Toby101 – Why would anyone want to eat significantly below their maintenance
level long term? What so many like myself who have lost an extreme amount
of weight and are successfully maintaining it have found, is that as long as
you restrict bad carbs/sugar, you can eat significantly above your TDEE.
There are also serious repercussions for T2D who return to the nightmare
of spiking blood sugars, obviously. When I was in strict weight loss mode
for 10 months, even 1 glass of wine thwarted my weekly weight loss goals,
and that 1 glass only represented 3.8gm of carbs, i.e., liquid sugar. I soon
figured out that the outmoded thinking of “calories in, calories out” was
deeply flawed, and the TYPE of calories was what mattered. Just some
“food for thought”……Best of luck to you on your journey 🙂

Allie

Interesting, although I am not convinced a few 100g change from day to day is either here nor there. There must be a myriad of factors that could account for changes that small. I struggle to believe you will gain weight in the long term eating significantly below your maintenance requirement, however many carbs are involved.

Hi KazzUK unfortunately that report is over 3 years old so not much notice has been taken of its findings. In some ways I want the world to know about this way of eating but then again, being selfish, I am happy that I know about it. I also know from personal experience that it is hard to convince people. I have just seen a post on Facebook by my brother with a picture of a plate of Slimming World curry and rice, the curry is about 1 third of the plate and the rice is 2 thirds. I put a comment on saying, throw away half of the rice (I dont stop others from eating carbs) and he said ‘no way that is the best this about SW, I dont have to give up carbs’, How much has he lost, half a stone in 2 weeks, the same half a stone he up on over Christmas and same half a stone he was losing up to Christmas. That half a stone goes way back is seems to be his biggest friend LOL. 🙂

I learned two things yesterday: a glass of wine is not worth the morning headache. And an early night is a great solution to late night munchies. I cannot believe that one glass of red wine at a New Year’s drinks could make me feel as if I had had a whole bottle! Is this a side-effect of a changing metabolism??? Or just an overreaction to a few weeks’ abstinence?? Just pleased that I resisted the impulse to dive into cheese and nuts and headed for bed!

Hi Alliecat, I wish there was a ‘like’ button – I would be using it
SSB

SSB – One disadvantage to being on my side of the Atlantic is that the
time difference ( 5 hrs) often costs me in participating in real time
conversations 🙂 The fact that we are born with a finite number of fat
cells is consistent with my knowledge, too! The theory is that the weight
of a pregnant mother while carrying the child, as well as her gut biome
and specific bacteria a child is exposed to while passing through the
birth canal all have a role to play in whether or not we are destined to
have a weight problem. It seems that some of us have to work extra
hard to keep these fat cells deflated! But now we have the formula to
do it!

Hi there Toby 101 — about the scone, it may be because the low carb diet forces your body to burn fat, not glycogen, but the high carb scone is stored as glycogen, which I understand also causes water retention.

Have not got any evidence for this, am speculating. Sure there’s someone with firmer grip on the science can confirm or refute!

Hiya lovelies….

S-G – so pleased to read your post, it’s very positive that the “authorities” are seeing low carb as a great idea at last.
How long do we have to wait though for something to stop being a potential “fad” I wonder? With me, what clicked, was understanding what goes on inside my body in response to consistent over consumption of refined carbs/sugars. Once I had that knowledge and experienced the health benefits, I felt like I’d got a permanent get-out-of-jail card!

SSB – I’ve admired TK for being on board with LCHF WOL. I don’t know how he can look those desperate volunteers in the eye as he ladles out pasta carbonara and apple puff pastry tart!

Kazzee xxx

Hi so I though by skipping lunch I had eaten less than the 750 calories calculated for my day so I checked how much I ate in calories by skipping lunch – 900 calories – how did I do that, well I was hungry in the afternoon so had part of what would have been my lunch (ham and cheese) but put it on a Ryvita (OK its a carb but I only have one or 2 a week) then I put butter on it. Evening I had an omelette for dinner and saved a wedge for supper but, because I had missed lunch I was so hungry I had another snack. So an extra 100 calories – and Toby101 – explain that I gained a quarter of a pound. Life’s a poop sometimes.

Hey there, not managed the entire recipe yet, but did have macadamia nuts as part of brunch today!

Also, the raspberries are in the oven, but it’s been a bit of a comedy of errors. Popped them in first thing yesterday but possibly the oven will only kick in at 50degrees as nothing seemed to be happening, which may be lucky cos I forgot them! Remembered about 10pmTurned it up to about 75, went to bed. Still unchanged this morning, so up to 100 but I was in garden when fire alarm went off! Mad panic, went in and turned them off and At that VERY MOMENT it turned off. About two hours later realised the plumber set it off, not the raspberries, so now they are back on and finally seem to be crisping up a bit.

Makes your blackberries seem easy, eh, Esnecca? Off to gym now, hope some progress made and not burnt to a crisp when I get home.

Have realised this somewhat slapdash approach may in fact typify my whole personality, but luckily I am OK with that 😂😂

Laska yes THS is the one I use. If you get your friend to send you a recommendation via email you will both gain with 20% discounts for your both – you do have to pay to join, it cost me £75 but I have made some many recommendations I have got my 2nd year for free. I dont know how we managed before, we have saved over €1250 in cattery fees in the last year.

Very interesting s-g. I guess there’s no point in having a body such as NICE and then ignoring their advice. Although, sometimes they do seem to move very slowly. I’m sure that there will always be some people who adapt better to this WOE than others.

I always have in my mind my own experience with hip resurfacing that, at the time around 2000, was the best thing since sliced bread. But, it hadn’t been endorsed by either NICE or the American equivalent. It was available here and people were travelling from far and wide for this new ‘experimental ‘ device. It worked well and gave lots of people their ‘life’ back again. For me I discovered, to my cost, that if it needed replacing it was far more difficult than with a standard full hip replacement. Further down the line still there were found to be many faulty devices which ended with a huge class action in the US. Today there is constant concern about metal particles entering the bloodstream because the device is ‘metal on metal’. Most hip surgeons don’t use the system anymore.

Now I’m not saying that there could be such problems with eating this way but in truth we really don’t know what we are doing to our internal organs, hair, nails etc. by more or less excluding a whole group of food. I’m prepared to take the chance because my diabetes is in remission but who knows down the line? I think part of me agrees with your French doctor s-g we will all have to wait and see.

Hi Laksa,

I read your comments about perfect or f it, and could have been reading my own character, except in my case it was very tall rather than fat, and I had one critical parent who wanted me to do well and one who was jealous of everything I did. Like you it’s taken till now (63) to really recognise and live with it, not use it as an excuse for sabotage.

Retirement is wonderful, I’m really enjoying it and want this WOE to work for me so that the diabetes doesn’t curtail my fun.

Thanks for your post, it’s motivated me as well..

Sunshine girl . we are buying a campervan! but house sitting does sound good also .i have a friend who does this . on something called Trusted house sitters i think.. What is the website you use ?

Thanks everyone! Had a lovely, long walk this morning, with the happy thought that my fat cells were merely hanging on to water cheering me along the way. Went about twice as far as I intended because I got lost! 21K steps. Didn’t see a soul, but crossed paths with the roe deer three times and sent their white bums bobbing away. Now tucking into a nice, hydrating prawn pho soup.

SSB, brilliant idea to use halloumi as bacon, will definitely give that a go – free range bacon is so pricy and it gets round the nitrate/nitrate issue too.

Squidge, you are so right, consolidating these gains (10lb down) is a marvellous thing, not a bad day – and Flick and Inka, I shall embrace the whoosh fairy when she comes with a special celebratory yoga stretch!

Hi Theodora and Sunshine Girl,
It’s so frustrating- how many people will unwittingly follow the conventional ‘advice’ and then suffer years of yo-yo weight-loss, a feeling of failure and depression (as many of us have) simply because the authorities won’t update their thinking in line with research. IMO – Tom Kerridge needs a good slap!
SSB

I wholeheartedly agree with you all. In fact I watched Tom Kerridge last night and moaned the entire way through it, and o/h said “but, you have to admit, it’s obviously working” True – but ANY low cal diet will work while you are on it! We all know that, but we cannot spend our lives on a “weight loss diet” so a new way of eating HAS to become a way of life. How will this ever happen when he is encouraging people to have rice pudding, burgers in buns etc? This is why I have never used substitutes – I know there are low carb bread recipes etc out there, but frankly I wanted to wean myself off bread and other white carbs. I have succeeded in doing that and now will happily make a sandwich or a ploughman’s etc for o/h’s lunch and not even be tempted! I’ll just have the cheese and salad elements (or whatever the filling is for that day), it truly is not a problem. I don’t even have things like cauliflower rice – personally (and it IS a personal thing) I would rather eat my cauli raw and crunchy! Just love it, especially with a wonderful dip – guacamole, smoked fish pate etc.

BTW Tilly, on a point of interest, I embarked on this WOL purely for weight loss, and have managed that beyond my wildest dreams (now weigh 8st, BMI 20), and have kept it off, but I was never diabetic, pre-diabetic, or ever had any BG problems.

If you think the ‘authorities’ are not doing anything to improve our health then I have just dragged up an extract from a paper I read in 2016 by the Public Health Collaboration UK as follows:-

Public Health Collaboration on Healthy Eating Guidelines and Weight Loss for the United Kingdom. The site is phcuk.org, an official government site for public health.
Conclusion on page 24 said in 2008 “Evidence from this systematic review demonstrates that low-carbohydrate/high-protein diets are more effective at 6 months and are as effective, if not more, as low-fat diets in reducing weight and cardiovascular
disease risk up to 1 year. More evidence and longer-term studies are needed to assess the long-term cardiovascular benefits from the weight loss achieved using these diets.” That was in 2008
Finally, in February 2016 the fourth specific analysis was published in the British Journal of Nutrition finding that “Compared with subjects on low-fat diets, subjects on low-carbohydrate diets experienced significantly greater weight loss, greater triglycerides
reduction and greater increase in HDL-cholesterol after 6 months to 2 years of intervention.”
So between 2008 and 2016 the medical advice on nutrition has changed from thinking low carb might be a good idea to 2016 concluding it is a great idea. They go on to say that they are concerned that NICE are not taking up this advice and, in particular, still advocating high carb, low fat diets when it has been shown that low fat leads to fatter people. Apparently NICE are waiting for trial to end so phuk have carried out their own trials and their final final conclusion is:
In light of this scientific evidence the Public Health Collaboration recommends thatthe guidelines for weight loss in the UK should include an ad libitum low-carbohydrate-high-fat diet of real foods as an acceptable, effective and safe approach”

That is why the medical profession is not interested – I am with them partly as this is so new it could turn out to be another fad but we know different. My doctor says I am saving the French health service around €150 a month as I have reduced the amount of medications and medical equipment required each month (normally around €300 per month for meds so cut by half). I said, imagine how much it could save if all of your diabetic patients were on this diet. His view is, wait and see.

Hi everyone, funnily enough Toby101 I ate less yesterday because I had such a late breakfast (slept in) I skipped lunch and then had my normal dinner and I gained quarter of a pound or 200 grams. Our bodies dont always do what we want them to do but I think it is true to say if you are used to 800 calories then your body gets used to it so add on a couple of 100 and you gain. That is why people who have done well on this plan then increase the calories slowly, slowly to go onto maintenance. It is a fact of life. I know my weight will drop again and hope it will be soon but do not get stressed about it.

Marie123 my final point on the subject of BGM – you are diabetic so the results you get are really significant in helping you know your own reactions to various foods – and you will know some people can eat something with no effect yet it will cause a real spike for others.

Laska, retirement was the best thing ever for me even though I thought I would go mad with boredom. However, I did retire to France with a pool and a large garden. I might have a suggestion for you when you retire if you want to travel. I can give you details of a house sitting site which allows you to travel, stay somewhere absolutely free (buy your own food) and all you have to do is get yourself there and look after the house as if it was your own and there might be pets involved but that is up to you. We have had people come and look after our house and they have been from Australia, New Zealand, England and our next one is from Amsterdam. Something to think about for the future.

Nice chatting to you all but I must go and make my tuna and cream cheese dip (sardines in the book but beurk….)

Toby,.. me also wondering, but I have… I’ve eaten maybe slightly over 800 some days but not much and definately not over 1000 and only one day was that anything higher carb, but yes a weight gain occurred (see above..’ Its got to be ‘body conspiring against me theory!!.. it can be nothing else!).. cant even be water weight,.am peeing for England!

Why ‘demotivated by now?’ One week I hear you say and you’ve lost 2lbs! Yes but my inner ‘,Unreasonable Superwoman’ is not satisfied with that is she? 😒 Unreasonable Superwoman is of course all things I am not!…….really shes Unrealistic superwoman a sort of cross between all the thing’s I tell myself I should be and some kind of beautiful celebrity with it all..
BTW.. I do know this is all total nuts (I have degrees and everything! Just no good sense of self ..(blame it on the parents!! )😁

I am genuinely curious as to why people on this diet are reporting weight gains because they eat a scone, or some crackers or whatever. Surely if you are still eating overall below your maintenance calorie level you should still be losing weight – even if not as fast?

The report was based on prof Taylor’s work but of course he used meal replacement shakes so he could more accurately measure what people were eating so the low-carb bit didn’t enter into it. To me though, it’s common sense – starchy carbs are very low nutrition and are really just cheap fillers so if you go very low calorie and still need all your nutrients, the carbs have to go – it’s just that no-one actually says that. I think it was MM, working from Prof Taylor’s work but wanting to make it doable for every day, who looked at cutting the low value carbs – hence this fab website.
I think the NHS, Public Health England and all the rest are just terrified of coming out and admitting that the low fat message of the last 4 decades might actually be wrong, even though many studies now have shown it to be failing.
SSB

Hi, Mariet! Something I can actually answer 🙂

1 stick = 1/2c = 8Tbs

I reckon that the dragons tail analogy is so good I reckon it does for all of us, re self sabotage eh? (Thanks again Esnecca ).

I am still up a lb and would usually be feeling pretty demotivated by now because I know I do have a tendency to be an ‘instant results or I am a miserable failure/my body is conspiring against me/what’s the point i am just destined to be fat’ person (yes all this for one miserable pound going the wrong way!)

i have an really well – developed over-‘perfection or f*** it ‘ personality, i know.. its taken me 60 years to actually really recognise this so its pretty ingrained in to me by now! I stop myself from doing so much (especially in competitive things) because i never feel good enough. i am really not a ‘joiner in’ for the same reasons I think.. i reckon its a a hangover from the ‘fat girl last to be picked school sports/ critical parents thing .. (parents still critical sadly , i just live with it . )

I really should have got over this by now .! …. Anyway self-sabotage and Me ..we are such old ‘friends’..i have lost this weight twice before . each time when Ive got down to 10st -10st 7 last time – i just went back to my old ways and here I am again..
. ..
I am about to have a huge lifestyle change – retiring from work soon and i want to travel.. .. i really need to stop this sabotaging this time..

Anyway typing this has made me motivated for today.. at least .. !

We’ll said verano!

Hi Zolou, I’m sorry tohear your scales aren’t cooperating, my exciting weight loss has come to a screeching halt too, it has taken me all week to lose almost a kilo. Still not there!
BUT I keep chanting to myself as I step forlornly off the scales ( who was it that called it ‘the saddest step’?!!) WEIGHT LOSS IS NOT LINEAR!! which is another great bsd battlecry that others have posted before! It never fails to comfort me, just keep it in the back of your mind…and best of luck. I agree with Flick and SSB, the whoosh fairy comes when you least expect it!

Martymonster I think that is the crux of the matter …. you need to change eating habits. Neither WW nor SW or all such similar diets do that, which has led to , most of us here, spending many, many years yo-yoing. I think most of us have gone from one diet to another only to end up heavier than before. This WOE is a revelation but it also takes a lot of willpower to make it a permanent change. I think it becomes easier when your taste buds change and you no longer ‘crave’ carbs.

Unfortunately there is no money to be made by the dieting industry if they allow us to lose weight permanently. So why would they help us to change our eating habits? The only organisation to ‘make money’ by permanent weight loss are the NHS who save by treating fewer people with diabetes and it’s baggage, and other weight related problems!

Interesting discussion! I’ve been defeated by a ‘stick’ of butter. How much is that?

Saltyseabird; oh no not again. Where is prof Roy Taylor? Why isn’t his voice louder or his platform bigger? It’s still up to us then to show others by example that it can be done. I’m not diabetic but feel completely evangelical about this way of eating on behalf of all the others who are and have had and are having fab success with it. Captain lynne Esnecca, Theodora, alliecat, kazzee, nonna Mary, sunshine girl, verano and apologies to anyone I’ve missed – you know who you are. And if the amazing canada liz is still out there please come back when you’re ready were all linking arms waiting to get in your kitchen for a cup of tea! 😊😉Good luck on the onward journey ladies. I’m up half a pound on yesterday, but could be the hot cross bun I sneaked yesterday 😜😟my own worst enemy!

Hi Esnecca,

Just catching up on yesterday’s posts. I love your dragon analogy. My dirty little motel secret is sneaking chocolate bars when no one is looking. It could turn in to 5 minutes of binging on a whole bag of mini chocolates (which are in fact 90% cheap sugar) which they sell for £1.

I am NOT that person any more!

Well done, Sandy – great start. You can’t be doing very much wrong with a result like that.

Hi Tillybud, yes I saw that and thought ‘yey! They’re catching up’ …but… it only emphasises very low calorie, not low carb. I worry that people will cut their calories but keep all the rubbish carbs, fail miserably because they’re hungry all the time and then say it doesn’t work.
SSB

Hi Sandy13

That’s a great weight loss for just a few days. I’m also new to BSD, but found it OK so far and the people on the Forum have great tips and advice. I am just eating around 800 calories a day and keeping my carbs under 20g and trying to reach 10,000 steps a day.

Just browsing the BBC’S news website and noticed headlines for the Daily Express today. “Drug free way to fight diabetes” 4 month plan to reverse type 2 diabetes! Well, well well. Maybe the NHS is catching up. Hope so everyone X

Hi everyone, I’ve just registered today and started the 800 BSD on Monday this week. I live in Greece at the moment and I’m waiting for Amazon to deliver some books on calories, carbs and the BSD book, so I have been working on information gathered online and hope I’m doing it right! Weighed myself this morning & have lost 5lbs, so am rather pleased!
I have lots of recipes but have trouble getting some of the ingredients but made the cauliflower topped cottage pie last night & just had broccoli with mine, gave my husband a jacket potato.
Not felt hungry yet & don’t crave any bread or potatoes so it seems to going ok so far.

Hi everyone, I’ve just registered today and started the 800 BSD on Monday this week. I live in Greece at the moment and I’m waiting for Amazon to deliver some books on calories, carbs and the BSD book, so I have been working on information gathered online and hope I’m doing it right! Weighed myself this morning & have lost 5lbs, so am rather pleased!
I have lots of recipes but have trouble getting some of the ingredients but made the cauliflower topped cottage pie last night & just had broccoli with mine, gave my husband a jacket potato.
Not felt hungry yet & don’t crave any bread or potatoes sonic seems to going ok so far.

What I was trying to say – and said very badly – is that if she does have success on this diet which doesn’t really change eating habits, or cull the desire for sugary treats and then heads off on a cruise where bad food is aplenty I don’t fancy her chances.

I say this as someone who got down to their ideal weight for their wedding on WW points and then eat all around me in Paris for a week.

I realise my main contribution to this forum has been moaning about this show. It’s only because I have had ‘success’ with WW which is a very similar mindset only to put it all back on again. I’m not diabetic and I’m lucky to be close to my ideal weight but I’ve been see-sawing for years with the high point gradually getting higher until I was properly overweight.

The BSD has been a revelation as I’ve managed to nearly loose it all and more importantly keep it off. That’s why I’m annoyed with this show. I feel like it’s leading people down the same frustrating road I was on, by someone who should know better!

Hi,

My struggle with US recipes is measuring by volume. I can manage dry goods by volume and have a set of cups but never worked out how to do half a cup of butter. Now I have a converter easily available on my iPad and use my trusty scales instead.

No apologies necessary and in fact many cruisers do force feed themselves!

Hi Squidge

What a great idea! In fact I could use that for a few things – thanks for the suggestion.

Ha ha – faking it, that sounds like a plan. Fakitos are on the menu!

Wow Esnecca that Macademia nut recipe sounds so lovely. I’m storing all these cooking and recipe ideas up for when I move up from 800 calories. No room for much experimenting at the moment. Having said that I bought some almond butter the other day (it was organic from a farmers market and cheaper than I could make. When I talked to the maker about it she said she works with almonds all the time and uses the broken or slightly dented ones for the butter rather than waste them).

I find that the butter is much more satisfying than the equivalent nuts for the calories if I’m desperate for a little hit of a “treat”, so I imagine that your recipe will be even better. But I don’t trust myself yet to have “treats” available ready made, easier to have a total prohibition for now. I made some sugar free almond biscuits when friends came round the other day, and ate more than I needed because they were OK carb wise.

Well done, Jules! That’s an impressive weight loss.

If you fancy it, you could use cos lettuce leaves in place of tortillas. Not quite the same, I know, but you do get the putting stuff in and wrapping them up aspect. I have that on the meal plan I’ve devised for us.

Drinking water with slices of lime, mint leaves and ice would at least look like mojitos.

I do apologise Verano. I didn’t mean to disparage all cruise goers and I realise my trough imagery was completely insensitive, especially on a weight loss forum.

Zolou, I just posted elsewhere that a bad day, when it comes to weight used to mean a gain of a pound or two – staying the same is much better than that.

SSB, I believe you’re right that we keep the same number of fat cells, they just get bigger or smaller.

I can understand you wanting to keep one treat. If you’re not having any other sugar, hopefully the coffee will seem really sweet and you’ll be able to gradually reduce the amount of sugar you have in it, yet still feel it’s a treat.

I wouldn’t be able to stick to this diet if tea was banned. I have mine with milk, but no sugar (luckily I don’t like it in tea). I know there’s natural sugar in milk, but there are also nutrients, so I’m not feeling guilty over that.

Good Morning Squidge

Sorry there has been no loss, but as you say no a gain!

I am pleased to say I have lost a 1lb this morning, so making a total of 11lb for my first week. I am delighted with my progress so far and hopefully will keep me motivated! Mr Pacman is weighing in tomorrow, I hope he has had a good loss or my life won’t be worth liiving.

I have friends coming on Saturday and I have decided to cook Mexican. They can have burritos with chicken, peppers, mushrooms etc made with tortillas and I will just have the chicken etc with a small dollop of sour cream and guacamole. Everyone’s driving so no booze, which is no bad thing.

Have a great day

No weight loss today.

On the plus side, a bad day weight wise used to mean I’d gained a pound or two. No change is much better than that!

Good morning. Flick what a great way to make something positive out of a negative!

My positives are getting harder to find just at the moment but here goes anyway….
1. Made a sort of ‘bubble & squeak’ with some left over mashed cauliflower and it was very nice.
2. Watched ‘Girlfriends’ and quite enjoyed that, although I didn’t enjoy Tom Kerridge!
3. Said ‘NO’ to a meal out, when normally I would have agreed, even knowing the food woudn’t be BSD friendly.

Hope you all have a positive day.

Hang in there Zolou, the scales will move with a lovely woosh as described by Saltyseabird. Or if like me, a woosh-ish. Batten down the hatches and stay with the plan.

Martymonster I have cruised and you aren’t ‘force fed’ and there are healthy options so weight gain isn’t inevitable. In fact I’ve even lost weight on a cruise!

The problem I see with the program is that it’s more of the same …. low fat, keep eating what you always eat but less, have treats etc etc. And I suppose for the majority of people who don’t have diabetes this may work. Although, it seems that many people do regain weight in the long term because they go back to ‘normal eating’. As they say ‘ if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got’!

In some ways having diabetes makes it easier to stay in control. The science shows that low carb healthy fat eating can reverse T2 . But if you want to keep your diabetes at bay, and all the nasties that come with it, you have to make a life choice and keep eating this way.

I’m afraid I can no longer watch these programs because they actually annoy me now.