough decent food. After all, muscle uses a lot of energy even when it’s not used, so if food is short and you have more muscle that you are really using, then it makes sense that the body would reduce muscle, not only for it’s calorific value, but to prevent the additional use of energy. I am not in any of those categories.

I think getting back into clothes that had gotten too tight is the best test. Tape measures can slip, and inches can go up and down with a meal or de/hydration. I have a beautiful skirt from about 20 years ago, that I stopped being able to get into shortly after I bought it. When I can wear that again, I will be on cloud nine. 🙂

I realised from the disproportionate amount of weight gained (from a portion of chips), combined with it’s easy loss that it was being turned into glycogen, not going to body fat, but I still think it’s a sign to cut down on loose carbs. I’m sure I get enough from the rest of the food I eat. Even my protein shakes have some carbs.

The tiredness may not be related to a metabolism issue at all, it is possible that my brain is working well enough now, to tell me to get the sleep that I ought to be getting, and merely responding normally to unusual levels of exertion.

Thanks, both of you, for your support and encouragement. I have stopped worrying. 🙂

Hi 2chinjoe, I dont know that any blood tests need doing. I think the part in the book about having so many tests done is unrealistic as doctors dont had out tests on a whim. However, you already have conditions that mean you are tested and as your last test was only 2 months ago you should use that as your base.

Although I note you are using this diet as a weight loss plan and not for medical conditions, you will find an improvement in your results but dont stop any medication. My cholesterol has gone from 6.4 to 3.5 ish and my bp is down from 140/80 to 120/70 but my doctor insists I stick with my meds for both. As a diabetic, I have been able to reduce that medication in line with BG severely reducing and continuing on the original doses would be dangerous. See how you go with the weight first and then worry about what the diet does to the rest of your body – or should I say dont worry. Everything will improve in line with the weight loss.

Me, organised? :O
Actually now you mention it, I do seem to have recovered some ability to organise and record.
5 months ago, I could barely make a single course meal once a day, and even that would end up burnt if I didn’t have anyone around to keep me on track.
Now I am making spreadsheets again, revising HTML and learning CSS, remembering what I’ve done and eaten in the last 24 hours, and even managing to record some of it, even starting to make meal plans! I’ve even made an inroad into the bomb-site that is my house, but actually that started some weeks ago.
I doubt that I will ever be properly organised, (I have ADHD), but it’s a great feeling to think that I have effectively wound the clock back 20 years!

I don’t think I was worried about muscle loss per se, more about the general ‘What’s going to happen when I run out of glycogen?’, having had bad experiences previously.
I suspect that those that suffer muscle loss without other symptoms of protein deficiency actually had more muscle than was strictly necessary, plus not eating enough decent food. After all, muscle uses a lot of energy even when it’s not used, so if food is short and you have more muscle that you are really using, then it makes sense that the body would reduce muscle, not only for it’s calorific value, but to prevent the additional use of energy. I am not in any of those categories.

I think getting back into clothes that had gotten too tight is the best test. Tape measures can slip, and inches can go up and down with a meal or de/hydration. I have a beautiful skirt from about 20 years ago, that I stopped being able to get into shortly after I bought it. When I can wear that again, I will be on cloud nine. 🙂

I realised from the disproportionate amount of weight gained (from a portion of chips), combined with it’s easy loss that it was being turned into glycogen, not going to body fat, but I still think it’s a sign to cut down on loose carbs. I’m sure I get enough from the rest of the food I eat. Even my protein shakes have some carbs.

The tiredness may not be related to a metabolism issue at all, it is possible that my brain is working well enough now, to tell me to get the sleep that I ought to be getting, and merely responding normally to unusual levels of exertion.

Thanks, both of you, for your support and encouragement. I have stopped worrying. 🙂

Hello,
I’m looking to start BSD 800 at the end of July. I take medication for HBP and HC so have blood tests routinely, though not done any in last two months. Are the baseline blood tests recommended a must at the start the diet or can they be done later and using old results as reference? I’m just wondering whether I’ll be able to do the tests before the end of the month as it may be difficult to get a GP appointment in time. Any advice?
thanks

Hi everyone…8 weeks ago I coud not see woods for the trees but my recent Hba1c results has greatly improved. Where I go from here is my next journey and by end of September I plan to sharpen my insulin sensitivity even more.
Thanks to sunshinegirl and others who gave me support and encouragement from day 1 when my FBSR was 11.6 etc
Happy journey to you all
Its been a great 8 weeks for me
https://youtu.be/J1qx3EqQHI8

Ha! Nearly had cardiac arrest this morning! Went to update mfp only to see I consumed 12000 calories yesterday. Wtf? 😱😳

Phew, it was just the ap going mental and adding everything 5 times! Back to a respectable holiday value of 1500, though it was 2200 the day before…

My cousins think I have an eating disorder or that I have a serious illness I haven’t told them about. It’s exhausting as they keep trying to feed me up!

Hopefully I shall have a better day today calorie wise. Wearing my new tight jeans to keep me on track!! Off to the Galway v Roscommon Gaelic football final today, so that’s going to be a tough one….

Welcome newbies. Will post proper welcomes when I’m back home.

L xxx

Thanks Mary,

It is a lovely place to live……when it doesn’t flood!

Hi Pollygarter, and welcome.

FFBB

Glad to hear that things are going well for you Kate. Nearly halfway! 🙂

It would take. Big plate of chips to make you gain actual fat weight (if you accept the 3,500 cals = 1lb). Your weight gains is mainly down to the water retained to deal with them. Eating protein and fats are both satiating, hence the no need to snack.

Feeling tired/hitting a wall can be a sign of your body switching from carb burning to fat burning and can be separate to the carb flu. It can take some time for this to be seamless but once it happens, as long as there’s no carbs to use first, your body will use fat without any outward signs. My weekend runs are done fasted, 10 miles this morning on a glass of water. I don’t run fast so at some point I must have been burning fat as the glycogen would have been used – and I was relatively low carb yesterday. Completed the run with no problems. Eating a balance of high fat, med protein, low carb is enough to keep most people away from burning muscle – maybe your metabolism is just a bit more sensitive than most? And if , after losing your weight (in the past, or in the future) you return to old habits, then you will not keep the weight off.

Morning Sunshine -Girl, Verano, Sumo, Mixnmatch et al. Seem to have lost several days of posts via email – had thought things had gone quiet but maybe I unsubscribed myself in error. Glad to catch up with you all. S-g you seem to have had a few trials with sugar levels but the way you keep plugging away at this is so inspirational. Could you be hatching a cold or something? That’s often the reason for raised sugar levels when there’s no obvious food cause.
Verano – glad the weight came off fast. I am enjoying my holiday but really finding it difficult to stay low carb when we are out and about. The house is woefully ill equipped – note to self, bring a couple of plastic boxes next time – and it is so hot that meat is totally ruled out. Today I am taking some tomatoes with me and will try to buy some cheese when out. The family seems to want to stop at the bakeries each time which is no good for me. Still I am avoiding the bread although a few too many servings of icecream (it was 38 degrees Thursday and Friday and not a breath of a breeze, so unused to that after 15 years back in the UK ).
I think I may weigh myself a week after coming back from holiday having got straight back to strict 800 on my return. Might be less demoralising than seeing the big increase others report after holidays which seems to be largely water.
After 2 runs the 1st 2 days when we were at a hotel we then moved to a house on a main road between a village and a town. This past week it has been impossible to run – the cars zip past on a narrow road with no verge or pavement (walls both sides) and the pool here is so tiny I can on do 2 strokes before hitting the other end. Looking forward to moving tomorrow to a house on the coast tomorrow for our last 5 days where I know there is a promenade to run along. I know BSD is 80% diet not exercise but I feel so sluggish! On the plus side I have enjoyed relaxing and having time to think, and re-evaluating why I am doing this. Am 100% determined to get the excess weight off to avoid the type 2 diabetes so prevalent in the family.
Have a good Sunday everyone.

The easiest way to tell if body fat is going is to use the good old measuring tape. Measure any areas of concern, especially the waist for the visceral fat, and track the measurements weekly. I was never organised enough to do this, but you sound as though you should be 😀 I used the simple test of fitting into smaller and smaller clothes, picked up cheaply as ‘test’ items and kept in a box in my wardrobe.

The article opened for me – lots of interesting info LindaA.

I have used quark a few times, but tend to prefer the higher fat cream cheeses. I have some goat milk curd at the moment that is beautifully spreadable and very tasty.

It feels strange to a lot of us that you need to increase your dietary fat to lose body fat, but it does make sense when you think about the whole process of fat storage and release.

Thanks folks, I think I’m beginning to get a handle on it now.
As my weight had been stable for some time, my glycogen stores would have been full when I finally managed to cut down to 800.
This means that the weight I have lost over the last few days is not likely to be muscle mass.

There is no way of knowing if I have lost any body fat yet, but , as I haven’t been eating significant quantities of carbohydrate for some time now, my body must be using something else for energy, and be used to it as well. Hopefully it’s been using the extra fat that I’ve been eating rather than the protein, but either is possible.

(I wrote the above on the 7/7 but didn’t finish what I wanted to write so didn’t post it. I can’t remember, now, what else I wanted to say tho’ :S )

I don’t think I am fat adjusted, despite not eating much carbs at all for a long time now.
Yesterday, I had a fruit smoothie at lunchtime, (naughty, I know, but I figured I needed some vitaminC and roughage), so lots of carbs, but I didn’t get tired in the afternoon . . . It might have been the vitC that woke me up (if I have fruit or vitC in the evenings, my sleep is more broken), but I suspect that carbs were involved too, or rather the lack of carbs caused my intense sleepiness in the days before.

The day before that I didn’t manage to get to 500, but I did manage to keep to 800, and lost a bit more weight, but yesterday’s carbs have stopped that. I haven’t gained either, so not too bad a slip over all. 🙂
I will try and have one piece of fruit or a small glass of juice for breakfast regularly after this, for the vitaminC, and keep better track of my carbs too. My spreadsheet is getting a bit big tho 😀

Back to my concerns about muscle loss and not being fat adjusted though:
For energy, in theory, everything, fats, carbs and even protein, can be used as a source of Acetyl(?) CoA, and can be built all the way back up again to glycogen, or fat, but not protein.
Not being able to remake protein/amino acids from Acetyl CoA is normal, but the rest should happen. In a lot of us though, it seems that the ability to break down fats is not nearly as good as it ought to be. Clearly we use carbs for energy before anything else, so as long as there is an excess of carbs around, fat doesn’t get broken down (not counting digestion) for energy, so we have to cut down on carbs to get our bodies to use fat instead, but even then, we use up glycogen before fat. This part also seems to happen fairly smoothly (although for me personally this time, it seems to have involved a lot of need for sleep :S ). Why though, do we so often hit a brick wall when it comes to breaking down fat?

Eating a fair amount of fat and protein ensures that we don’t start breaking down our muscles for energy, and in fact I know from years of experience that my brain will be deprived of adequate levels of neurotransmitters long before I lose any noticeable amount of muscle, so really for me at least, the loss of muscle mass is a definite myth. I guess what I am really afraid of is protein deficit, but, again, eating sufficient protein should keep my neurotransmitters from being depleted.

And now I’m getting to the root of what is really worrying me. If protein is also broken down preferentially to fat, and even protein deficit doesn’t make me switch to breaking down fat, what on earth will?

Comparison time:
Previous times: not enough protein, so feeling low anyway, cutting down on everything, generally, I lost a few pounds then hit a brick wall and it became really hard to balance still losing weight without going into starvation mode, and I never managed to keep the weight I had lost off for more than a month or so. At least once, I did manage to lose about a stone, but despite my weight having been stable for a long time previously, I still put it all back on again. ‘Normal food’ if I take my eye of the scales, makes me put on weight. Back then, I wasn’t eating enough protein.
This time: Adequate protein. Weight has been stable, with scale watching, as before. Having cut down on carbs though, and some fat along with it as I cut out cakes and biscuits (because I found that with the increased protein I didn’t need anything like as much calories as before), I noticed that when I eat a normal portion of carbs e.g. chips, whoosh goes my weight. Obviously carbs need to go. I have managed to lose it again in a couple of days each time though. Since going high protein, and finding I have to eat at least two eggs or a (tiny) scoop of inisotol to sleep through the night, I just don’t get the munchies any more, and that actually it’s REALLY easy, not to eat more than absolutely needed. I don’t really need to look at the scales to keep me from eating more, I’m just not hungry enough to eat too much. I just need to keep away from loose carbs. Even on 800 calories, I’m not missing food, and even yesterday’s carb binge, still around 800 total, hasn’t put my weight up, so there is every chance that I won’t put back on any of what I’ve lost these last few days. I’ll keep up with my spreadsheet to be sure of getting enough protein without going over 800cals, but it’s just a little mental effort, no will power needed whatsoever. It works! even without fussing over precise amounts of carbs and fat.
I just need to tinker with meal plans so as to cut out the protein shakes, and get my vitamins and roughage on a daily basis, but still be a simple daily routine.

Can I join you on Monday too!
I have done it before, but have slowly slipped into bad habits again. Don’t know if I’m pre diabetic but probably am. I want to do it to lose a bit of weight but to be healthier too. As I get older good health has come more into focus.

Key thought this lovely morning
Does anyone eat Quark?? Don’t think I have seen in mentioned in any of the forums
It is lower in calories that Greek yog and low in fat but high in protein so I have used to reduce calories
of Greek yoghurt especially right at the beginning when appetite bigger. I also a savoury cheesecake with feta with it which was ok.

So 1.5lb off for me , 4.5 to go. Ok with that considering really busy week involving distressingly hot commuting.
Makes me feel very sorry for myself and that emotion drives me to treat myself which is either food and or booze or both.
Cold soda water sometimes cuts it, but not always.
Thjs week actively increased fat intake, bought whipping cream and used for cold coffee, ( whipped up in whizzer gadget – tastes like my favourite coffee chain frozen latte,) and then used to make a rhubarb fool. Rhubarb zapped in microwave 2 mins, sweetener , 2 tbls cream with 1tbls Greek yog whipped , then to give a boost I add 1/2 teaspoon citrus mixed peel, this just gives a orangery pop as you eat,. Without peel I calculated at about 170kcal.
Can’t find calories for mixed peel but I also use mixed up with cocoa nibs with yoghurt . I know they are loaded with a sugary syrup but use tiny amount and gives me a chocolate orange hit. These small treats have allowed me to keep going over 9 months and I eat when on the 5 bit of the 5:2.

It still feels strange to me that you increase your fat and your weight goes down.
Strict 800 day today and a Davina workout better get on with that before gets too hot.
NN

Well day 3, and feeling wonderful, brimming with energy, I can feel all my little mitochondria, just popping with wonderful nutrients. For the first time for weeks I slept all night with no bad dreams. Mind you that was instigated I think by working in the garden and walking 11,000 steps. I was able to work until 9 yesterday, felt so full of energy I didn’t want to stop.
So day 1 1,200 cals 83 carbs. Yesterday 1095 cals. And 68 carbs and weight down .7 of a kilo, so Bril I feel I’m back on track, and hopefully this time I will have a clear few weeks, to apply my attention to this, then I know the feelings of wellness, energy and positivity will override any backslides into carb hell, with the, in the words of Yowser, ” where the carb monster chases you down the road, ” in order to eat endlessly rubbish nutrients so true Yowser a monster it sure is.
Happy days. 🌞🌞🌞

Hi
I am only an hour south east of Bergerac. I live near a village called St Pompon. I come into Bergerac often, mainly to pick up from the airport. Where are you?

I also cannot resist Grand Frais.

Have you been checking your measurements? Maybe you are hoarding water for some biological reason like muscle repair and will have a whoosh moment in the next few days when the work is complete.

Linda, the article didn’t open… what was it about? Not SPAM, I hope!

Pollygarter, I love the feeling of grass underfoot! Yes, I’m definitely feeling more alive! More energetic!

Weight loss has stalled again. I’ve done masses of exercise, been drinking water, sleeping right. Calories have been on the high side, on average 871 per day, 57g carbs, but with the amount I’ve been running/walking, I should have lost at least 1,5kg! I suspect it’s the small quantities of fruit I’ve been having… despite being in the diet… which increases the insulin response.

Anyone have this problem?

It must be really difficult s-g for you to find the right balance. I guess it’s very much a case of trial and error.

Yesterday I chose to have a slice of bread, just my second in over a year. It was a good rye bread from a local bakery. Did I enjoy it? Mmmm well on the one hand yes but probably because it was toasted and spread with butter. On the other hand it was a bit stodgy and gave me that feeling of indigestion. I’m certainly not converted back to bread. I then started to think of my carbs so two hours later took my BS and it was 5.7 very much to my surprise. For a moment I’d forgotten why I no longer eat carbs. It could have been worse it could have been a white slice!

Anyway the upshot is that I have a gain this morning of 0.8lb. Must be water attracted by the carbs.

The good news was that we were out last night and I had olives as a starter, Bretton chicken and salad as a main and only sparkling water to drink. Did have a cappuccino though but then life needs the odd indulgence.

So still two days of week 5 and my 8 days challenge left so will really make them count.

Have a good day.

Have a look at the thread ‘101 ways with cauliflower’. Just type the title into the search box above. May give you some inspiration. Good luck.

I’m in ! 🙂

This is a great motivational article:

https://www.ketovangelist.com/let-it-go/

Cheers
Linda

We can all do it together xx

Aah great that’s good we can all support each other xx

Hi Lucy
Count me in too. Like you, I am not diabetic but seriously need to lose weight. A friend of mine started this diet last year and has lost over three stone. She looks great and feels even better.

Hi All..JCH.. my breakfasts tend to be milk or yoghurt based or egg. Have had tomato and onion fried with a tiny bit of bacon which is delish. Like you I’m on the hop most mornings so I’ve not got a lot of time.

I go to a pilates class. Started that about six months ago and most mornings I do just a few of the stretches and that really wakes me up. I do one just when I’ve given the dogs n cat their breakfast and before mine…stretch up arms and then lower them and allow head and shoulders to follow and hang right down, bent at waist then slowly uncurl back up again. Refreshing wake-up call! I also love to go and stand on the grass barefoot when I let the dogs out for their morning wee. Feel like I’m noticing life more.

Hi Pollygarter,
We are all addicts of some sort. My daughter is a chocoholic….I like wine, some people smoke. Its all stuff we crave as it gets control of our brains. Well done for working so hard and not drinking. It sounds like you are pretty much in control as all things should be in moderation. I dont have a sweet tooth, so not a problem for me. In fact, my only sin was Wine, which has been left behind. Keep the faith.
Mary
xxxx

This is such an interesting thread. And hilarious!

My view on alcohol/sugar is that their impact on our bodies is similar. There’s an old American saying : “Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker” and that’s about right, I reckon. Chemically, their structure is similar and booze comes about by the action of yeast on fruit sugars.

I stopped drinking five years ago. And feel so much better for that decision. However, my overindulgence in sweet stuff mimics in many ways the addictive cycle I used to go round with booze. Did a lot of research into how to addiction proof brains for myself and the kids and adopted a lot of those practices – omega oils, sun on skin for Vit D, wide range of fruit n veg and good fats. Still the sugar creeps in. I did the 8 week 800 BSD last year and felt amazing and lost loads. Gained a fair bit back but still kept off 7lb and now 3 weeks into a second round. Can’t believe how good it makes me feel. I still struggle with not overeating calories, decent choices but portions too big. It’s cherry and berry season. Yum!

Hi Everyone!

I have tried before and epic failed.

I so need to lose 4 1/2 stones in total and also am eating badly at present.

I seem to be so good at self sabotage i.e. lose a bit of weight then go off the rails!!!

I have to and want to lose this weight before my health fails. I’m not diabetic and have no health concerns at present (apart from aching bones etc from carrying excess weight)

I want to look better by October this year (my 48th birthday) and be super trim by my 50th!

I have joined a gym with my daughter to get fitter as well…

We can all help each other in this

Good luck

Lucy

Hi Sumo,
it is great how easy it is to move back into this when you need to – as you say like putting on a comfy pair of shoes – great restart – keep going and good luck with the garden!
Hi Yowzer,
wonderful to hear you have made your century :-)!

Orchid

Well done FFBB for ignoring the siren call. Sounds like a nice place to live though even if it is a temptation.

xxx Mary

So good to hear as I set out well done!!

Thank you that’s helpful and was what I was wondering was the case. My carbs are pretty low and so will see how it goes.

Yippee we can do it xx

I started on Thursday but I’d love to join in with you, I’m sure it will get really tough, so some support would be good! I’m on my 3rd day.

Hi fatinfrance, where are you, I am near Bergerac

Thanks for your replies, I guessed many folk have to tweak it here and there to suit individual schedule. Thankyou!

Hi Inthebin

We definately can – especially supporting each other for the 8 weeks 😊

Just a quickie.

Another successful day, WOE wise.

Struggled again with the siren call of alcohol but resisted…just.

Doesn’t help that I live near a pub with a riverside beer garden.

That’s all folks. Wish you all well and will power.

FFBB X

Hi Dolly that would be fab , eeeh lets see if we can do it together xx

Hi Inthebin

Planning to start on Monday – would be glad of support. I have 2 stone to lose and just feel losing it would be very good for my health👍

Depending on how much of your current diet is carbs you may have to reduce the exercise for a couple of weeks while your body adapts to burning fat, or risk a serious lack of energy which you would have to fuel with carbs to get through defeating the object of getting the body into fat burning mode. The really good news is once you have fat adapted there is no reason why you can’t exercise to your current levels and some people even report personal bests and a real feeling of being energised during exercise. It was fairly seamless for me as I had already reduced my carbs somewhat, but I still found it took a couple of weeks before the full adaptation occurred when on 800 calorie days.

Thanks mixnmatch, appreciate your support! Yes, looking forward to getting to the maintenance stage…. it was difficult setting an initial goal due to having more than 4 stone to lose… but it’s really motivating to see my fitbit dashboard telling me I’m 94% there! Another few pounds to go, then I’ll assess the situation.

Hi Raintoday — wow, absolutely wonderful loss for you!! So well done! Interesting issue with blood sugars as you transfer to maintenance — you will have to keep us posted as you “play” around (investigate) with your food intake and if certain foods are the problem or if it is more generalized. Have you tried going very low carb (20 grams/day max)? Let us know what you discover but HUGE congratulations on your success.

Wow, fantastic motivation – I began yesterday, 7.7.17 ! Needing a healthier future and will lose 1 stone 👍

I am planning on starting Monday. Am doing it for weight loss and improving health. Am not diabetic or prediabtic but there is a strong family history and I have 3 stone to loose to get just into my health BMI.

I exercise a lot but have come to recognise it’s 80% about what I fuel myself with. I don’t want to stop exercise but am worried about how to transition to the diet and will I have enough energy and don’t want to become shakey. I use the gym a couple of times a week and cycle two to theee times a week 30 ish miles with hills. Advise please thx in advance.

Hi just wondering as the link to the 12 week programme says 19th July but if u click on it it says 26th July…. can u confirm when it is please….thx