After reaching your target, what next?

  • posted by Flick
    on
    permalink

    Hey Allie, it sounds like it is time to take gaining some weight as seriously and with the same care and cleverness as you applied to weight loss. Maybe you are burning more calories in the cold weather, so maybe eat iver your TDEE for a bit? Mind you a trip to the doctor is probably a sound idea.

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    Theo, Flick, LTC, and Julia (californiagirl), I almost missed your thoughtful
    and kind words because it is the start of a new page. I’m very humbled
    by your concern, and plan to take your advice to heart. I scheduled a
    check up for the end of the month, and have begun to weigh and measure
    everything, as well as step up my weigh-ins to more than 1 x wk. I really
    thought I was coming in daily at close to my TDEE of 1429, but there is
    no way to be sure of that unless I keep close track of it. I had been
    holding steady at 138lbs. for 4 weeks, so I thought this was all behind me,
    but apparantly not. It’s an unusual problem to have on a diet forum, and
    not easy for me to talk about. I knew Theo would understand my stress
    about it, but I’m a bit overwhelmed by the compassion from everyone
    else. What an outstanding, powerful gang of friends you are 🙂
    Theo, there is much that resonates in your post about the possibility of
    a “new normal”, and it IS possible that’s unconsciously what’s been
    going on with me. I kind of “lost it” yesterday, and thus my “Whine-Out”
    to you!
    You all are the best!!!

    XOXO
    Allie

  • posted by SunnyB
    on
    permalink

    Allie – this is definitely the best place to come to ‘whine’, although that word seems very negative to me – I think ‘vent’ is a more powerful, positive term for what you did. Continued unwanted weight loss is concerning and you shouldn’t feel bad for bring that to the forum. Hope you will soon be able to resolve your excessive loss. With luck it will prove to be a deficit on TDEE intake and easily rectified, but I think you are wise to have a general health check anyway. Daily weighing might help you, so that you can see where fluctuations are happening. Best wishes to you, Allie – hope to be reading more positive posts from you soon.

    I’m still on my quest to push down to a flat 8st and have been making fair progress toward that aim. Weekly weigh in tomorrow and hoping that there won’t be any unwanted blip upwards at that point. Enjoying the feeling of being in control again – find weighing, measuring and recording makes me so much more aware of what’s being consumed.

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    Thank you, Sunny! It IS time for a new strategy…I always enjoy reading
    your posts, and like you, I try to circulate around to our new members.
    I seldom have to add any thoughts, because you cover the main issues
    expertly and very articulately at that! I hope you see 8st very soon 🙂
    At that weight, though, I’d have to be hospitalized 🙂 🙂 🙂

  • posted by Theodora
    on
    permalink

    Allie, how can it possibly surprise you, that we all care? Particularly as you are one of the most caring, helpful and encouraging people on this forum. We are friends, caring is what we do.

    Now, as far as a “new normal” is concerned, please don’t go there because, despite what Wallis Simpson once said, there IS such a thing as too thin (though not quite so convinced about being too rich 😜 though I’d quite like the opportunity to find out😋) Your normal must be where you WANT to be, and obviously you are below that at the moment. So was I and all my family and friends, most of whom had been really supportive, started telling me that I was looking too thin, scrawny in fact and, in hindsight, I was. Hopefully those days are behind me, as I have managed to regain half a stone and, at the moment anyway, am holding steady. You may find that you are eating up to your estimated TDEE but, as you have been experiencing such extreme cold in Connecticut recently, you are burning more calories just to keep warm? Example, both Essie and I had cravings for fat last week, listened to our bodies and ate more, and even so we both recorded a slight loss in weight. It had been extremely cold (though nowhere near as cold here as it is over there) and we were obviously burning more. Hopefully this is what is happening to you, so try upping your fat intake for a few days and see what happens – I used full fat yoghurt (one day I ate almost 0.5kg!!), nuts and cheese.

    Sunny, 8st is exactly where I am at and very happy to be there, and I’m sure you will have a very successful weigh in tomorrow. This time next week will be my first BSD birthday, so hoping to weigh in at exactly 8st on that day,

  • posted by SunnyB
    on
    permalink

    I’m ‘vertically challenged’, Allie, so 8st on me is fine and a 21.1 BMI which is in the middle of the healthy band for my height (or short!).

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    Huge, ginormous hugs, Theo! Across the pond they come 🙂 I’m heading
    straight to the refrig. for 1/2 an avocado now, to add to my lunch of
    hard boiled egg and kimchi. It has been extremely cold in the apartment,
    and the heating system is working too hard to get above 64F.

    XOXO

  • posted by Theodora
    on
    permalink

    Crikey, Allie – 64 degrees? No wonder you are burning more calories, I feel far less concerned now, as I am sure that’s what the problem probably is. Mind you, in the extremes of temp you have been experiencing, your heating system is probably doing well getting your home up to 64! On the plus side, Hartford (no idea if that is where you are actually located, but the only place I actually knew in Connecticut) is now on my favourite list on the weather app on my phone and it tells me that the temp is set to get steadily higher this week, possibly even out of the minuses altogether. Here’s hoping anyway, and it may just solve your problem (heating and weight loss)😊

    Thanks for the hugs, duly received and very much appreciated, my friend, and obviously returned with interest. 🙅🏼

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Hi guys, blood test results back.

    HBA1C – 29 (normal) yay!

    Cholesterol- 9 (boo) apparently. Comprises of 1.74 HDL (I think that is a yay?) and 7.3 ‘non-HDL’ which I think is a big boo?

    Seeing Dr next week, going to say I will correct it with diet. Have no idea what is was before I started BSD. I do know I relied a lot of cheese, ham and processed meat to get the weight off, but now have shifted to seeds and green veg way more. So this may well be a downward trend.

    Specific questions: how long does it take to lower cholesterol through diet? And how is it done to be compatible with this WoE (I will google and use the search engine too but I know a lot of you have been here, done that, so top tips appreciated)

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    Heartfelt congratulations, Jackie on getting your HBA1C into the normal
    range! That must be such a relief 🙂 Both o/h and I had very high chlor-
    esterol readings when we began our quest for weight loss and wellness.
    In addition to a completely occluded (blocked) rt. coronary artery and 2
    others chocked with plaque, he was facing 2 complicated stenting pro-
    cedures. Our course of action can only be described as extreme, and
    I realize animal fats are allowed on the BSD. Thus, what I share here is
    completely anecdotal. Within 6 months not only had our readings
    changed to “optimal”, but that was true of every other parameter for
    complete blood studies. We eliminate all cheese, processed meat,
    and included wild fish on the menu 2-3 wk. All animal proteins became
    free range and pasture raised, always on the lean side. Things like
    sausages and ham were absent from the menu. I’m adamant about
    consuming healthy fats however, and they now come from plant based
    sources like nuts, avocado, seeds, organic eggs, etc. O/h has a diagnosis
    of stage 3 heart failure, so fluid retention from processed meat and anything
    else high in sodium had to be eliminated as well. We used to be “over the
    top” consumers of things like bread, cheese and salami, and we never met a
    cheese we didn’t like or had any concept of eating in moderation 🙂 Now we
    will eat pastured beef 1xmo. if it is grass finished. I dare not temp fate and
    possibly put o/h at risk for further plaque build up, so we steer this course
    like his life depends on it, and I’ve been able to adapt effortlessly to his
    needs. I can’t really compare chlor. readings with yours because they
    aren’t calculated the same in the US. So, just one couples story….I’m
    sure that you will arrive at one that is manageable and yields results for
    you too! Best of luck,

    Allie

  • posted by Luvtcook
    on
    permalink

    Allie and JackieM: I completely agree that it is ideal to get the vast majority of your fat from the most healthy fat sources. But to add to anecdotal evidence….my choleterol is also in the excellent range subsequent to adopting a low carb lifestyle even with adding animal fats (am a bacon lover and my favorite steak cut is rib eye, the fattiest of the lot). Note the same result for M Mosely when he dropped his weight. He continued to eat a diet that included meat yet his cholesterol numbers improved with the intermittant fasting (the ultimate in low carb eating…no carbs no food).

    Allie, your husband’s situation is a completely different matter…..of course you must exercise every caution. While he might safely eat some other types of fats, you absolutely are doing the right thing is serving him only the safest of the safe.

    Each person if of course different with different genes and your own cholesterol / blood tests will dictate that path you take and how restrictive you need to be. That said…no more healthy oil that the olive oils (MUFAs) and avocados. How nice that they also taste so good.

  • posted by arcticfox
    on
    permalink

    JackieM: I think your 1.74 HDL is really quite good. Mine is 1.24 and still in the okay range (higher is better). It supposedly doesn’t take much time to lower your total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol if you eat the right things. Check out this BBC Horizon episode that does a little experiment on a plant-based diet:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/healthy/

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    LTC – Just a quick question for you…I use avocado oil for high temp searing.
    Do you?

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Thankyou ArticFox! Will get reading x

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Oh, just seen Allie and Luvtcook replied as well. Thankyou folks, food for thought (maybe not eating!)

    My husband eats all the bad stuff and his cholesterol is just fine. It’s my damn Irish peasant genes I expect. Ho hum, will let you know what the Dr says. Am still planning on asking for 3 month retest and diet change before statins. After all, if I can sort out my blood sugar levels …. 😁

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    I tell you what is annoying, I only eat organic/free range stuff and have for a while. I’ve been pondering whether I eat too much of it and I’m not sure I do, given (as someone said on another thread) I don’t have bread and butter/potato and butter etc etc. I do fry my veg in butter, and I might sprinkle some grated cheese on that, (as well as linseed) and I do eat red meat (organic) but also salmon, avocado etc. I don’t eat lumps of cheese out of the fridge or anything – I’m still slightly losing weight for goodness sake!

    Ho hum, if I can fix the insulin issues I can sort this out. Here comes another massive learning curve! The obvious thing I will cut back on is my beloved double cream in my coffee. It’s been less tempting recently anyway. I stopped liking cured meat about a month ago.

  • posted by LindaA
    on
    permalink

    Hi JackieM,
    Can I strongly suggest you get Dr Malcom Kendrick’s (UK doctor) ‘The Cholesterol Con’ and read it before seeing the doctor and definitely before you even consider statins.

    I’ve now been doing strict low carb/Keto for nearly 2 years after losing 30kgs on the BSD. My total cholesterol is currently 7.4, my triglycerides are 0.4, my LDL is 3.9 and my HDL is 3.3. I’m not all all worried about my total or LDL numbers because they are just not that important. More important are your triglycerides/HDL ratio (0.12) and your Total/HDL ratio (2.2).

    I know you guys in the UK don’t seem to measure your triglycerides, but that along with your HDL are really the most important numbers. Your insulin levels are also good to know as fasting glucose x fasting insulin divided by 22.5 = your HOMA IR score. (The calculation is a bit different for those outside Australia – just google HOMA IR). This is a great health risk indicator.

    See http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2017/11/8/fat-emperor-live-and-unhinged-on-ketogeeks-podcast-lchf-keto-cac-longevity

    Ivor Cummins also from the UK is brilliant on this stuff.

    After my doctor saw my cholesterol numbers, she freaked out and suggested statins (which I politely told her where she could shove them!) and I suggested she send me for a Coronary Calcium Score which she duly did.

    I’m sure she thought that my arteries would be blocked based on my numbers but the score came back a big fat ZERO!

    The science just doesn’t back up the high cholesterol = heart attack theory any more. The science also shows that woman over 60 have a lower all cause mortality rate if their cholesterol is higher than those of women on statins who have lower cholesterol.

    https://www.dietdoctor.com/cholesterol-cause-heart-disease

    My husband had a heart attack 7 years ago (100% blockage in the right coronary artery) and had a stent put in – he was 52. I now have him on a low carb, moderate protein, high fat (mainly saturated fat) diet and he’s never been better.

    I will qualify this post by saying I am not a doctor nor am I offering medical advice. I’m simple the wife of a heart attack victim that has read widely to ensue it won’t happen again!

    Cheers
    Linda

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    LindaA thankyou so much for this. I will read on! Interesting how different countries tackle it. If need be I will go private to get more detailed readings (though I had fervently hoped never to have another fasting glucose test that was VILE).

    I was just coming back on here to post this link:

    https://heartuk.org.uk/health-and-high-cholesterol/cholesterol-tests—know-your-number

    Which indicated I am (just) below the Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio which is considered high risk (6). They talk about triglycerides here too, so your post is timely as no mention of those yet. To be fair, I only spoke to the receptionist so far and she was just reading from screen and I think she’s new as she didn’t know what the blood sugar test was called.

  • posted by Joes Nonna
    on
    permalink

    JackieM. My husband was put on statins at the age of 44. I queried it at the time as his Cholesterol was only 6. Doctors told me it was because he had high blood pressure. Again in my opinion not very high. He was never overweight, and 20 years of never having a reading above 5 and after taking the statins, had to have a Endarterectomy (his carotid was blocked with cholesterol). They had to open the vein and clear it out, whilst he was awake!. Two years later he had a heart attack and had to have stents fitted. Again it was cholesterol build up.

    Cholesterol is made in the Liver. It has been proved time and time again, that what we eat does not affect it. However, what we eat can affect the Liver. I have refused Statins for 10 years now and 8 years ago a Doctor told me I would have a stroke or be dead in 5 years if I didn’t take them. Guess she got that wrong.

    Again, I am not a medical expert and can only give you anecdotal information.

    If I were you, I would read up on as much information as you can. If I am recommended a medication I google the name and add forums. People will give you real information about side effects etc than the pharmacies do. I would also see what the results are in 3 months. I was told tonight that my levels are 5.6 and UK guidelines like them to be less than 5. I again refused statins.

    Good luck.

    Best wishes
    Nonna Mary
    xxxx

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    LindaA – Our life looks very similar to yours, and without the input of the
    AMA we worked out a dietary plan for us for stage 3 heart failure. If you
    have any specific studies on consumption of sat. fats in patients with
    heart attack, coronary occlusion and multiple stenting procedures plus
    implanted defribrilator, I’d be very grateful for that information. Thank you
    in advance,
    Allie

  • posted by Luvtcook
    on
    permalink

    Allie: to your question, no do not use avocado oil Use either light (color) olive oil (not the fine dark green EVOO) or peanut oil (if Asian dish).

  • posted by LindaA
    on
    permalink

    Hi JackieM
    The fasting glucose test I had done was not the horrible 2 hour one where you have to drink the glucose, it was just a blood draw to test glucose levels after I had fasted for 12-14 hours. My doctor wanted to give me the other one but I refused as there was no way I was deliberately putting glucose into my body!

    My sister lives in the UK and she just sent me her results and they didn’t report on the triglycerides at all, just the non HDL reading which includes both LDL and triglycerides which is useless. You may have to go private for those.
    Cheers
    Linda

  • posted by Natalie
    on
    permalink

    Linda I have that 2 hour glucose tolerance test every year (because I had gestational diabetes 11 years ago) and not only do I have to drink that disgusting sugar but I have to “carb load” for three days beforehand to get accurate results. Apparently a lot of clinics don’t do carb loading any more, but mine does. Someone asked why I have the GTT and not a HbAC1 or whatever it’s called and I have no idea. I will discuss it with my new doctor when it comes around this year. My fasting bloods are always fine, it’s only the bottle of sugar that makes me spike and feel very ill.

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    Thank you, LindA for the links that you have posted. Since o/h has done
    so well on our plan, I haven’t thought about doing additional research
    on sat. fat. However, I’m always interested in keeping well informed
    on anything and everything that could have an impact on my husband’s
    long term prospects, so I appreciate having access to more information.

    Best wishes,

    Allie

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Thankyou NonnaMary, learning fast here! Informed anectodate very useful. What a terrrobel experience for your husband. Illuminating thought about the liver, thankyou.

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Linda and Natalie – I did the drink once. Never again. Although it led to diagnosis of insulin resistance, it really does seem bizarre to load an ill person up with what ails them. You don’t get offered that on the NHS, just a blood test. Which is infinitely less disgusting. Presumably the drink is a more sensitive test, or at least a more expensive one? 😳😉

  • posted by LindaA
    on
    permalink

    Hi alliecat
    I also have another resource which is the science page on the 2ketodudes forum which presents a lot of really good information. (It’s also a really friendly bunch of people like the BSD forum!)

    https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/study-shows-replacing-saturated-fat-with-unsaturated-extends-life/7181

    http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2530902

    http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486365?resultClick=1

    https://profgrant.com/2017/03/10/what-really-happens-to-saturated-fat-on-a-low-carb-diet/

    http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/offbeat/controversial-claims-that-saturated-fats-do-not-cause-heart-disease-condemned-by-specialists-1-8514558

    I could go on forever (but I won’t!)

    Cheers
    Linda

  • posted by LindaA
    on
    permalink

    Hi alliecat
    Last one I promise!

    Dr Malcom Kendrick in the UK is an expert on cardiac health and cholesterol.

    Here’s his latest blog:

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2018/01/12/what-causes-heart-disease-part-44/

    As an aside, it was my 58th birthday this week and we celebrated last night with some friends with a BBQ dinner. I only ever serve BSD friendly foods to guests as I don’t want to be the cause of ill health in my friends.

    I served up a lovely salad with macadamia nut oil as the dressing (which everyone loved) and BBQ scotch fillet steak and Atlantic salmon and I finished off with this fabulous Keto friendly cheesecake for dessert served in individual drinking glasses.

    http://www.gnom-gnom.com/no-bake-keto-cheesecake-the-classic/

    Im not a big substitute sugar person but I make exceptions for Christmas and birthdays, but I only ever use Erythritol – here’s a conversation chart I found if anyone needs it – https://www.wholesomeyum.com/natural-low-carb-sweeteners-guide-conversion-chart/

    Anyway, plenty of of food for everyone! Funny thing was, when dinner was served one of the guests said “where’s the bread?” My husband just turned around and said “you won’t find bread in this house!”

    Everyone just laughed and kept eating, no one cared!

    I will say that I had 2 glasses of Moët & Chandon (first alcohol I’d consumed since July). I honestly could have taken it or left it, I just don’t seem to have to craving for alcohol anymore. It’s nice to know that I don’t feel the desire anymore.

    Have a lovely weekend everyone! It’s going to be another hot one here today, time to get in the pool for a swim!
    Cheers
    Linda

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Linda, thanks for all these, I love the bottom line ‘don’t blame the butter for what the bread did’. Still learning, still reading, still trying to work out what will work for me.

    In the UK the Kendrick book is on kindle for 99p. It’s very readable!

    It’s so hard to know at the outset what is good science and what is formed by self interest/financial gain. You have to believe that on balance the NHS would want people to be healthy, there’s plenty of stuff to spend money on other than obesity and statins, but I guess their advice has to be sufficiently tested before they will chance it and with a long term view. Which leaves us trying it out for ourselves.

    The more I read the more I wonder if I just have high cholesterol – it’s so high, and I don’t drink/smoke/am not overweight (now!) and do exercise regularly and did even when fat. It’s been a couple of months since I was eating a lot of processed meat etc. My only saturated fat vices are cream, cheese, butter and the fats in in unprocessed food like avocado, and (organic/free range) meat or fish. And seeds/nuts.

    So, my current plan is to keep the (organic) butter and the (organic) cream, but mindfully, for now bin the cheese (I’d quite like to reduce by a couple more Llbs so this is not a drama) and up the natural nut/seed/veg for fibre and for fat. I just found out I like almond milk (used to hate it) so I may have that instead of cream for a bit.

    Also, I’m going to try and extend my fasts a few times a week. Currently I go 15 or so hours, but if I keep busy I reckon I could do 17 in time as standard on non exercise days.

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Hey Alliecat, hows the weight gain going? What a weird thing to write on a weight loss forum!

  • posted by Theodora
    on
    permalink

    Jackie, I wonder if you watched Trust Me this week? They did an experiment on which fats improved cholesterol most – olive oil, butter or coconut oil. Over the month of the experiment, olive oil and butter came out very similar, but coconut oil came out way ahead, both in reducing the bad and (LDL) and increasing the good (HDL). So may be worth trying? The subjects took 3tbs a day in any way they wanted, (including cooking with it)

    And yes, how’s the weight going now, Allie? I hear you are having positively balmy temps there atm? 😉

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Hi Theodora, I didn’t see it but had read a transcript and coincidentally had just rediscovered our jar of coconut oil, so I have fried my veg with it a couple of times. I am still getting used to the slight sense of coconut it gives (not strong enough to use the word ‘taste’). After your post I will definitely aim to increase the amount I eat, I had not realised it was that much (tendencies to skim read and just take the big idea, not the detail).

    I wondered about that test, as it did seem to show butter made things a bit worse, whilst olive oil was neutral. Which does seem to go counter to some of BSD/Kendrick eat al thinking. Did you read it like that too? Or is that my skim reading again?

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    Thank you LindaA, for taking the time to type out all of these links.
    I’m very much in your debt. I’ve bookmarked them all to be printed
    out so that I can study the material in depth and be prepared to discuss
    the findings with o/h’s cardiologist at his next appt. I wish there were
    preventitive cardiologists in our area, but they all seem to run their
    own clinics, mostly in other parts of the country (USA). I’m happy for
    your husband that he hasn’t had another cardiac incident.
    Happy Birthday 🙂

    Much appreciation,

    allie

  • posted by johnbaird
    on
    permalink

    Excellent thread, following the principles, using the basic ingredients but allowing occasional I’m eating out/it’s christmas day type exceptions is working for me. A protein and vegetable based diet without spuds/rice and pasta which were the mainstays of my previous long term habitual diet is easy and I genuinely prefer it now, 4 months in.
    A real life-changer for me, at 51 my HbA1c levels categorised me a s a type 2 diabetic, 8 weeks later low normal levels.

  • posted by alliecat
    on
    permalink

    It IS weird, Jackie, and also probably inappropriate for a weight loss
    forum, also. I think all of us are here to gain control over our eating
    habits and health, so it’s very disconcerting to realize that I have some
    way to go in feeling confident that I know what to expect on the scale
    each week. I think my anxiety was further exacerbated by the fact that
    o/h underwent surgery for colon cancer in 2017. In my moment of
    “panic” early in the week, I completely forgot that I had had a major
    g.i. upset that must have thoroughly dehydrated me also. I’m happy
    to report that the 3 lbs. have subsequently been regained. Lovely
    of you ask Jackie, and I sincerely appreciate your concern. 🙂

    Have a wonderful weekend, everyone!

    Allie

  • posted by Theodora
    on
    permalink

    Allie, that is SUCH good news. Really pleased to hear that you have a solid reason for the extra weight loss and now have it back under control.

    I cannot imagine how stressful your husband’s illness must have been, and so pleased to hear you are both in much better health now. My o/h is robustly healthy (or so we think) but I still worry about his eating/drinking choices, as he seems to assume he is invulnerable, and banks everything on the fact that his parents both lived well into their 90sm (his father is, in fact, still going strong, at 97).

    As far as extra weight loss is concerned, I really feel you are my sister-in-arms, as we seem to be the only 2 on this forum (happy to be proved wrong) who struggle to maintain our weight from dropping too much, not from increasing. Indeed, last evening, not only did I participate in wine whilst out for dinner, I also consumed more than my fair share of vegetable crisps, plus a 3 course meal (no refined carbs obviously) only to have the scales record a half pound drop this morning! If you weren’t on this forum, struggling with the same issues, I would feel very isolated. But, I have never eaten a healthier diet, and never ever felt as well and as energetic – at least not since I was a BYT, which was many, many years ago!

  • posted by JackieM
    on
    permalink

    Hi there – Allie pleased there was a reason. I don’t think inappropriate – we are all in different places and it’s always helpful to hear other people’s ups and downs and realise one size doesn’t fit all xx

Please log in or register to post a reply.