Here we are again on our favourite thread , begun by Verano and happily hosted at different times by Allie, SunnyB and Birdy.

It’s a friendly thread open to all . Expect lots of support and advice , a bit of science ( thank you JGwen!) and the occasional (gentle ) nagging !! Feel free to join us and most importantly to stay with us. You will not regret it !

A new week begins , folks, so it’s time to strike out any weekend woes and to embrace the last days of May with confidence and positivity.
Reading the posts today it is apparent that emotional eating and being irresistibly drawn to carbs in times of stress in the hope that they can comfort us is one of the biggest challenges. I agree with Skipping..it’s about finding a healthy relationship with food (often after years of using food as a coping mechanism) We have all been there but together we can find peace with that. It does take time and an element of trial and error…but we CAN all get there. I have shared my experience in the hope that it could help anyone struggling. JGwen talks about the benefits of exercise in dealing with stress .Keep sharing your victories so we can all beat the carb cravings.

Some people seem to have dropped off the thread and I hope they feel they can return ( Amz !!)
I am looking forward to hearing from you all. I know some of you have been busy with family, trips away, Uk bank holiday etc. How does it feel to be back Patricia ? Sunshine girl, hope you had a great family time ?
Niknak, arcticfox , gokiniruth, skipping, keep posting,
Scottishgal how are you ?
Kafin, looking forward to you checking in after your fab weekend !
Enigma…are you more settled with your macros now ?
Sueblue..I think is active on the Roadtrip thread ?
Panda Bear ….ooh Tasmania, sigh, so beautiful !
Puddy and Lolly T, haven’t heard from you for a while ?
erinmc82 , Elky ..keep posting. Don’t go away !
Bee Girl, On a Mission, I know you are not far away !
MerryMelba from Melbourne I must get you to check on my boy to make sure he has enough warm clothes 😉 😉
I know Allie, Esnecca, JGwen ,caronl, Verano, Duckie will be sharing their experience , thank you as always
6T !! Put that fag down !!!
Birdy …big hug xx

Where is bargearsebegone ? FinFrance, Greenbean , shellbob, missmissy ?? AMZ !!!!

Hello
You right Wendy I think we all struggle with emotional eating at times. My O/H has just finished dinner. He had a good portion and instantly started looking for something sweet. So this week I have three targets
1) Think with my stomach not my brain. No ‘oh go on then’s for me!
2) Drink Lots and lots of water
3) Go for a long walk everyday, my daughter is revising a lot for her end of year exams (Y12) at the moment so I’ll make her go with me for a break.
I’m hovering weight wise at the moment and have been for about 10 days. So it’s time to take focus.
Had a lovely day today with the O/H. We drove up to Northumberland to meet my parents who are on holiday. It’s was lovely and no naughty treats for me.

Hi all – popping by as I haven’t been around much for a few days, although have been reading the emails as they come in as it’s so helpful for staying on track.

Busy and stressful weekend but have resisted the call of comfort foods; although I have to say the call seemed weaker and easier to resist than usual, thankfully.

Ended up fasting longer than planned on Saturday – probably 24 hours from Friday dinner to Saturday dinner, as I was out for the day, and it felt very comfortable – reminded me of when I used to do around 60 hour fasts as part of my two days on the 5:2 a couple of years ago. May plan some longer fasts into my schedule in the weeks ahead, if I can.

Saturday was “fun” – took my two lads for a day out, on the train, for the first time in years (I normally drive wherever we’re going) while my husband did his beginner’s beekeeper course. Of course, as soon as we were queue for entry to the thing we were going to, I get a frantic phone call from the allotment committee telling me my bees are swarming, preventing our plot neighbour getting on his plot and can I come and do something. Erm, well, no, not really, I’m 40 miles away! Couldn’t call on husband as he was on the course – which was being run by all the other beekeepers I know, so couldn’t call on them to help either! Spent the rest of the day completely pre-occupied, distracted and impatient with the kids – and to top it all, we got an early train home and went down to deal with the bees but they’d moved on!

Hey that’s bees. Was fun today though – now my husband knows a bit more about what he’s doing, all of us can work the bees together, so my 5 year old got to wear his suit for the first time and join his brother (6) in the apiary going through the hives; he was so well behaved (unusual for him!) and I was so proud of him!

End of week three weigh in tomorrow – will be interesting to see how I’ve got on; dinner tonight has been a lovely chicken breast on a bed of rocket, with balsamic vinegar, pesto on the chicken breast and a sprinkle of grated parmesan. Yum!

Good to hear from you On a Mission ! I have been that person seeking out the demon sugar at the end of a meal, actively anticipating the pleasure of that rather than enjoying what was on my plate..but I have destroyed that demon !!

Hope the revision stays stress free ( if possible) for your daughter….I know about exam stresses. Getting regular breaks is important.

Glad you had a good family day today and wishing you a successful week !

Hi Bee Girl….crikey rearing bees sounds like having wayward children who don’t do as we would like them to !!!
Running off when you are out of sight !

I am sorry that spoiled your day somewhat but you sound resigned to dealing with the unexpected ! Some positives in there all the same !

I will soon be back into my fasting pattern. I enjoy it too .I love the liberating, peaceful feeling it creates. Good luck for your week 3 weigh in !

bee girl, I always thought beekeeping was a serene hobby. Clearly I was wrong.
Thanks for starting us off and rounding us all up Wendleg.
Here’s to a week of healthy enjoyable eating and wearing the same zines or smaller knickers at the end of it

Hi Guys, I tried to post this yesterday but for some reason it disappeared so i’m trying again….

Hi everyone,
I started day one of week 3 yesterday (Saturday), and haven’t been able to get on here since I started but having read a few posts this morning I’m worried that I might not be doing it right and I’m really frustrated. some of the posts are confusing me about autophagy and ketosis.​
I’ve been sticking to under 800 calories a day and logging everything on my fitness pal. I also don’t eat after 8pm and usually have breakfast around 9:30 if I can last that long I definitely leave it 12 hrs min before eating breakfast. It seems as though i’m averaging around 70g of carbs a day. I generally have the overnight oats recipe (15g of oats) for breakfast during the week while i’m at work and the pea and spinach omelette on the weekends. I’m having soup or a veg chilli concoction without root veg but with chickpeas and kidney beans for lunch or dinner.
I’m really confused now as to how I can my carbs lower whilst keeping protein high. I tried to stick to 20g of carbs today to see if I could do it especially while I’m not in work, I’ve hit 47g I just can’t see how you are doing this are you eating fresh air?? I’m not eating bread pasta rice etc. I see food as a functional thing more than pleasurable and am quite happy eating the same things everyday for a week if I make a big pan​

i’m not a great cook and I don’t have the time to be faffing in the kitchen although I have been weighing and logging everything I need simple and quick things to eat if I’m going to stick to it.​

I have noticed some weight loss around my face but nothing dramatic as the book says, I live on my own so cannot weigh myself so am going by bagginess of clothing to measure my progress.

One thing that I can say is that each day I according to my fit bit I am burning all the calories that I intake through exercise alone. I cycle to work every week day and I do a circuit/exercise class three times a week at lunchtime. ​
In the first week I noticed headaches and quite often feel a bit spaced out/ fuzzy headed I haven’t really have any other side effects than that but in the last few days I have been feeling irritated a lot and have noticed a loss of patience with those around me.​
​
I thought that I was going well and that progress was being made, I understand that the most rapid weightloss happens in the first two weeks and now I am worried that I may have jeopardised my success and not lost as much as I should have because of my carb intake that is frustrating me as I feel that I have been trying so hard. I am planning on trying to stick to the diet for the eight weeks as recommended, I am the type of person that would rather not know any weekly specifics re progress etc until the end as if I fell it isn’t working it will demotivate me and I will start to feel like giving up. I thought that I had got a handle on this and that it was working but who ever knew that there were carbs in cauli and broccoli. Any advice would be appreciated as well as recommendations for vegetables that are carb free!​
Sorry if this appears like a big moan its not meant to be, I am enthusiastic about doing the programme and sticking to it especially if I have finally found something that works which it seems to be but I just don’t want to spoil it or hinder my own progress but it is hard on your own. The community on here seems fantastic by the way an invaluable support for everyone

thanks

Enigma, are you a vegetarian?

The oats , beans, peas and chickpeas are all quite carb heavy. The simple answer is if you include these in your diet on a daily basis it’s going to be tough to get low with your carbs. What’s your target weight? You should use that as a guide for your maximum protein. 1kg target weight = 1g protein . Maximum. Eg my target weight is 57kg so I try not to keep to 50.
Tell us more and we’ll help you make it work. You don’t have to get it right 100% of the time but with some tweaks to what you’re eating it might be easier for you.

Good evening everyone from sunny Devon! We have arrived safe and sound and the whole family is here and we have started celebrating a wonderful woman!❤️ Thank you to the lovely Wendy for setting up this weeks thread and rounding us all up, we love you, lovely lady❤️. I may be out of posting but I will be reading. Concentration on the family for a few days as I go into my 9th week. I have got my protein levels down at last and loving OMAD. See you all soon and enjoy your week guys. Love and hugs Birdy 💞🦜

Hi Enigma
I’m no expert and I’m sure JGwen will add to this, but it depends on your body. I can loose weight by sticking to 50g of carbs, others need to go as low as 20g. It all depends on your blood sugar. Also, eating healthy fats really helps too. I loose faster when I have healthy fats. They will make you feel fuller for longer too. Finally, you do need to be drinking lots of water. It’s easy to drop your water intake a few weeks. If you’ve lost so far I think you will be okay. Your weight loss will slow but okay around with your carbs a little. Some people go down to one or two meals a day. I find a 24 hour fast give me a boost. I never thought I could do a 24 hour fast, but strangely, I quite enjoy them now.

Hi Birdy, I take it no melt-down re bunk beds…Hope Devon stays sunny for you all; your Auntie is getting the most wonderfully warm and love-filled marking of her passing. I am still getting my head round 23000 steps in one store, in one shift…6T (aka bot -idiot…) x

Hi Wendleg, thanks for setting up the weekly thread again.

I have been on the WOE for 5 months now, and find it quite easy to adapt to any situation, provided I’m not at a service station in UK. Those places have no real food!

Since returning home, I have enjoyed cooking and baking. In Sardinia it was very easy to stay in ketosis as I ate the fish and antipasti courses, no desserts.

Back at home, I feel like expanding my diet to include an occasional dessert, so tonight that was a slice of frangipane. So far, my treats have been unsalted nuts, so almond cream pie is a departure! It replaced a meal and as it’s composed of eggs, butter, reduced sugar and raspberries it’s very filling. I hope this isn’t going to send anyone off track, and into the nearest bakery, it’s just how I want to adapt my routine at the moment. I find baking quite a mindful activity, and eating a slice of cake I have baked, is very different from the old me that could cram a giant bag of Doritos into my gob.

The current weight goal is to discard another 5kg, so I will complete the weight loss part of the WOE by late June. Then maintenance can begin. I am going to go back and reread the BSD book as many of the long-term aspects went over my head when I started.

Patricia, your post is really interesting. All of us on here I think are finding this WoE so beneficial – but I still can’t understand how, in say 1960s in the UK, when I was little, and even in to the 90s, when I was little weight-wise, white carbs and cake for tea were fine – no one ballooned. Was it just portions or being more active? Or is it the post 1990s and what is going into food, and how people eat? Quite fundamental questions!

I didn’t realise we had been on this for as long as 5 months Patricia! But you’re right…….I started on 7th January so it is almost 5 months. I must admit though that I haven’t been as serious for the last 2 months.
I totally agree with your post. For me this WOE has to be for life and if I had to constantly deny myself then I know it would never last. So yes the odd piece of cake etc now and again is allowable…….although I admit that sometimes I do struggle to keep it to the odd occasion.
Thanks wendleg for starting the weekly thread. Glad your recovery is going well. I too can relate to the emotional eating and really appreciated you sharing your story. It helped me a lot.
Glad you’ve arrived safely birdy. I know it’s not the best of circumstances for a family gathering but it’s a lovely and thoughtful way to celebrate your aunt. Hope it all goes as well as it can. Thinking of you x
After a bad start to the week last week I was really good from Wednesday onwards. I took Friday off work and today was a bank holiday so I’ve had a good long break from work and a great weekend. I’ve also booked a holiday on 6th July (not abroad but still a break away). So, from tomorrow I want to re focus and get back on track to reach target weight before my holiday. The testing time for me is being back at work. I find it so much easier to eat properly while off work but I’m determined to make it work. I did it before and I can do it again!

Hi Everyone
Just popping in to say hello mostly, but I also wanted to seek a little bit of guidance.
Is there a good – reliable – way to check if I’m in ketosis? I understand the pee sticks are pretty hopeless, but is there something else I can use?
I am very carb intolerant, I think, so I am trying to keep below 20g a day but the weight isn’t shifting. (I expect you will tell me I should be focused on measurements but I do have *lots* of weight to lose so I feel the scales should be shifting a little bit.) I am also an old chook – post menopausal – which is inevitably making it harder. Not sure if anyone else here is in that category? Hope so, as I’d really welcome guidance!
Struggling a little bit to get the protein/fat balance right, but it’s pretty close most days. And I’m doing a long-ish fast each week (between 36 and 56 hours so far, depending how long it takes for me to start to feel really nauseous and off. I expect I’ll get better at managing those with experience). Other days I eat breakfast and dinner only, I haven’t eaten lunch during the working week for years, for me it’s an easy meal to miss.
Anyway, by some miracle I’m not diabetic so I don’t have a blood sugar measuring device thingy, not sure if they can be used to see if I’m in ketosis?
I am doing a bit of exercise, the HIT exercise bike stuff from the book, and some weights. I have a damaged Achilles tendon that I am *slowly* recovering from with set exercises and stretching, but I can’t really walk just at the moment.
Anyway, sorry for all the detail I’m not sure what information you need to provide me with guidance about ketosis. I’d really appreciate any advice you can offer as, honestly, I’m feeling a wee bit frustrated just now!!

Hi again Elky
Like you I am an “old chook” 🙂 I do use the pee sticks. I know there is lots of discussion on how accurate they are, but I found they did show me when I had reached ketosis. ( and when I have had a weekend off plan the sticks showed I had come off ketosis! – a spur to get back on track!) Also when in ketosis my energy levels started to increase immediately. If you are 20g carbs you will be in ketosis.

I am sure others will step in with advice here, but I am wondering if you need to be doing such long fasts so early on? I have found that sticking close to 800 cal and 20g or below carbs, combined with an “eating window” works well. I do a 16/8 intermittent fast – so 16 hours of no eating each day (mostly!!). So even though you don’t do lunch, maybe you could have your breakfast later around 10 – 11am and then early dinner around 6-7pm and that would give you a good window. I usually have some nuts and a small amount of cheese mid afternoon. And I have coffee in the mornings. Keeping your body hungry for 36-56 hours I think maybe slowing your metabolism down too much and hence slowing progress. This WOE (way of eating) is for the long term so we each need to find our own way that we can sustain and help ourselves.
cheers – Merry in Melbourne

Hi Everyone
Sorry, should have said in my last post: in terms of measuring ketones, I have seen JGwen’s helpful comments in other posts about breathalysers, but her comments all seemed several months old, so I wondered if she has any updates on her experiences? I think the Keto Mojo device *is* available in Australia, but is it worth it??
Thanks all.

Hi Merry,
Thanks so much for your response. The reason I jumped into longer fasts so early is because nothing was happening without them 🙁
And because, I confess, I read Jason Fung’s stuff about autophagy and managing saggy skin and thought, “right, I’m in”!! I know, I know, you’d think I’d be too old to be vain but apparently not, lol
I understand – and agree with – your point about this being a long term way of eating. At this stage the longer fasts aren’t actually difficult for me. That is, at this stage I can see it being part of a long term approach. But, you know, early days.
I am worried though by your point about slowing metabolism. I thought that if I was in ketosis I wouldn’t slow my metabolism when fasting? That is, my metabolism would be at the same point because it would cheerfully be scrounging its way through my own fat stores and not actually going hungry? (As it were. I do understand my metabolism is not actually a separate entity to me, this is just for illustration!) Or have I hopelessly misunderstood that??
Thanks, Elky

Hi everyone, looking forward to getting this week started on the right foot, and I did not badly at all today. I was really busy in the morning at work and ‘forgot’ to eat breakfast, so I had it at lunch. Then had leftover asparagus soup (really delicious) that I made last night for lunch at 3pm. Came home and had riceless sushi for dinner. I was very hungry and tempted to stop somewhere, but I didn’t as I remembered I had the ingredients for the sushi.
Enigma – please try not to be discouraged. If you keep doing the right things, the weight will shift. Everybody loses at their own rate. I’m not even calorie or carb counting at the moment because I don’t feel it is something I can do with all the other stresses in my life at the moment. I just acknowledge that the weight will only come off slowly or not at all while I’m in this phase and that I’ll get back into the full program when I’m ready. I used to eat oats when I started this program as well, either hot as porridge or as overnight oats. Now I substitute a mixture of chia and flax, sometimes with hemp seeds added in. This really reduces the carb count. It is a matter of finding things to substitute. As a vegetarian and being allergic to soy, I used to have chickpeas all the time. I still occassionally have them in moderation, but a couple of weeks ago I managed to find a tin of lupini beans and they are much lower in carbs. I’m going to make the salad I usually make with chickpeas with them instead this week.
Scottishgal – I really understand about struggling with keeping the cake to the odd occassion. I was eating a lot of cake prior to getting back on plan. It felt so strange to me even as I was doing it, because for years I never had cake at home and would never buy it from the supermarket. I would therefore only have it on special occassions when I was out with friends. In the last couple of years I have missed practically every special occassion with family and friends due to work, my accident and my horse being sick/lame (including 2 Christmases and my mum’s 80th), so I think I have been in someway been trying to make up for those missed celebrations by eating cake. I think I now will tell myself that I will be trying to make it to more special events, so that I don’t need to be eating cake by myself anymore.

Hi 6T, Scottishgal, articfox, on the subject of cake in moderation, and how normal it was in 70s when obesity levels in UK were low.

Dr Fung compares the snacking culture today to the high carb diet of the 70s which was 3 meals a day. With a minimum of 12 hours fasting between the evening meal and breakfast, insulin resistance doesn’t develop.
Eating 6 or 7 times a day is really bad for us. If we are also eating high carb and fat, our organs are working 24 hours and don’t get time to recover.

I don’t have insulin resistance, I drop quickly into ketosis after having a meal with 15g carb. If you have insulin resistance, you need to be able to reduce the insulin that has soared after eating a high carb meal. Any meal with high carb will continue high insulin which stays high.

That high insulin syndrome is a problem that can eventually wear out the pancreas (T2 diabetes with insulin injections required), prevent fat burning, and cause stroke and cardiovascular problems.

The issue isn’t about cake per se, it’s time restricted eating, no snacks between meals and looking at carbs rather than calories. The same things that are discussed every day.

I talked about my enjoyment of baking with butter and sugar and how at this point it integrates with the WOE. If this is going to work in the long-term, it needs to cope with all kinds of different people with different tastes and health issues.

Hi articfox, just read your comment about running after an injury. How long has it been since your injury?
My medical advice asked me to refrain from running for another 2 months, although I’m walking well already. I really miss getting out for a run since I broke my ankle early April.
I’m going to swim again and build up my core so I’m ready.

https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/how-to-get-back-into-exercise-after-injury/?utm_source=international&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MFP_Intl_NL_UI_Weekly_20190527&os_ehash=55@sfmc:1926147
Hi arcticfox this article has just popped into my in box. Haven’t read it but it could be of interest to you. Hope the link works!

I’ve recently bought the recipe book and hope that will help with meal planning – not just what to eat but making sure I buy what we need and nothing else.

When I plan to cook healthy meals and have all the ingredients I almost always do that and we don’t feel the need for anything else. If I’ve not planned properly it’s much harder – I’m more likely to buy high carb foods and I’m more likely to pop out and buy something at the last minute and that’s very unlikely to be low carb.

Elky there are quite a number of ‘golden girls’ on these threads but we are never too old to lose our ‘vanity’!
I will join in again this week but my goal is to stay the same or at worst gain no more than 2lbs. I have very little control over my food this week as we are in a hotel for a few days at the moment, then we have three nights when we are eating out or entertaining, so I just need to be realistic. I will continue to fill in my ‘little blue book’ with the hope that I can stay relatively well focused.
In fact life is rather hectic until the first week in July so I have to just do the best I can. I know that ‘one week at a time’ is theme of this thread but for the moment I think I need to go ‘one day at a time’!
Have a good week everyone.

Hi everyone. I’ve not replied for a while but I have been reading through all the messages. After my triumph at the hen do I fell off the WOE wagon majorly last week. It was all going so well but after a trip to london for work I just lost all control and willpower. The problem was that I had no control or way to plan for the day. It was a freelancer day and they supply you with lunch and dinner and there wasn’t a carb free option in sight. It was all sandwiches and pizza etc. So I gave in and ate normally and then that just carried on until sunday! I gained a little more control yesterday and today I’m back with a vengeance! I’ve found after eating carbs a few hours later I feel really sick. It’s sort of like a car-sick feeling and I’m convinced it’s reactive hypoglycemia as it’s always after carbs. Anyone else get that? While it shows my body is struggling which is a scary thought, this might actually be a good thing as it’ll discourage me from eating junk.
I feel a bit rubbish because in July I’ll have been trying to follow this WOE for a year. And all of you are doing so well and yet I seem to really struggle to do it each week. If I’d actually stuck to it I’d probably be maintaining by now and my insulin resistance would be a thing of the past! Oh well… learning curve I guess.

Oh, also after the comment about waiting for the delivery of The Fast 800 I realised there’s another book out! I’ve been working from the original one. Would you all recommend getting the new one then?

I am 1lb down, heaven knows how as sunshine+garden has = consumption of sauvignon blanc on more than one occasion….You are definitely not alone Lolly, and you had little choice if the only things going were pizza and sarnies. As you say, back with a vengeance! And I am sure I would be one more turkey down at this stage if I had been consistently stricter with myself over the last few months. On the plus side, the discard is progressing, if slowly, and if you had said a few months ago that I would be salivating ahead of supper of simple roasted chicken thigh and some sweetheart/pointed cabbage (a recent discovery for me – don’t know how long the season is), just fried in butter with salt and pepper, I think I would have been unconvinced. So onwards and the new world viticulture industry will hopefully just have to manage without me (I must get myself a little notebook…).

Hi Elky,
I still use one of the cheap breathalysers to measure ketones. – I wouldn’t bother buying a blood tester, because you have to then buy the test strips, so it all adds up. With the cheap breathalyser you can use it as often as you like during a day. So you can produce a clear picture when you start out. On the 1st of May on the the positive thoughts thread I posted a link to a video on how to use the breathalyser which has a clear picture of the model which is widely recommended. – You can get the via Amazon, in the UK it costs about £10.
Personally, I have reached the point where I am finding it easier to fast, so I haven’t been using the monitor as often because if you are fasting for 36 plus hours at a time you will be in ketosis. – The monitors are really helpful if you are still at the stage in your journey where you are starting out, need to know how IR you are and what levels of carbs your body can cope with, and what effect different food products have because you can use it every half hour if you want to pick up the patterns within the day.

Hi LollyT,
I remember seeing a comment on a facebook page a while ago which said.
If you suffered from a peanut allergy and were at a catered event and they served up food with peanuts, would you just eat it, or would you insist on having something different? – Why do think your health problems related to carbs are not as serious as someone who is allergic.
As someone who has been a vegetarian all my life, long before it was fashionable and veganism existed, I have gone through the no meat, no fish, blank looks from restaurant staff who eventually turn up with a plate with grated cheese in the centre and slices of tomato and if luck cucumber around the outside. or the “what about xxxx because it doesn’t have a lot of meat in it” , or what about a meat pizza and picking the meat off routine often. – So I am not embarrassed about putting my foot down and saying I have special dietary requirements.

I think its good to do it actually, now its standard for there to be a vegetarian and vegan option on the menus, but thats only because they know they will loose trade if they don’t offer that option. As the word spreads on the success of this way of eating, those businesses which offer a low carb option will profit, so you are doing them a favour by making them think about it. – But be prepared to have a good laugh about how many chiefs and catering staff there are who don’t know how to read the labels on food to work out the carbs, protein and fat. – I had one guy fully dressed up in whites with the big white hat who tried to tell me that icecream was ok because there were no carbs listed in the ingredients. 🙂

Hi Elky,
I have to head outside because the guests staying in the holiday let are doing something which is stressing out one of the farm dogs, she is barking constantly. But I wanted to quickly jump in to say you are quite correct. You will not be damaging your metabolism by fasting. – How we damage our metabolism is by counting calories but not getting our carb intake down low enough.

If insulin levels are high our bodies can not access our fat stores for fuel. – So after a time of using muscle and other tissue to make up the difference between the calories eaten and burnt, our bodies sensibly decide we are being starved and become more efficient, reducing the number of calories needed each day. – So you get on the roundabout of never ending diets.

If you keep your insulin level low and your body can access your fat stores, there isn’t a shortage of calories and the metabolic rate doesn’t change.

You may have heard of an American TV program, the biggest looser, where they take a group of morbidly obese people into a “house” and with the aid of fitness trainers working them hard and a restricted diet they compete to loose the most weight with the person who looses the least weight each week being evicted and the last one standing getting a large cash prize. They never have a reunion, because they all put the weight back on and more. – Apparently their metabolic rate drops on average by either 500 or 600 calories. _ I can’t remember which – —– I have heard a rumour that some of the x contestants are working with Dr Fung, he is doing some research to see if fasting can be used to reverse the damage to their metabolic rate and plans to publish the results later this year.

————————————

Right, dog has shut up so will continue.

Weight loss rates. – The rapid weight loss some people achieve at the start is because a high carb diet causes our bodies to store fluid. – Cut out the carbs and that fluid is released. – If you are not seeing that rapid weight loss then I guess you must have been low carb before joining the forum?

Your weight will fluctuate by up to 3kg over the course of every day. A litre of water weighs 2.2 lbs, and we are aiming to drink 2 litres a day. Plus the weight of whatever is in your digestive system will vary. 800 cals of cheese weighs a lot less than 800 cals of celery. –

One lb of fat equals 3500 calories. – That means that the average woman has to fast for 2 days to burn off 1lb of fat.

Weight loss isn’t linear. – Our bodies don’t burn the fat out of a single cell at a time, they burn a little bit of fat out of a lot of cells replacing that fat with water, this is repeated, over and over until all the fat is gone from those fat cells and then you have a Whoosh moment, when the water is released, and there is a step change in the readings on the scales. How big these steps are depends on the area of fat cells the body is working on, and that seems be different for different people.

Finally, if you are fasting that means that other hormones are also getting the chance to catch up, including growth hormone which is responsible for bone and muscle strength. – Both of which weigh more as their strength increases.

That is why the scales are not a good way of measuring progress. Far better to monitor with the tape measure and the mirror. – Sadly, our bodies do not always tackle the fat from the places we want them to target. – Fat in organs doesn’t show in the mirror. But its really good for your body to get rid of that. – Quite a lot of use who had a lot to loose have reported changes in shoe size, and collar bones tend to emerge before hip bones.
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I hope those bullet points help answer your questions. If I have missed anything then please shout out.

Ohh, one thing I was going to say was to agree with another poster, if you having two meals a day, breakfast and lunch or lunch and evening meal is better than breakfast and evening meal. – The longer the period between insulin spikes from eating the better.

Thank you 6T we have done all the sandwiches done for the wake and sun is shinning and there have been a few rainbows 🌈 today which is lovely. I hope all you guys have a good day. Birdy 💞🦜

wendleg – in general, the bees behave much better than my kids! There’s a saying that no matter how many books you’ve read on beekeeping, the bees have always read a different one ! It’s so true – they keep you on your toes; I just try to remember that it’s the bees that are always right and it’s me that needs to learn to work with them, not the other way round.

Skipping – beekeeping is relaxing, honestly, despite how it might sound! It’s just that I have terrible anxiety around inconveniencing people or ‘being in trouble’ so I get stressed about the people, not the bees. All stems back to a neighbour dispute more than 15 years ago; funny how you never get over some stuff and it changes you to the point it impacts how you react to things forever!

So, weigh in at the end of week three today – another 4lb off. That’s 17.4lb in three weeks, which is very encouraging.

24 hour fast for me until dinner tonight as I want to have a higher calorie meal – trying to do a variant on beef stifado, with added feta.

H1, BeeG1rl! You’ve wr1tten such an 1nterest1ng and 1nc1teful post today! ! certa1nly agree that a traumat1c event
can alter the way that we perc1eve and 1nterpret the world around us 🙂 Some bele1ve that 1t can actually alter
our bra1n chem1stry. But then, the human bra1n 1s the last “front1er”, 1sn’t 1t? 1t’s no acc1dent that 1 grew 1nto a
card carry1ng perfect1on1st, and an all or noth1ng type! Oddly enough, that made the BSD eas1er for me than most,
because 1 recogn1zed that do1ng th1ngs “1n moderat1on” was completely al1en to me. Thanks for your post 🙂

All1e

Hi folks,
To add in to the discussion about the difference between the start of processed food in the 60’s and 80’s and the development of white bread / eating cake. – Its a topic I was thinking about a while ago, and then I saw a re-run of a program on the BBC where in every episode they showed the changes in the food available / eating habits of people.
To take a step back, my mother grew up in the era pre the welfare state. She was young when her father died, and her mother worked hard to keep a roof over their heads. On a good day, a meal always included lots of potatoes, or pastry, or bread to help fill you up. On other days her mother would lie and say she had already eaten when she couldn’t afford enough food for them all to eat. So while there were a lot of carbs, there was a time gap between meals.

I think of the changes in the diets as coming in a few steps. There was the invention of breakfast cereals in the 60’s. There was also the sliced white bread in the 60’s but my guess would be that initially the bread was similar in ingredients when they started mechanised production to what it was like before. It was only later that the ingredients changed to reduced costs and increase demand through carb cravings.
The first of the ready meals were in the 70’s but that was dehydrated food.

I think it was the 80’s and 90’s where the rot set in with the demonising of fat, and changed to health guidelines that eating a high carb diet was good for us. –

That TV program on the changes of eating habits did set me thinking though. – Do you know that most horse feed has sugar added to it, not because the horse needs sugar, but because it causes the horse to be eager to eat and to lick the bowl clean, which encourages the horse owner to buy more of the same brand. – So how much of that method are food manufacturers applying to us?

Eating out used to be maybe a once a month treat, and every meal was made at home from the ingredients back in the 60’s. Even the food we took to work or school. – Now we don’t make up sandwiches to take to work, but effectively eat out every day. We don’t cook for ourselves but buy preprepared meals, with preprepared sauces.

Even what we drink has changed. – the endless cups of tea of my childhood were with normal milk, all this semi- skimmed, and skimmed milk which has a bigger insulin hit than normal milk wasn’t even invented.

That’s really interesting JGwen. I remember my mum used to cook for example spag bol as family supper; it was really good, just onion, mince, tinned toms, dried herbs and a stock cube with water; now we’re all told that (sugar laden) sauces in jars are so convenient, when in fact prep and cooking time is pretty much exactly the same. Amazing about the horse feed. BeeGirl, will your bees come back to the hive or has the queen decided to take them on a permanent move?

Hi enigma,
First of all you don’t need to be high protein and low carb. – Its about low carb, moderate protein, and healthy fats. – As others have said, the pulses are going to be high carb. – If you want other ideas for meals then the diet doctor site has a good reputation.

This is a really simplified explanation, which I hope will help clear up any confusion for you on why its important to focus on your level of carbs, and what ketosis is.

While this diet is called the Blood Sugar Diet, really that’s a misnomer. What is really important is controlling our insulin response to what we eat. – The amount of sugar that our bodies can cope with in the blood stream is much smaller than most of us imagine. – We are used to seeing scientific figures on the amount of sugar in our blood stream. – If we convert that to teaspoons it makes it much clearer. The difference between normal, and diabetic blood sugar levels is the equivalent 1/4 of a teaspoon of sugar dissolved in the 5 litres of blood of an average adult. – https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2005/08/31/a-spoonful-of-sugar/

As soon as we eat anything which contains carbs our bodies raise insulin to move the sugar from our blood stream into the tissues. Because high levels of sugar in the blood causes damage to the body. so sugar has to be got out of the blood quickly. ———- – As we eat more and more carbs our bodies have to work harder and harder to find space for them in the tissues, and eventually the tissues are reluctant to accept any more. – So the body raises insulin levels higher to force the tissues to store the sugar. –
In time you reach the point of being Insulin Resistant, because your body has to produce more insulin and longer to handle carbs than someone who is not insulin resistant. Which gets to the point that your insulin levels have not dropped down before you eat your next meal.
Finally the body can simply not produce enough insulin to force the tissues to make room for any more sugar and blood sugar levels start to rise.

—————————
Insulin also works like a switch, when high the body uses sugar as a fuel, when low our bodies can burn the fat stored. – When your body is using fat as a fuel it produces ketones, so the fancy name for being in fat burning mode is ketosis.

To heal we need to keep the level of carbs that we eat down enough to allow our bodies to get rid of all the carbs it has stored, and get back to a normal insulin response. Some one who is insulin resistant will be in fat burning mode if they have less than 20g of carbs a day. –

——————–
I understand how difficult it is to get your head around the carb levels and the changes to ways of eating. – I didn’t think I could get down to under 20g of carbs when I started. – I just dropped out the big carb sources , bread, rice, potatoes, pizza, chocolate and was so pleased with my progress that I wanted to keep on going. I used the fatsecret app on my mobile phone and simply used it over to time to learn about switching ingredients to reduce the level of carbs.

In the short term its not so important if you need to take it in stages, but if you continue cutting out calories without getting carbs low enough to be in fat burning mode your body can not make up the short fall in calories from your fat, and you are just following a normal yoyo diet program, running the risk of causing your body to reduce your metabolic rate.
—————————————————————————–
If you have a lot of weight to loose, more than 100lbs, then autophagy is something that will be important to you. But otherwise, for now I would forget about that and just get used to modifying your diet to get the carbs down.

Ohh, and sorry, I hope this doesn’t add to your confusion, but there is one tweek you need to know. Artificial sweetners have the same effect on insulin levels as sugar. – So diet drinks and keto desserts need to be off the menu as well while you heal.

I hope that helps, but if it raises more questions than answers please shout out for help and one of us “golden girls” will be along.

6T – when bees swarm, they might to a practice swarm and return to the hive, but usually they head for pastures new. The old queen leaves with a portion of the flying bees and the nurse bees that are left rear a new queen(s) (usually the new queen will be in her cell half way through developing when the old queen goes). I’m quite confused though, as I went through my hives yesterday and found queens (or evidence of them!) where I expected queens; haven’t quite worked out what happened yet as not sure where the swarm came from! Heh, bees, they like to keep you guessing!

So, after a bit of advice re fasts longer than 24 hours please. I understand bone broth is allowed, along with water and black coffee – my question is, if I don’t have time to make the broth myself, is bone broth concentrate a viable alternative? I’ve seen a few on Amazon, so am wondering.

I’ve been pondering things today. About 12ish years ago, I spent a couple of years going from 22st to 10.5st (not keto), took up running and grafted hard for every pound lost. Every pound lost made me feel slimmer – I think because of the time and effort involved. Of course, most of that went back on bar about 3st. Last year I lost some weight and got to about half a stone below where I am now. I felt a lot slimmer then, than I do now (psychologically – physically I’m sure I’m similar); again, I think because of the time and effort. I think I’m struggling to accept the weightloss because I don’t feel I’ve earned it. It’s not that this is ‘easy’, just that I’m losing so much more, quicker, and without exercise. I know the science about why and I know it’s early days and I’ll adapt mentally (hopefully) but does anyone have any advice to help my mind keep track with my body?

Sorry for the long ramblings!

Hi JGwen, if carbs and protein levels are ok, can you say what the impact of fats are? I ask because although I haven’t generally been counting, I decided that today I would tot up, after the event. It was a bit unusual as had some cheese, a bit more than I would usually have. And generous with avocado at lunch. And I think I’m a bit heavy handed on the olive oil ….and used butter for cooking delicious cabbage. Anyway, carbs at 25.2g, protein (with the excess cheese) 62g – which is give or take a cple of kgs my target weight in kg (I started off at 86kg, now just under 73) but cals were defo in four figures, because of the fats. So I suppose my question put briefly is that even though there is a very significant deficit in cals from previous eating habits, and carbs and protein might be ok, what is effect of the fats (some from oil and avocado, others dairy)? Hope it is not a stupid question!

BeeGirl I complete get where you’re coming from. I felt the same at christmas. I’d lost 3 stone pretty quickly, where in the past it had taken me 8 months to lose just 2 stone and it didn’t quite feel real somehow. Like I couldn’t trust it. Plus I still had so far to go, so overall I just didn’t feel as positive as I should have. 5 months on and I’ve gained a third of it back and really struggling to stay on track, so I think it’s important to be careful of this. Perhaps we need to pay more attention to how we feel rather than focusing on the amount lost? After all the weight loss and gain is just a side effect. If you gave up smoking you wouldn’t be doing it to cure your cough… that’s just a side effect.

I’m terrified of gaining it back or of not losing more. The whole thing is very stressful for me and it’s taking up mental energy that I should be spending on enjoying the health benefits and appreciating them.

JGwen your messages have been so helpful. Understanding the science is a big part of being able to follow this WOE. If I don’t understand why I’m doing it I just can’t stick to it. But no matter how many times I read about it I always seem to forget the science behind it.

Hi Bee girl,
I am still very much a novice bee keeper, so have been following the story of your swarm with interest. – I bought my first 2 Nucs of near native bees last week, and they are now installed in my hives. – I have discovered that I am not a natural fire starter. – I couldn’t keep my smoker going, but in general they seemed kind to me when I moved them. I wondered if what the people at the allotment saw was a passing swarm from somewhere else and jumped to the assumption that it was one of your hives swarming?

Hi 6Turkeys, If carbs low enough to be in fat burning mode, and protein low enough to not cause an insulin spike. Then the simple calculation is the calories burnt – calories eaten = calorie value of body fat burnt. So if you burn 2000 calories in a day, and eat 800 calories your body will draw 1200 calories from your fat stores. = If you burn 2000 calories and eat 1800 calories, then its only 200 calories from your fat store. A lb of fat = 3500 calories. Eat more calories than you burn and its still added as fat.

That’s great, thanks JGwen. I just looked up my current TDEE (on first site listed on google) – their “lower carb” recommendations for discard were odd though – 101g protein and 50g carbs. Anyway, will keep an eye on cheese and get my measuring spoons out for olive oil. I looked at Wikipedia page on bee swarms; it is fascinating – planned in advance and then scout bees go out to look for new locations; come back and do waggle dance and apparently the final choice is a very democratic decision by the hive!

H1 6T, there are no “stup1d” quest1ons here 🙂 We are all learn1ng together. 1’m confused as to why you are us1ng TDEE
(total da1ly energy expend1ture) numbers though, wh1le you are st1ll do1ng the fast 800? We look at those when
we get 1nto ma1ntenance, as a gu1de to what number of calor1es we need to stay below. Calor1es 1n and calor1es
out 1s far from an exact sc1ence, and 1t’s much more 1mportant to recogn1ze the type of calor1es that we are consum1ng.
Have you had an opportn1ty to read Gary Tabes book, “Why We Get Fat..and What To Do About 1t”? He takes on the top1c
of 1nsul1n res1stence, and after read1ng 1t, the clouds parted for me, and the sun came out. Be1ng 1n calor1e def1c1t 1s
only one part of the story. Gett1ng my macros correct w1th1n the 800 cal. model 1s what made my journey rather pa1nless.
A few plateaus and some tweak1ng along the way were necessary, of course 🙂

Hi BSD Folk
I thought I would check back in to report progress. I started in March 2015 to give it a two week try as suggested by MM on a radio interview. 4 years and two months on, that’s a lot of WEEKS, here I am still within a few kg of the lowest. I lost 19.5 kgs total, that took 5 months. It has of course changed my life. I am now 66 years old, had started out as a fat kid so knew every available diet over the decades with yo-yo results. I had sworn off any further diets for years until I heard MM that day.

I post this as encouragement to those who may be having the odd wobbly day. Hang in there, trust yourself, it can and does work. In those early days the Forum was my daily fix for motivation and positive vibes.

Hi All
JGwen, thank you very much for your detailed information on how this all works, and your suggestions re: a cheap breathalyser. I have now ordered one and am excitedly awaiting its arrival. (Which is really sad if I think about it, lol)

You are right that I had been doing low carb for a couple of weeks before I joined the forum, and hence my satisfying “whoosh” when I first dumped carbs and water weight is in the rearview mirror. I tend not to “count” that loss because it doesn’t feel real: I know it’s just water not actually fat and would come back – however briefly – with a single carb binge.

I do understand your point about the scales not being that reliable, I didn’t know that daily fluctuation could be as big as 3kg though, that’s amazing. I don’t think I can wean myself off standing on them daily, but I will try to temper my disappointment at the lack of change in the numbers by the fact that I see a *shadow* of my collarbones now, lol

I also didn’t know that fasting kicked in other hormones like growth hormone, assisting in bone and muscle strength. Does that mean that it is helpful in combating those bone density challenges that face post-menopausal women? (I like Verano’s term “golden girls” better than my “old chooks”, lol) It intuitively feels like it should be a good thing, but I have learned that intuition and diet don’t necessarily go well together!

Your comment about Dr Fung maybe working with some Biggest Loser contestants was fascinating, I’d love to see the outcomes of that. Bet he’ll have to be careful not to be sued though!!

Merry, thanks for your suggestion about a later breakfast to give me a longer “break” without food on a regular basis. I will incorporate that and see if it makes a difference for me. I think it would be especially good on weekends, when I do tend to eat more because I don’t have the discipline of being in the office.

BeeGirl, I hesitate to offer advice when I am so new to this myself, but I think Jason Fung recommends against bone broth concentrate. I think he was concerned it had additives in it that you wouldn’t put in home-made stuff, so it’s not as reliably “good”. And I’m not sure why you’re looking at longer fasts, but Dr Fung also says that bone broth will be enough to stop autophagy (because of the protein in it). So if you’re after autophagy, he says you really need to stick to water, black coffee, and green tea. I’m sure other people will provide better information though.

Filthy and freezing weather here in Canberra today, so enjoying all the stories of bees in the sunshine 😊
Cheers, Elky

Hi all – I’ve been reading along (JGwen – you are amazing, I’m saving all your posts, so informative. Thank you!) in between studying for my Spanish final which is happening tonight from 7-9 and I can’t wait for it to be over! Looking forward to getting some balance back – have a good week xx

Morning all.

LollyT – I agree about needing to think more about how we feel than the results on the scales. I think I’m struggling to cut the apron strings that have tied me to the scales for the last 30+ years. I’ll keep trying though!

6T – funny you should say about the bees being ‘democratic’; there’s a book called ‘Honey Bee Democracy’ I keep meaning to buy!

JGwen – I’m a novice with bees too really; and while I can light a smoker, getting it to stay lit for more than 5 mins is beyond me! I tend to prefer a water mister, hut one of my hives became very defensive this year and smoke was the only way I could get in it without multiple stings unfortunately. They’ve calmed down now so might go back to water until I master fire! The swarm might have been from elsewhere – that was my original thought, but from the descriptions I’ve had it does sound like it came from my apiary. Darned if I can work out which hive though! I’ve just given two more nucs to the local association esterday though, so I’m now back down to a more manageable 5 hives, so I’ll have more time to be thorough hopefully.

Elky – thanks for the advice re the broth; I need to investigate further by the sounds of it.

So, a week on Friday I’m going away for a few day. Staying with my folks and having my elder son’s birthday party then a two day bee course. I’m planning to fast for 24 hours from Thursday dinner until I get there Friday evening, and fast from the Tuesday dinner until I get home Wednesday evening. My Mum is very supportive and wants to know what to buy for me to eat etc, so hopefully the weekend won’t be too challenging (just need to avoid the huge amounts of booze we usually consume!). The challenge will be the two day course; not sure what the lunch will be but I’m guessing sandwiches and I think we’ll be having dinner out somewhere on the first night. I can miss breakfast both days but does anyone have any advice on the best way of handling it? Should I just eat whatever but try to keep cals down, picking keto stuffing if at all possible? I could skip the lunches but I’m not sure how I’ll feel if I don’t eat as all day in a beesuit if it’s hot can make me feel a bit grim anyway – hard to drink through a veil! All advice welcome as I want to plan as much as possible.

Hi Elky,
According to Megan Ramos’s posts on Dr Fungs site, yes, fasting help with the bone density challenges that face post-menopausal women. You may find this post from her on the IDM website helpful https://idmprogram.com/losing-weight-for-women-and-men-women-and-fasting-part-2/ The follow on post on body composition does inspire me, you can so clearly hear her frustration at how often she has had to deal with people who are loosing inches but are downhearted because they are judging their progress by the scales.
I am a guinea pig on a research project being run by the local university which is looking at what body changes occur when women in their 50’s do half an hour of high intensity weight training a week. They gave us a full MOT including body composition scan at the start and will do the same again in a couple of weeks when we reach the 12 weeks of exercising stage. I will share the results with the forum then. Then we will be split in 2 groups, one group will get a free pass for 3 months to work out in the university gym but without the weekly record taking on this round, the other will not. There will be another MOT. Then we change over. Because of my work commitments I have already asked if I can be in the group that has the free pass in the autumn not summer. But what I plan to do during the summer is the 3 x 36 (or 42) hour fast protocol of Dr Fung.