Thanks. SaltySeaBird sounds interesting.

A bit late but at 8pm tonight on channel 4 (UK) there is yet another eat well program but I do respect tonight’s presenter Dr Van Tulleken. May just be interesting.

SSB, you make a very interesting observation with your post! I began to
get on track not only for weight loss, but to try and make improvements
to our WOE due to O/H diagnosis of stage 3 heart failure in 2016. I didn’t
care for all of the protein and animal fat on the keto diet, but I borrowed
the concept of <20 gm of carbs from it, added lots of above ground
vegetables, and arrived at my version of the BSD. No white stuff, of
course! There is no knowledge of the BSD or MMosley in the USA, and
I didn’t even find this forum until I was at goal. Subsequently, I’ve met
a group of marvelous and committed friends here, and they have been so
generous in sharing their knowledge of “maintenance” with me, and
I’m happy to say that I’m proceeding on my journey of 8 1/2 months
in maintenance, after a loss of 150 lbs. In the past, I’ve always been
adept at weight loss, but maintaining that loss has been another thing
entirely. I’ll look up Sisson, thanks!

Allie

Hi Alliecat, you seem to have sorted yourself out amazingly – with or without BSD,well done!
Mark Sisson is American – I think he’s from Maine but now lives in Florida. I originally came across him, strangely, because MM referenced Mark’s Daily Apple in his 5:2 book (Mark is big on IF). I have been following him for years and find his advice sensible and well researched.
SSB

I have just watched the Dr Van Tulleken program and really enjoyed it. He is a great presenter. Not a lot new really but they tested six diets, two crash , two six week and two four month . Two different diets in each group and needless to say they all lost weight, as you would on a restricted diet. Would be interesting to see how well they all ‘maintain’ the losses though!

It’s worth signing up for emails from Myfitnesspal even if you don’t use that site for counting/logging etc. Today there is an article ‘The 11 Most Common Weight-loss Blunders Dieticians See’ which is certainly worth a read.

I watched that programme last night also, V. What about him (supposedly) having his belly fat rendered down by those waves? Pfffft! Fair play to putting it to the test but he certainly wasn’t convinced was he? 🙂 At least I didn’t feel like screaming at the tv unlike last week! 🙂

Thanks for the tip on the article….. I’ll check it out.

Kx

It’s relatively easy (well, not impossible), I think, to lose the weight. However, I have noticed that thin people actually seem to put a huge amount of effort into STAYING thin. You can never, ever again let your guard down because if you eat food without exercising caution you regain those pounds, so you need to accept that permanent control is how thin people live. One day “off” a week or month can rapidly turn into almost every day.

One small step I have taken is to always drink jasmine tea rather than booze with Chinese food. I’m working on the need/taste for lager with curry, but that’s a work in progress.

I must say I find the thought of lying there and having my fat cells heated to the point of destruction nothing short of terrifying, especially after seeing what it did to the pork!

Hi Dipgal, I think you could definitely say I made a success out of using a combination of methods, I still mix and match them now in maintenance, proving what a wise choice of name I made 😀 I have used 5:2, 4:3, 2:5 and one round of full blown 800/40 for 8 weeks, and have since used 16:8, full fast for up to 40 hours, 6:1, 5:2 and reverse dieting to keep my metabolism guessing. It seems to have worked to an extent, I have been in maintenance for over 13 months now, although I am heavier now than I was at one point, it is because I prefer it that way not because I have lost control. I also used a plant based only low carb and low protein fasting mimicking diet for 5 days that seemed very effective, and intend to redo that one every six months or so (round two coming up in the next couple of weeks).

I second Verano’s recommendation of the Diet Doctor site.
(And I also didn’t want my only contribution to this thread to be Tom Kerridge bashing. 😀 )

Its not a site I really follow or read deeply but I do find the infographics of carb levels really useful.

Like this one
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/drinks

They’re also handy for explaining my madness to friends and co-workers.
And the fact I’m on low carbs not NO carbs. 🙂

I’d love these diet programmes to get back the people from the previous year and see how they’re doing now. I suspect most are al least as heavy as they were before they started.

Did you see the thing on superfoods last night? It was very irritating to watch, but the small amount of advice was quite sensible. I can sum it up for you – fruit and veg is good for you, but don’t smooth masses of fruit or you’ll be drinking too much sugar. Also eat a wide range of healthy foods, including oily fish.

Well said Squidge! I started to watch the program but just got bored.

For anybody interested there is a second helping of Tom Kerridge tonight if you can stand it! But, it will be followed by another slice of Trust me I’m a Doctor, much more palatable!

Just caught a snippet of Tom Kerridge – baked apple on pastry and a dish served with white rice! Have the state food police kidnapped his family…..? 😡
SSB

He is so annoying. Smugly announces that he lost his weight by cutting out carbs, but makes money telling others to eat low fat, even going to the lengths of recommending that awful 1 cal per spray oil. Talk about do as I say, not as I do. His scrambled eggs looked quite nice though, as did the courgette fritters.

…and MM next week talking about carbs for breakfast or carbs for dinner – really?!

Reminds me of a very early Simpson’s quote:

Bart:
How could you, Krusty? I never lend my name to an inferior product.

Krusty:
(gasps and sobs) They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house! I’m not made of stone!

At least Krusty had the decency to take the campers to the happiest place on earth … Tijuana! When Tom Kerridge shoes up at my door with a bus full of y’all and sombreros aplenty, then and only then will I forgive him. 😆

Lock the door Esnecca, the only food on the bus is tacos, rice and low fat cheese sauce!

…bleh! 🤮

In all seriousness though, in this episode he revealed one of his dieters has type 2 diabetes. That was just before the low fat puff pastry, apple and maple syrup puds!

The episode opened with his low fat pasta dish because “The pasta isn’t the problem it’s the sauce ” Argh!

I could go on but I won’t. I did feel sorry for the nurse who plans to loose a load of weight before her wedding and a honeymoon cruise. I’ve never been on a cruise but all I ever hear is it’s like being at a feeding trough all day.

Martymonster I have cruised and you aren’t ‘force fed’ and there are healthy options so weight gain isn’t inevitable. In fact I’ve even lost weight on a cruise!

The problem I see with the program is that it’s more of the same …. low fat, keep eating what you always eat but less, have treats etc etc. And I suppose for the majority of people who don’t have diabetes this may work. Although, it seems that many people do regain weight in the long term because they go back to ‘normal eating’. As they say ‘ if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got’!

In some ways having diabetes makes it easier to stay in control. The science shows that low carb healthy fat eating can reverse T2 . But if you want to keep your diabetes at bay, and all the nasties that come with it, you have to make a life choice and keep eating this way.

I’m afraid I can no longer watch these programs because they actually annoy me now.

I do apologise Verano. I didn’t mean to disparage all cruise goers and I realise my trough imagery was completely insensitive, especially on a weight loss forum.

No apologies necessary and in fact many cruisers do force feed themselves!

What I was trying to say – and said very badly – is that if she does have success on this diet which doesn’t really change eating habits, or cull the desire for sugary treats and then heads off on a cruise where bad food is aplenty I don’t fancy her chances.

I say this as someone who got down to their ideal weight for their wedding on WW points and then eat all around me in Paris for a week.

I realise my main contribution to this forum has been moaning about this show. It’s only because I have had ‘success’ with WW which is a very similar mindset only to put it all back on again. I’m not diabetic and I’m lucky to be close to my ideal weight but I’ve been see-sawing for years with the high point gradually getting higher until I was properly overweight.

The BSD has been a revelation as I’ve managed to nearly loose it all and more importantly keep it off. That’s why I’m annoyed with this show. I feel like it’s leading people down the same frustrating road I was on, by someone who should know better!

Just browsing the BBC’S news website and noticed headlines for the Daily Express today. “Drug free way to fight diabetes” 4 month plan to reverse type 2 diabetes! Well, well well. Maybe the NHS is catching up. Hope so everyone X

Hi Tillybud, yes I saw that and thought ‘yey! They’re catching up’ …but… it only emphasises very low calorie, not low carb. I worry that people will cut their calories but keep all the rubbish carbs, fail miserably because they’re hungry all the time and then say it doesn’t work.
SSB

Saltyseabird; oh no not again. Where is prof Roy Taylor? Why isn’t his voice louder or his platform bigger? It’s still up to us then to show others by example that it can be done. I’m not diabetic but feel completely evangelical about this way of eating on behalf of all the others who are and have had and are having fab success with it. Captain lynne Esnecca, Theodora, alliecat, kazzee, nonna Mary, sunshine girl, verano and apologies to anyone I’ve missed – you know who you are. And if the amazing canada liz is still out there please come back when you’re ready were all linking arms waiting to get in your kitchen for a cup of tea! 😊😉Good luck on the onward journey ladies. I’m up half a pound on yesterday, but could be the hot cross bun I sneaked yesterday 😜😟my own worst enemy!

Martymonster I think that is the crux of the matter …. you need to change eating habits. Neither WW nor SW or all such similar diets do that, which has led to , most of us here, spending many, many years yo-yoing. I think most of us have gone from one diet to another only to end up heavier than before. This WOE is a revelation but it also takes a lot of willpower to make it a permanent change. I think it becomes easier when your taste buds change and you no longer ‘crave’ carbs.

Unfortunately there is no money to be made by the dieting industry if they allow us to lose weight permanently. So why would they help us to change our eating habits? The only organisation to ‘make money’ by permanent weight loss are the NHS who save by treating fewer people with diabetes and it’s baggage, and other weight related problems!

We’ll said verano!

The report was based on prof Taylor’s work but of course he used meal replacement shakes so he could more accurately measure what people were eating so the low-carb bit didn’t enter into it. To me though, it’s common sense – starchy carbs are very low nutrition and are really just cheap fillers so if you go very low calorie and still need all your nutrients, the carbs have to go – it’s just that no-one actually says that. I think it was MM, working from Prof Taylor’s work but wanting to make it doable for every day, who looked at cutting the low value carbs – hence this fab website.
I think the NHS, Public Health England and all the rest are just terrified of coming out and admitting that the low fat message of the last 4 decades might actually be wrong, even though many studies now have shown it to be failing.
SSB

If you think the ‘authorities’ are not doing anything to improve our health then I have just dragged up an extract from a paper I read in 2016 by the Public Health Collaboration UK as follows:-

Public Health Collaboration on Healthy Eating Guidelines and Weight Loss for the United Kingdom. The site is phcuk.org, an official government site for public health.
Conclusion on page 24 said in 2008 “Evidence from this systematic review demonstrates that low-carbohydrate/high-protein diets are more effective at 6 months and are as effective, if not more, as low-fat diets in reducing weight and cardiovascular
disease risk up to 1 year. More evidence and longer-term studies are needed to assess the long-term cardiovascular benefits from the weight loss achieved using these diets.” That was in 2008
Finally, in February 2016 the fourth specific analysis was published in the British Journal of Nutrition finding that “Compared with subjects on low-fat diets, subjects on low-carbohydrate diets experienced significantly greater weight loss, greater triglycerides
reduction and greater increase in HDL-cholesterol after 6 months to 2 years of intervention.”
So between 2008 and 2016 the medical advice on nutrition has changed from thinking low carb might be a good idea to 2016 concluding it is a great idea. They go on to say that they are concerned that NICE are not taking up this advice and, in particular, still advocating high carb, low fat diets when it has been shown that low fat leads to fatter people. Apparently NICE are waiting for trial to end so phuk have carried out their own trials and their final final conclusion is:
In light of this scientific evidence the Public Health Collaboration recommends thatthe guidelines for weight loss in the UK should include an ad libitum low-carbohydrate-high-fat diet of real foods as an acceptable, effective and safe approach”

That is why the medical profession is not interested – I am with them partly as this is so new it could turn out to be another fad but we know different. My doctor says I am saving the French health service around €150 a month as I have reduced the amount of medications and medical equipment required each month (normally around €300 per month for meds so cut by half). I said, imagine how much it could save if all of your diabetic patients were on this diet. His view is, wait and see.

I wholeheartedly agree with you all. In fact I watched Tom Kerridge last night and moaned the entire way through it, and o/h said “but, you have to admit, it’s obviously working” True – but ANY low cal diet will work while you are on it! We all know that, but we cannot spend our lives on a “weight loss diet” so a new way of eating HAS to become a way of life. How will this ever happen when he is encouraging people to have rice pudding, burgers in buns etc? This is why I have never used substitutes – I know there are low carb bread recipes etc out there, but frankly I wanted to wean myself off bread and other white carbs. I have succeeded in doing that and now will happily make a sandwich or a ploughman’s etc for o/h’s lunch and not even be tempted! I’ll just have the cheese and salad elements (or whatever the filling is for that day), it truly is not a problem. I don’t even have things like cauliflower rice – personally (and it IS a personal thing) I would rather eat my cauli raw and crunchy! Just love it, especially with a wonderful dip – guacamole, smoked fish pate etc.

BTW Tilly, on a point of interest, I embarked on this WOL purely for weight loss, and have managed that beyond my wildest dreams (now weigh 8st, BMI 20), and have kept it off, but I was never diabetic, pre-diabetic, or ever had any BG problems.

Hi Theodora and Sunshine Girl,
It’s so frustrating- how many people will unwittingly follow the conventional ‘advice’ and then suffer years of yo-yo weight-loss, a feeling of failure and depression (as many of us have) simply because the authorities won’t update their thinking in line with research. IMO – Tom Kerridge needs a good slap!
SSB

Very interesting s-g. I guess there’s no point in having a body such as NICE and then ignoring their advice. Although, sometimes they do seem to move very slowly. I’m sure that there will always be some people who adapt better to this WOE than others.

I always have in my mind my own experience with hip resurfacing that, at the time around 2000, was the best thing since sliced bread. But, it hadn’t been endorsed by either NICE or the American equivalent. It was available here and people were travelling from far and wide for this new ‘experimental ‘ device. It worked well and gave lots of people their ‘life’ back again. For me I discovered, to my cost, that if it needed replacing it was far more difficult than with a standard full hip replacement. Further down the line still there were found to be many faulty devices which ended with a huge class action in the US. Today there is constant concern about metal particles entering the bloodstream because the device is ‘metal on metal’. Most hip surgeons don’t use the system anymore.

Now I’m not saying that there could be such problems with eating this way but in truth we really don’t know what we are doing to our internal organs, hair, nails etc. by more or less excluding a whole group of food. I’m prepared to take the chance because my diabetes is in remission but who knows down the line? I think part of me agrees with your French doctor s-g we will all have to wait and see.

Hiya lovelies….

S-G – so pleased to read your post, it’s very positive that the “authorities” are seeing low carb as a great idea at last.
How long do we have to wait though for something to stop being a potential “fad” I wonder? With me, what clicked, was understanding what goes on inside my body in response to consistent over consumption of refined carbs/sugars. Once I had that knowledge and experienced the health benefits, I felt like I’d got a permanent get-out-of-jail card!

SSB – I’ve admired TK for being on board with LCHF WOL. I don’t know how he can look those desperate volunteers in the eye as he ladles out pasta carbonara and apple puff pastry tart!

Kazzee xxx

Hi KazzUK unfortunately that report is over 3 years old so not much notice has been taken of its findings. In some ways I want the world to know about this way of eating but then again, being selfish, I am happy that I know about it. I also know from personal experience that it is hard to convince people. I have just seen a post on Facebook by my brother with a picture of a plate of Slimming World curry and rice, the curry is about 1 third of the plate and the rice is 2 thirds. I put a comment on saying, throw away half of the rice (I dont stop others from eating carbs) and he said ‘no way that is the best this about SW, I dont have to give up carbs’, How much has he lost, half a stone in 2 weeks, the same half a stone he up on over Christmas and same half a stone he was losing up to Christmas. That half a stone goes way back is seems to be his biggest friend LOL. 🙂

Yes, I guess we will have to wait and see, V. I know what excessive refined carb intake does to me, how it makes me feel so I’m happy to take my chances. 🙂

S-G – yes, I do understand. 🙂 . My hairdresser tried to convert me to SW when she commented on my loss and asked what I was doing. I told her about BSD. Her words… “ah, well, that’s the beauty of SW, you can eat loads of bread, pasta, rice etc and feel lovely and full!!”. No point continuing that conversation! I replied with “…. so, booked any holidays this year yet…?!” LOL

Well I have finally managed to get around to watching Trust Me on the effects of coconut oil and the results are good for increasing HDL and have no increase in LDL. Might be worth using a bit in cooking for the small amount of ‘frying’ I do i.e. browning onions for a stew etc.

I agree, s-g. I’ve started using it for cooking too.

I have used it for years as a body moisturiser and just yesterday o/h commented (again) on how soft and smooth my skin is, so much so that recently I have even started using it on my face too. I slathered myself in it when I lost weight and all my skin has tightened up beautifully – no sags under my chin, no more batwings etc. That may have happened with any moisturiser, but coconut oil has done the job beautifully on the outside, so here’s hoping it is as efficacious on my insides.

Hi Theodora. I think the coconut oil will have efficacious results on your insides. (You are what you eat). The skin on my face is much smoother since I started this way of eating than it was before. Not spotty or anything just a bit dry or tight. Now it glows, so I’m told! I use coconut oil in the mornings on my face, not in the evenings as it makes the bedding a bit ‘grey’ and oily looking! Not a good look I feel.

I do use it for cooking but I can’t give up my butter altogether and I don’t think it would be good spread on toast for those who still have the odd slice.

I’m very pleased about the cholesterol side effects! Completely unexpected 👍

Wow Theodora, that sounds fab! I use it a lot in cooking but haven’t really used it as a moisturiser – my skin is very dry so perhaps I’ll give it a go.
Btw – a recent ‘study’ by the American Heart Association claimed that coconut oil is really, really bad and should be avoided – guess who funded the ‘research’? – the makers of Crisco, which, it has to be said has been found to have major, serious health implications I.e – avoid at all costs.
SSB

Hi Theodora,
I used coconut oil as a moisturiser this morning – goodness, doesn’t a little go a long way?, my skin feels very soft now but I do smell very coconutty!
SSB

Hi SSB – yes a little goes a very long way. I do find however that the mild coconut smell disappears as soon as the oil is absorbed.

Just as well – people might think I had piña colada for breakfast 😂

When I was a teenager many girls would rub themselves with coconut oil before sitting in the sun to help get a tan – the opposite of sunscreen! That’s what I associate that smell with. You could almost hear them frying in the Aussie sun. Not recommended, we have such a high rate of skin cancer here. I’m allergic to coconut anyway, inside and out, glad I was never tempted to destroy my skin like that. But I guess in England you don’t have our kind of sun.

UK? Sun? 😂
That’s why we moved to Spain.
Btw, some people claim that when they reduced their carbs significantly, i.e. enough to be in ketosis some of the time, they found their skin much less susceptible to burning – I really have no idea if that’s true but certainly the high-carb, high PUFA diet appears to increase the risk of cancer so perhaps sunburn and high-carb are a very bad combination.
SSB

Hi all

One of my issues on the Fast800 was keeping … erm … regular. My new mission is to get lots of fibre into my diet. (And am now regular just in case you wondered!) Just found this list of low carb/high fibre foods, thought it would be of use:

https://www.verywell.com/high-fiber-low-carb-food-list-2242216

Jackie – Thanks, I’m trying to be mindful about increasing the fibre in my diet so this will be helpful.

Me aGain, maybe wrong thread, but I have v high cholesterol and today have been reading links between that and fibre, which as noted above I had issues with. This suggests high soluble fibre can help cholesterol levels, and somewhere I read if you don’t have enough fibre your liver starts producing more cholesterol to sort out excess bile. So maybe my body is still recovering from that abuse a couple months ago.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/in-depth/cholesterol/art-20045192

Literally nearly out door to see Dr for follow up session, so feel armed with strong arguments about not having statins and fixing self through low carb high fibre diet.

This morning had Greek yoghurt, macadamia nuts, pecans, chia and flaxseeds. Followed by couple slices apple but that was so sweet I couldn’t eat the whole half I had planned. Maybe I’ll shred a quarter once a week or something. Still, the dog liked it 😁

Hi Jackie,

I’ve also got high cholesterol. It was 6.1 in August so will read this with interest. Frustratingly, it wasn’t tested in November when I had my first 3 month Hba1c. The practice nurse told me later I should have asked for it. (Was never told that at my initial appointment!).

Anyway, my focus now, as well as still losing weight, is on getting the balance of my diet right, and improving my cholesterol levels. I’m also going to research it as I go, so will post if I come across anything of interest.
– good luck at the GP.

Hi just wanted to add a bit about cholesterol. Mine had never really been high at 5.2 for as long as I can remember but the GP used to fight with me to take statins. I wouldn’t and didn’t . Eating this way my cholesterol dropped to 4.5, 4.8 , 4.5 and then back up to 5.2 last November after following low carb eating for 16 months. The really interesting thing was that although my total figure had increased my good had gone up and my bad down giving me a ratio of 2. Apparently a ratio of less than 3.5 is good. So things maybe happening even if your total figure doesn’t seem great. Just ask your GP about the two levels anyway.

Thanks for the links Jackie.

I have already reported this in other threads over the last 2 years but worth repeating. When I started this my total cholesterol was in the 6’s, I am on statins at the top allowable dose and my doctor lectured me every visit – do you eat processed meats – no – do you eat lots of cheese – no – and so it went on. Also my triglycerides were always quite a bit over normal so the usual question – do you drink to excess -no. 3 months after starting this plan my cholesterol was down in the 4’s and triglycerides normal. What do you eat he asks – me, oh fats like butter, oils, cheese. He immediately put to test again in 3 months – 3 months later cholesterol 3.2 and triglycerides well under normal (in a good way). He used to test me annually but now includes it every 3 or 6 months when I go for my HbA1c as he cant quite believe it.

On the subject of fibre it is true it can reduce cholesterol which is why oats is good for you, but on this diet in moderation. You can get fibre from lots of roughage type veg like cabbage, kale, lentils, beans, artichokes, quinoa, peas and so on – so dont opt for the wholegrain cereals – most aren’t really wholegrain as it is a marketing word and, again we are on a low carb diet.