8 week Fast 800 'reboot' starting 2 January 2018

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• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 12:23

  

  To qualify what I said about using a blood sugar monitor IF YOU ARE NOT DIABETIC – the results will be meaningless, what will they be telling you. The only thing they tell you is what your BG is at the time not what made it that or affected it. You can eat a piece of chocolate, test your blood and it is high, well that is to be expected, it might also tell you it is low because it is 80% dark and it is all you have eaten. You can go for hours without food, take a blood test and it MIGHT be high, why, because you havent eaten and your liver has dumped a load of glycogen. You might be coming down with an infection and your BG can go sky high off the scale. It is all too variable and tells you nothing and IT HURTS. If you decide to get a machine and regularly test, please come back and tell me how you are using it and what you have discovered.

  Marie123, you use a BG monitor because you are diabetic and your readings are an indication of what is happening with your blood sugar, would you do it if you weren’t diabetic. Sorry to bang on but it is a pointless exercise to take blood tests what the results are meaningless (yes that word again) and dont actually tell you anything.

• posted by marie123
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 12:41

  

  sunshine-girl

  I’m aware I use a BG monitor because I’m diabetic. No, I wouldn’t use a monitor if I wasn’t diabetic.

  JGwen asked for some information about blood glucose monitors and I have responded to that question. My interpretation from reading another post is that she might be interested in doing a specific experiment and was exploring the idea of using a bg monitor to test a hypothesis she feels strongly about. I might be wrong, but in the end it’s up to JGwen what she decides to do.

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 12:45

  

  marie123 first of all you have said what I said, that if I didn’t have to do the tests I wouldn’t. Yes it is certainly up to JGwen whether or not she uses a BSM but I have asked several time for what purpose and what is she hoping to discover and have had no response. So without a response I can only give my opinion based on what I know, and I do know she is not diabetic, so my response is based on that one fact. Anyone can do whatever they want whether I agree with it or not but she asked a question and I gave a response. I also gave her what information I have about buying such a machine and the usage of it so didn’t just say no to it. I would be interested to hear what JGwen has to say about the whole subject and why she wants a machine.

• posted by JulesP
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 15:34

  

  Forgot to post here on weigh day yesterday so coming clean now. Honestly, I’m my own worst enemy, need to work in my will power. After sticking rigidly to plan since Boxing day I reached the longed for 9st 13 last Friday and sat tight right at it, terrified it would sneak up again, what did I do the day before weigh in? A scone with jam & cream, half a baguette & 2 seed crackers, that’s what I did!!!
  Nice one Jules, not!
  So now 10st 2, sad face, can’t to emojis.
  I’d bought the seed crackers on Saturday and thought I could risk a couple but that must be what triggered the carb fest so they’re going straight in the bin. Back on plan again 100%, trying to win back the 9’s.
  This reminded me that years ago, when doing slimming world from a lower start weight I managed to get down to 9st 13 too and only stayed their for a couple of days, then over time ended up way heavier than start point. Seems I sabotage myself when at lowest weight. Odd, need to work on this.

• posted by Esnecca
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 15:50

  

  Jules, have you ever heard of nuclear physicist Louis Slotin? He worked on the atomic bomb during WWII and was known for a practice he called “tickling the dragon’s tail,” in which he placed fissionable materials closer and closer together to study the build-up to the chain reaction. The idea was to observe closely and separate them before the chain reaction and inevitable massive explosion. One time the reaction began faster than he’d expected and he had to physically separate the materials with his bare hands to keep the southwestern United States from turning into a mushroom cloud. He died of radiation poisoning shortly thereafter.

  The seed crackers, the other things you’ve bought when you achieve a weight loss goal, that’s your version of tickling the dragon’s tail. Because it’s well-embedded in your psyche, I think you need to fight it in a very mindful, aggressive way. Talk to yourself, remind yourself of the inevitable shame spiral that ensues, and most of all, acknowledge and accept that you are a different person now. You are not the secret cracker binge person. These dirty little assignations in pay-by-the-hour motels don’t work for you anymore. You are about health, strength, committment, focus and holy crap are you all about results. Those loss figures speak for themselves. They’re the best rebuttal in the world to a self-destructive impulse.

  You can do it!

• posted by Verano
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 16:32

  

  I just want to add that I agree with sunshine-girl when it comes to the BSM question. I do have T2, now in remission and controlled by diet alone, but I realised very early on that the only reliable measure was the HbA1c. There are so many variables that affect blood sugar that unless you need to prick your finger several times a day because you use insulin, why would you? It really serves no reliable measure and is a bit like weighing several times a day, leads only to frustration because of all the fluctuations and serves no real purpose.

• posted by alliecat
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 16:34

  

  Hi JulesB, and welcome to the forums and the depth and breadth of
  knowledge and support waiting for you here. Being a part of this
  community is the secret weapon we all share! You’ve taken the first
  step in acknowledging your self sabatoge, and I salute you for that 🙂
  From time to time there have been other discussions here on that very
  subject. One of the more thought provoking comments was the following:
  Rather than fear of failure, could it be fear of success???
  It’s good to meet you. If you have time in your life to join one of the active
  challenge threads, then you will meet other newbies, those on their way,
  and most importantly, maintainers. We’ve all been where you are and
  are more than happy to share what has made us successful.
  Best of luck to you, Jules!

  Allie

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 17:36

  

  Hi V, just wanted to say, I wish I could have said it as succinctly, I always go all around the houses and then back again.

• posted by Verano
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 17:40

  

  No s-g I think you put a very well reasoned case I just reinforced your argument!

• posted by JGwen
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 18:16

  

  Hi Sunshine-girl and Marie123.

  Thank you for your insights into using a blood sugar home testing kit. First of all I should mention a couple of points, my work nowadays isn’t office based, so I only get the option of reading the forums and responding once a day, when each day depends on the work of that day. So yesterday it was in the morning and today its in the evening. Secondly I am an Aspie, (Aspergers is the high end functioning version of Autism, – think of every scientist and engineer or geek with poor social skills and truthful to a fault and you are thinking about the 1 in 48 of the population who is an Aspie.) Its just a difference in brain wiring which means we notice patterns more than the average person, continue to ask why all the time, but are not as proficient at other skills as other people.

  I have been a vegi all my life since very early childhood, meat fat causes projectile vomiting and fish is one of the few things that has as a scent I can pick up and it stinks. Despite having a low cal diet, (so low that on two separate occasions NHS nutritionalist’s I have been referred to by my GP have decided I am a liar. They decided my food diary must be false because I couldn’t be that fat if it was accurate.) I have fought my weight all my life, now I realise that it was the carbs of the bread, potatoes, etc which bulked out the fruit and veg heavy diet which was the problem.

  Its really difficult to stick under 20g of carbs and have enough protein for a vegi. I can do it for a short period, but its not a lifestyle I could sustain for long term. I picked up a low carb cookery book the other day and most meals involving beans and pulses were in the 40 to 70 grams of carb per portion. So my logic is that I need to find out more about other ways of reducing the impact on blood sugar levels of different food groups. I found the research in Israel which linked the ratio of gut bacteria to have specific foods impacted on blood sugar levels very interesting. They fitted a blood sugar monitor to participants in their trial which constantly monitored blood sugar levels and response to sleeping, exercise as well as food, and the participants supplied a food diary. That trial has come to an end, but reading through all the information including the papers published, I came across the suggestion that people could use home blood sugar kits to replicate the process for themselves. So thats why I asked about others experiences of using home based blood sugar kits.

  A couple of links you may find interesting are http://newsite.personalnutrition.org/WebSite/Home.aspx (The website for the Israel research) and http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/magazine/say-hello-to-the-100-trillion-bacteria-that-make-up-your-microbiome.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

• posted by Esnecca
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 18:36

  

  JGwen, I looking into something similar a few months back when I was considering testing my BS reaction to certain foods (beets, primarily, because I love them so much and miss them) to see if they could reintroduced once I was at goal. S-g told me much the same thing she’s telling you now, and my initial forays into the home testing kits confirmed that the results were really only significant and useable for people with diabetes because the blood glucose spikes and valleys can quickly become medical emergencies.

  I haven’t researched home testing devices thoroughly, but I find it hard to believe that any of them could truly replicate the results of a constant monitor used in a study. They are not even remotely in the same neighborhood of accuracy and they rely on self-testing at varied times, so the data gathered is on a completely different scale as well. It’s like the difference between the mapping of an individual’s genome and the ancestry DNA kits people buy to find out the ostensible percentage of their ethic makeup. One is a precision instrument; one is a lumbering lummox that is so often wildly off-base that they should be legally required to admit to the sampling error rate.

• posted by Luvtcook
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 18:57

  

  Can I also add that the more current thinking is to look at the insulin response versus the blood glucose level for non diabetics. To do that, you essentially are looking at ketone levels that drop when insulin is triggered by a certain foods. This is more important for weight loss and addressing insulin resistance as some foods trigger an insulin response that do not cause a rise in blood glucose….high injestion of meat for example, hense the often heard caution about keeping your animal based protein intake moderate.

  The ketone tester are not that expensive ($50 for tester and a starter set of test strips) but the test strips are quite pricy. I recently bought a pack of 30 for $50. Ouch. But I wanted to see for myself how my body was reacting to various foods, especailly meats and fishes and exactly how big the reaction to moderate inclusion of pulses in my diet.

  The testers can do both ketones and glucose, depending on which type of strip you are using.

  I am just getting started on all of this and want to establish a baseline at different times of the day, but will let you all know what I am finding after I get enough readings to make some sense of it. And of course there are going to be differences from one person to another. I truely feel I am very sensitive to carbs, at least refined ones. But I want to see what the response is to low carbs with/without fats and to carbs that are very high in fiber. I want to see data and let that dicate future food choices.

• posted by Verano
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 19:01

  

  Part of me is starting to wonder if life is too short ……. for all this testing etc. If not absolutely necessary!

• posted by Laska
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 19:14

  

  Esnecca I love your post about the chain reaction!!

• posted by alliecat
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 19:58

  

  Hi, all! As a non diabetic, this conversation today has been very interesting
  from a strictly intellectual point of view. LTC, I’m going to be quite curious
  to hear how your body reacts, so please remember to post the results of
  your tests. I flirted with the idea of blood testing when I was trying to
  work out what levels of ketones I had, particularly after reading how
  unreliable ketone strips were. The entire exercise was moot, because I
  felt such a dramatic change in my energy levels after 10 days of <20
  carbs, because that was the day that I entered into that desirable state
  of fat burning. I’m always interested in increasing my knowledge however,
  so thank you to everyone participating in this discussion today!

• posted by Sandy47
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 20:17

  

  TC, your post about eating in the toilets has made me howl with laughter!! As quite a shy person in certain social situations, I can totally identify with the embarrassment of drawing attention by ‘being awkward’ and not going with the majority. This was touched on in one of Esnecca’s posts in the Santa’s Elves thread, which I’ve just spent the last 15 minutes hunting down! If you do a search on ‘Act as if Victoria’, you’ll find it easily. Act as if really stuck in my mind, and I’ve been trying to ‘Act as if’ ever since, with some degree of success. Have a look, you may find it useful. And Esnecca, I’m really not stalking you, honest! Just find your experience and advice so helpful and constructive…along with all you other amazing people on here x

• posted by Dipgal
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 20:19

  

  My two cents..I’m a newbie to the BSD, but not to low carb. I’ve read many books and internet articles over the years. I have found that there are experts out there (Rob Wolff – Paleo guru, as an example) who recommend BSM testing as a good way to fine tune a persons’ diet – even for non-diabetics. Especially after we are at a desirable weight. Since all “good” carbs aren’t created equal with our own chemistry, my body may favor sweet potato over blueberries or oatmeal. If I had the same breakfast of say 2 scrambled eggs in butter with sauteed spinach and 1/2 avocado.. and then each day added one of the above at the end.. and had differing results on the monitor 2 hours post meal – wouldn’t that be an indication? All else is equal, so even if it’s not absolutely correct, it would provide some useful data.

  Last time I was serious about low carb I bought a basic BSM, the strips and learned what carbier foods I could get away with. Note, I wasn’t and am not currently VERY low carb or keto.. If I was keto I wouldn’t be trying the foods mentioned – but I’ve been averaging at about 30 net a day. I’m not playing around with legumes yet, but eventually will and will take out my trusty BSM and see what it says.. A few years ago, I didn’t stick with LC long enough to make any long lasting dietary tweaks.. but, I hope to this time..

• posted by Esnecca
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 20:30

  

  That’s so cool, Sandy, thank you! I don’t know how I wound up a motto person, but between “act as if,” “eyes on the prize” and “not one step backwards,” I have come to realize that certain refrains can resonate deeply enough to be a motivational shortcut in getting over day-to-day obstacles. I’m pleased as punch you’ve found it helpful on occasion too. By all means, stalk on. 😀

• posted by Esnecca
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 20:43

  

  JGwen, regarding the underlying issue of getting enough protein on a low carb veggie diet, have you explored tofu and hemp products? What about whey (assuming you’re not vegan) protein? Chlorella? Spirulina? Algae in general are protein powerhouses. There’s a gram of protein per gram of chlorella powder. You could easily get half of your daily ideal protein in a single smoothie using a combination of hemp/nut/soy milk, dried and powdered algae, silken soy or hemp tofu, whey or plant protein, raw cacao nibs and whatever other flavor elements you enjoy. Beans are not the be all-end all of options for vegetarian proteins. It’s just what people are used to relying on until they find they’ve put on 50 pounds despite their “healthy” diet. That’s how it was for me, at any rate.

• posted by JulesP
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 21:41

  

  Esnecca, thank you so much for your amazing, thought provoking response! I don’t think I will ever look at my self sabotaging in the same way again. Not going to give in to it this time. Pushing through to find new ground.

• posted by Natalie
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 22:07

  

  Good morning everyone, I’m back to full health today. I had one day of feeling really sick then one day of mostly physically better but bored, grumpy and miserable. And I ate some bad things in that state. Most notably when I was angry at my husband for making too much noise when I was trying to have a nap. I actually thought something like ‘this will show him’ as I wolfed down more cheese and crackers. I was punishing him by eating? Sure, that makes a lot of sense…

  The mini Magnum ice cream I had later made me feel ill.

  Weighing in on the BSM chat, sunshine-girl you’ve said a couple of times that it hurts but I don’t find that at all. Tiny prick with a fine sharp point gives a huge drop of blood for me. Thin skin I guess. I barely feel it. But the couple of times I tried to test my husband it took several tries to get any blood, had to up the needle length, and it hurt him. That was with a brand new sharp needle. So depends on the person I guess.

  I have a test kit from when I had gestational diabetes, I now have pre-diabetes/glucose intolerance. Fasting levels fine, blood sugar levels vary depending on what I eat. So I’ve actually found the kit very useful to narrow down what affects me. For instance anything made of rice (eg ‘healthy’ rice crackers) send my bs levels very high. It may not be professionally accurate but it gives me an indication.
  I don’t use it often, just occasionally. Even without it I can feel if my bs is high, in my eyeballs. Or if it’s too low I get weak and shaky and churlish. That happened a lot more often when I ate badly, sometimes a reactive hypo (where you feel a big drop from a high, even if it doesn’t go below 4). My body tells me when something is wrong.

• posted by marie123
  on 10 Jan 2018 at 22:12

  

  JGwen – Thanks for posting the links. I’ll definitely have a read of the information.

  Luvtcook – I’m also interested in what you’re doing so it’ll be great to hear about what you discover.

  Verano – I’d like to offer an alternative view to yours on the value of BSM for T2 diabetics.

  As I posted earlier I’ve used a blood glucose monitoring kit since August when I was first diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes (5 months). Using the BG monitor has been valuable in a number of ways; seeing my daily blood sugar levels made the diabetes diagnosis very real and got me immediately focused, and kept me focused, on getting my levels down. By testing before and after meals, it’s helped me understand how different & specific foods affect my blood sugar levels. Maybe I’d have got this as general info eventually if I read enough, but testing has been a quick short-cut and has personalised it to me.

  An example of this is when I was making the meals from the BSD book. I found a single portion of the beetroot falafel, while delicious, spiked my blood sugar. I tried half portion but it also led to a spike in my blood sugar. Something – maybe the beetroot or the chickpeas? caused that reaction. I’ve yet to go back and test those foods, but I will. It did make me change to eating very simple meals where I could test individual items more easily. I now have a long list of foods/meals and portion sizes that I’m fine with. I don’t test around these meals anymore.

  There are limitations to blood glucose monitors as has been said, but my personal view is that using one has still helped me get my blood sugar levels back from very high into a normal range.
  I’m not advocating that anyone else should use one but do want to offer a different perspective.

• posted by zolou
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 06:00

  

  Hi Natalie, glad you are feeling better, thanks for reporting in to let us know 🙂

  Jules, thank you for sharing your cautionary tale! I wonder if you’d have any more luck with the treats in the BSD recipe book.

• posted by JulesP
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 07:09

  

  Hi Zolou, I’ve scared myself so much tickling the dragon’s tail (I love that expression Esnecca, have been thinking about it all night and am lying in bed researching it now!) that I probably won’t be risking any more unknown treats until I get to maintenance. Amazing that I’ve longed to be in the 9’s for most of my adult life yet scuppered it within days both times I made it, our minds are strange and fragile things. I know there are some cracker recipes on here which will be very low carb and no doubt delicious and which I should have made instead of getting shop bought, that will teach me to be lazy.

• posted by JulesP
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 07:31

  

  Hi Alliecat, I’ve been in two minds whether your message was for me or JulesB who is a newbie but since she isn’t on this thread and your message comes soon after mine and mentions self sabotage I don’t want to ignore it in case it was meant for me, JulesP, sorry if I’ve got it wrong. There are least 4 Jules’ on the forum now so could get even more confusing.
  The fear of success rather than failure is a fascinating idea. I’m going to search back and see if I can find the previous posts you refer to, I’d love to read what has been discussed, see if I can get more insight. Apologies again if your reply was meant for the other Jules.

• posted by Verano
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 07:40

  

  Marie 123 life is full of trial and error and I see a good discussion as very positive in giving people food for thought. The two foods you mention are both high carb so a carb calculator might have been a less ‘painful’ way of discovering that they would be likely to cause blood sugar spikes in, probably, the majority of people. I guess at the end of the day it’s ‘horses for courses’.

• posted by JulesP
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 07:42

  

  Joy of joys, just got up and forced myself onto the scales – 9st 13.8!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m in heaven, welcome back my friend and I promise never to treat you the way I did before again. Third time lucky. Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement you wonderful people.

• posted by VictoriaM
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 09:21

  

  Hi Esnecca,

  Just catching up on yesterday’s posts. I love your dragon analogy. My dirty little motel secret is sneaking chocolate bars when no one is looking. It could turn in to 5 minutes of binging on a whole bag of mini chocolates (which are in fact 90% cheap sugar) which they sell for £1.

  I am NOT that person any more!

• posted by Laska
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 10:03

  

  I reckon that the dragons tail analogy is so good I reckon it does for all of us, re self sabotage eh? (Thanks again Esnecca ).

  I am still up a lb and would usually be feeling pretty demotivated by now because I know I do have a tendency to be an ‘instant results or I am a miserable failure/my body is conspiring against me/what’s the point i am just destined to be fat’ person (yes all this for one miserable pound going the wrong way!)

  i have an really well – developed over-‘perfection or f*** it ‘ personality, i know.. its taken me 60 years to actually really recognise this so its pretty ingrained in to me by now! I stop myself from doing so much (especially in competitive things) because i never feel good enough. i am really not a ‘joiner in’ for the same reasons I think.. i reckon its a a hangover from the ‘fat girl last to be picked school sports/ critical parents thing .. (parents still critical sadly , i just live with it . )

  I really should have got over this by now .! …. Anyway self-sabotage and Me ..we are such old ‘friends’..i have lost this weight twice before . each time when Ive got down to 10st -10st 7 last time – i just went back to my old ways and here I am again..
  . ..
  I am about to have a huge lifestyle change – retiring from work soon and i want to travel.. .. i really need to stop this sabotaging this time..

  Anyway typing this has made me motivated for today.. at least .. !

• posted by toby101
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 10:19

  

  I am genuinely curious as to why people on this diet are reporting weight gains because they eat a scone, or some crackers or whatever. Surely if you are still eating overall below your maintenance calorie level you should still be losing weight – even if not as fast?

• posted by Laska
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 10:25

  

  Why ‘demotivated by now?’ One week I hear you say and you’ve lost 2lbs! Yes but my inner ‘,Unreasonable Superwoman’ is not satisfied with that is she? 😒 Unreasonable Superwoman is of course all things I am not!…….really shes Unrealistic superwoman a sort of cross between all the thing’s I tell myself I should be and some kind of beautiful celebrity with it all..
  BTW.. I do know this is all total nuts (I have degrees and everything! Just no good sense of self ..(blame it on the parents!! )😁

• posted by Laska
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 10:32

  

  Toby,.. me also wondering, but I have… I’ve eaten maybe slightly over 800 some days but not much and definately not over 1000 and only one day was that anything higher carb, but yes a weight gain occurred (see above..’ Its got to be ‘body conspiring against me theory!!.. it can be nothing else!).. cant even be water weight,.am peeing for England!

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 11:30

  

  Hi everyone, funnily enough Toby101 I ate less yesterday because I had such a late breakfast (slept in) I skipped lunch and then had my normal dinner and I gained quarter of a pound or 200 grams. Our bodies dont always do what we want them to do but I think it is true to say if you are used to 800 calories then your body gets used to it so add on a couple of 100 and you gain. That is why people who have done well on this plan then increase the calories slowly, slowly to go onto maintenance. It is a fact of life. I know my weight will drop again and hope it will be soon but do not get stressed about it.

  Marie123 my final point on the subject of BGM – you are diabetic so the results you get are really significant in helping you know your own reactions to various foods – and you will know some people can eat something with no effect yet it will cause a real spike for others.

  Laska, retirement was the best thing ever for me even though I thought I would go mad with boredom. However, I did retire to France with a pool and a large garden. I might have a suggestion for you when you retire if you want to travel. I can give you details of a house sitting site which allows you to travel, stay somewhere absolutely free (buy your own food) and all you have to do is get yourself there and look after the house as if it was your own and there might be pets involved but that is up to you. We have had people come and look after our house and they have been from Australia, New Zealand, England and our next one is from Amsterdam. Something to think about for the future.

  Nice chatting to you all but I must go and make my tuna and cream cheese dip (sardines in the book but beurk….)

• posted by Laska
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 12:49

  

  Sunshine girl . we are buying a campervan! but house sitting does sound good also .i have a friend who does this . on something called Trusted house sitters i think.. What is the website you use ?

• posted by VictoriaM
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 12:59

  

  Hi Laksa,

  I read your comments about perfect or f it, and could have been reading my own character, except in my case it was very tall rather than fat, and I had one critical parent who wanted me to do well and one who was jealous of everything I did. Like you it’s taken till now (63) to really recognise and live with it, not use it as an excuse for sabotage.

  Retirement is wonderful, I’m really enjoying it and want this WOE to work for me so that the diabetes doesn’t curtail my fun.

  Thanks for your post, it’s motivated me as well..

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 13:11

  

  Laska yes THS is the one I use. If you get your friend to send you a recommendation via email you will both gain with 20% discounts for your both – you do have to pay to join, it cost me £75 but I have made some many recommendations I have got my 2nd year for free. I dont know how we managed before, we have saved over €1250 in cattery fees in the last year.

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 13:50

  

  Hi so I though by skipping lunch I had eaten less than the 750 calories calculated for my day so I checked how much I ate in calories by skipping lunch – 900 calories – how did I do that, well I was hungry in the afternoon so had part of what would have been my lunch (ham and cheese) but put it on a Ryvita (OK its a carb but I only have one or 2 a week) then I put butter on it. Evening I had an omelette for dinner and saved a wedge for supper but, because I had missed lunch I was so hungry I had another snack. So an extra 100 calories – and Toby101 – explain that I gained a quarter of a pound. Life’s a poop sometimes.

• posted by JackieM
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 14:00

  

  Hi there Toby 101 — about the scone, it may be because the low carb diet forces your body to burn fat, not glycogen, but the high carb scone is stored as glycogen, which I understand also causes water retention.

  Have not got any evidence for this, am speculating. Sure there’s someone with firmer grip on the science can confirm or refute!

• posted by caronl
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 14:42

  

  I learned two things yesterday: a glass of wine is not worth the morning headache. And an early night is a great solution to late night munchies. I cannot believe that one glass of red wine at a New Year’s drinks could make me feel as if I had had a whole bottle! Is this a side-effect of a changing metabolism??? Or just an overreaction to a few weeks’ abstinence?? Just pleased that I resisted the impulse to dive into cheese and nuts and headed for bed!

• posted by toby101
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 15:26

  

  Interesting, although I am not convinced a few 100g change from day to day is either here nor there. There must be a myriad of factors that could account for changes that small. I struggle to believe you will gain weight in the long term eating significantly below your maintenance requirement, however many carbs are involved.

• posted by alliecat
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 15:56

  

  Toby101 – Why would anyone want to eat significantly below their maintenance
  level long term? What so many like myself who have lost an extreme amount
  of weight and are successfully maintaining it have found, is that as long as
  you restrict bad carbs/sugar, you can eat significantly above your TDEE.
  There are also serious repercussions for T2D who return to the nightmare
  of spiking blood sugars, obviously. When I was in strict weight loss mode
  for 10 months, even 1 glass of wine thwarted my weekly weight loss goals,
  and that 1 glass only represented 3.8gm of carbs, i.e., liquid sugar. I soon
  figured out that the outmoded thinking of “calories in, calories out” was
  deeply flawed, and the TYPE of calories was what mattered. Just some
  “food for thought”……Best of luck to you on your journey 🙂

  Allie

• posted by JGwen
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 16:35

  

  Esnecca – Thank you for the suggestions re tofu and hemp. Focusing on a diet which is dependent on unusual ingredients would be a handicap to traveling more, staying with friends and family, and socialising. While thankfully the days of there not being anything at all on the menu for vegetarians when you want to eat out has changed (at least in the UK) the options are still very limited. I wouldn’t want to impose on people I visit more than simply being a vegetarian and refusing the side options of bread.

  While smoothies are OK in some situations, when I get in from a day working outside especially when its as cold as it has been today, I really want a cooked meal. I do like stir fried tofu, but I want a range of dishes.

  I think that there is growing interest in the way in which the gut is populated in infants. The article in the New York Times I provided a link to yesterday mentions that they have discovered elements in milk which help establish beneficial bacteria in the infants gut which are missing from formula milk. I have read in the past research that there is also components in milk which help to combat the establishment of streptococci bacteria.

• posted by Mixnmatch
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 20:30

  

  When you put noticeable weight on from just a small over calorie like s-g did it must be water weight, and a reaction to a higher than normal carb intake. It usually leaves almost as quickly as it arrives for me. I think when you are low carb long term you are permanently running with your liver and muscle glycogen in a depleted state and extra carbs are diverted there rather than being turned into fat (apart from fructose, which is only ever converted into visceral fat according to some sources, although maybe only when the liver glycogen is replete, as it can only be processed by the liver). The calories-in hypothesis suggests you need to overeat by about 3,700 calories to put on a pound of fat, although eating low carb I can eat above my TDEE and not gain anything.

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 22:11

  

  Hi MnM, I wouldn’t call quarter of a pound noticeable weight – as I usually say it is only a poo or a wee away from sticking. I have been hammering the water and feeling bloated so it could even be that. Really it is a matter of jumping on the scales daily and seeing the fluctuations you wouldn’t see if I weighed weekly, so I dont get upset about it or change my mind set. If we want to be academic about it in a non-scientific way just by using previous observations I can report that this morning I had a big drop in blood glucose reading and a small increase in weight. I have noticed in the past that this can happen as can the converse – or is it obverse) that if I have a big weight loss my BG can go up – I just see it as my body making its own adjustments to a changing situation. Tomorrow or the next day the weight loss will start again. Isnt that what we tell newbies who are having a stall and it is true. I still think that when we are on such low calorie plan (or any reduced calories) the body soon gets used to it and detects even small increases in that allowance. Which is why people regain weight if they return to ‘normal’ eating. I will report my results tomorrow as usual, good or bad, I know I am sticking to it, I just need my body to catch on too. 🙂

• posted by Esnecca
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 23:43

  

  That’s the spirit, Victoria! You are nobody’s cheap date, least of crap chocolate’s. It amazes me how easily we bond to things that are objectively terrible — grainy third-rate chocolate, high fructose corn syrup, chemical flavorings. I deserve the honeymoon suite at the Ritz, a massive bouquet of long-stemmed red roses and a filet mignon with a side of asparagus and hollandaise. Here’s to knowing your worth, owning your life, standing your ground no matter what or who comes at you and never again having to settle for garbage!

  I had a weakness for mini Twix bars back in the dark days, which I managed to fend off until Halloween when I told myself I was getting a couple of bags for the neighborhood trick-or-treaters. In 5 years, no more than a half-dozen kids ever knocked on my door. Those Twixes were always destined to go down my gullet one after the other, let’s face it.

  I knew things had changed radically for me when my OH bought something like 10 boxes of Girl Scout cookies and I didn’t eat a single one. They stayed in the cabinet for MONTHS. I kept waiting for the day I’d crack, but it never came. He finally brought them to work and his office mates polished them off for us.

• posted by Esnecca
  on 11 Jan 2018 at 23:55

  

  Laska, you rock. Good for you for staring your dragon down, recognizing that he lives inside of you and has spent decades honing his ability to use your most painful memories and fears against you. My dragon was paralysis, depression, a certainty that any success I’d had as a youngster was sheer dumb luck, not drive or intellect or ability. I would tickle his tail by miring myself even further in the quicksand. Good thing he turned out to be the laziest dragon in the world. He couldn’t do shit to me once I cut the sugar, found real energy again and simply got up and walked away from him.

  He’s probably still there somewhere, snoring throatily and farting in his sleep. I wouldn’t know, of course. Not one step backwards.

• posted by Esnecca
  on 12 Jan 2018 at 00:06

  

  Jules, congratulations! Way to get back into single digits. I’m so pleased you found the Slotin analogy useful (to the point of research, no less!). Long may the thought of accidental atomic annhilation keep your dragon at bay. Now on to the next mini-goal and the next until the endpoint and maintenance and a lifetime of real liberation instead of being stuck in a loop of old patterns and self-harm. It’s a beautiful thing. Pat yourself on the back!

  Same goes for you Victoria, Laska, everyone. We so easily fall into the trap of berating ourselves, punishing the parts of us that seem to be actively undermining our goals. But those are just fragments. Every one of us, taken as total humans, have accomplished great feats of strength. It’s so important that we well and truly feel the steel in our spines and take vocal pride in our successes and achievements, be they mental, emotional or physical.

• posted by Mixnmatch
  on 12 Jan 2018 at 00:18

  

  I agree that quarter of a pound is totally insignificant, in fact my daily variation at the moment is mostly in the more than a pound bracket which is much more noticeably water, but quarter of a pound of fat is about 800 extra calories over TDEE, if you just look at what ‘fuel’ you have had extra on that one day it was far from that much. Keeping on keeping on myself at the moment, and finally starting to drop some of that water, about 4 pounds down this morning.

• posted by JulesMaigret
  on 12 Jan 2018 at 01:22

  

  Also on the quarter-pound thing, remember that scales are not that accurate and will vary on their own internal temperature, angle of pressure on the load cells etc. I paid about £10 for my scales in a UK Supermarket and I have no delusions that they have the cheapest load cells and converters on the market so I stick to the round pound number which is likely to be near the mark.

• posted by marie123
  on 12 Jan 2018 at 01:54

  

  VictoriaM – I can completely relate to the whole chocolate bar scenario – I used to love milk chocolate but hadn’t had a piece of chocolate since August, and was fine about it. I’d read on here about people having 1 or 2 squares of Lindt so bought some for Christmas. For some bizarre reason, I assumed I’d respond differently to dark chocolate – hmm, that now sounds a bit like Esnecca’s Twix tale – but nope, ended up wolfing down most of it in one go. So, now you’re no longer that person and neither am I !

  Btw, am I the only person who finds the idea of a dirty little assignation in a pay-by-the-hour motel strangely appealing? I’ve often wondered, Esnecca, if you write, either for a living or for pleasure.

  Verano – I think we’ll just have to agree to differ on the blood glucose monitoring

  JulesP – great news about getting into the 9st’s…. I’m still at 10 stone but I’m hoping to get there by Tueday’s weigh-in.

  I’m away to a surprise birthday party from tomorrow. It involves a 3 day hotel stay but it’s only bed and breakfast so I’ll be fine. It will also give me a chance to go for a few long walks which, as a previous couch potato, I’m genuinely looking forward to.

  Have a good weekend everyone

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