Sunshine, exactly that was my point. I have always been proud I keep the daily recommended intake. I had to learn to listen when the body was saying it’s thirsty rather than hungry and it is not a myth people are dehydrated easily because from quite early age our parents would tell us to ‘Just be patient until we get home then you can have something to drink.’ And we learnt to be patient to a point we suppressed the thirst and exchanged for a label ‘HUNGRY and when we got thirsty then we ate thinking we were hungry.
A few years ago on BBC radio2 which also endorses MM had a Dr who explained that. It was also said that increasing our intake just by one glass this or that ailment could be prevented, an additional would lower the chances by a serious %. It was stressed that we can learn again to listen and distinguish what signals are hunger and what thirst.

Over the past 10+ years I gradually learnt to understand what is my thirst, my hunger and when the ‘Pigging out’ sign was on (although I never learnt to conquer the latter).
Yesterday, after i posted my comment it was all on the back of the above.
However, the response within minutes was that you’ve reported on the irresponsible advice people are dishing out and the encouragement and competition to see who can drink more.
Even if it was not, Sunshine, aimed at me as you stating it gives the impression your righteous anger and subsequent comments made me feel this way.

You are very knowledgeable with the ‘old-timers’ as you put a label on it. You explained the mechanics, the ins and outs, the scientific articles in layman terms and I commend upu for that.
Keeping it to yourself and watching from the distance what people are talking about and not participating but willing to report them… this is not Sunshine I met weeks ago and told myself ‘watch this one, she knows her stuff’.

If you decide to leave these forums, fair enough, that would be your decision and I would respect that but not having you here sharing your journey your ups and down would cause significantly more damage to us all.

With love,
Skinny to be
xx

Hi KrysiaD,

I am glad to have helped. Out of interest how much l-Carnatine are you taking. I am only taking 1g a day. I did experiment with taking 1.5gs and 2gs a day and found I was unbearably hot, so went back to 0.5g in a morning and the same in the late afternoon.

There was a mention about statins in this podcast that I listened to today that you may find interesting.
https://www.kevinrose.com/single-post/valter-longo

Sunshine-girl you have really got yourself back on track recently but please don’t fall by the wayside now. You have come so far, done so well and are progressing towards your ultimate goal …. no insulin. Krysia did and so can you, just keep on keeping on……

Hi, Mrs T! Maintenance is a bit unnerving for us all….In a broader sense, it’s a process of trial and
error for us all. Many of us believe in the process of “reverse dieting”, which consists of increasing
BSD friendly calories to 850 the first week, 900 the second week, and so on until you approach
your TDEE. There are plenty of online calculators to determine this, and are based on age, ht, wt.,
gender and daily energy expenditure. My experience was that I continued to lose another 8lbs ’til
I reached 1500 calories a day. This surprised me, because I thought I had long since damaged my
metabolism by years of yo-yo dieting. I increased carbs above 20g/day very slowly, and eventually
learned what my personal threshold was. We call this the “sweetspot” around here! There are plenty
of maintainers here to share our stories. You WILL find your way 🙂

Allie

Hi all,
I’m 4 1/2 pounds away from my goal weight…am currently in the middle of week 5 of the fast 800 diet. Although I’m not at my target yet, I’m starting to think about life after the 800cal restriction and I’m actually terrified. Is that normal? I’m scared because it’s been hard work to get to this point, and I don’t want to go back to how I was. What strategies should I use to try and increase the amount I eat without putting the weight back on? What has everybody else done? Is there a certain way of gradually increasing calories? Any advice would be appreciated…I get pretty hungry in the evenings on 800 calories so I’m looking forward to shedding that last few pounds and then getting to a maintenance phase…

Thank you Verano, that was my concern really, This is the blood sugar diet and, although anyone is welcome to participate they should not be offering advice on subjects they know nothing about, like exercise when they dont even bother to read a personal profile or previous posts to see if their advise might not be appropriate. It has become a free for all and in particular on the fasting, which I just ignore and on the ‘lets get out carbs lower and lower’ which I again ignore.

Skinny – no one said you drank it daily but drinking that amount at all is extremely dangerous and the tone was like it was something to be proud of –
I quote: I’ve always been proud of my drink regime but today I had nine (9) pint glasses of water with a bit of lemon squeeze for ‘colour’ four (4) mugs of herbal tea and three coffees. In total EIGHT litre of liquids. When going to the loo the pee was as clear as water. Was well pleased with myself. All those years of ensuring my body had enough fluids paid of.
All in all it’s been a good day.
All the best, friends.
Skinny to be

That was my point. I will be still around but I really want the moderators to look into some of these issues and make it clear on the homepage that some of us are actually ILL and this is a site for people with Blood Sugar issues and not a place to bandy around myths and false information.
I will be watching Verano, keep yourself well. At least we are knowledgeable enough not to get drawn in – as are a lot of us old timers.

That’s marvelous, Marxistfood! I guess your doctor is being cautious but even so, I’d be interested to hear what others with T2 think. You know this WOE works that’s for sure! Many congratulations to you both!
Kazzee

I hope you didn’t get burned Skinny! My scalp is still painful from spending 6 hours hatless at a cricket match on Sunday. Lesson learned 😡
Maggie

Marxistfood that is a great result. I have reversed my diabetes so know where you are coming from and how wonderful it feels to just be in ‘control’. In defence of GPs I think your doctor is only being responsible. It’s only seven weeks and this is a lifetime way of eating and it could be only too easy to think ….. ok, I’ve beaten diabetes, am drug free, so the odd ‘treat’ won’t do any harm! Now I’m not saying that would happen but …. metformin only reduces blood sugar by around 10% so it’s not really a ‘wonder’ drug which is why, with time, most people are prescribed more and more medication just to stand still.

So again, congratulations, but maybe be a little patient and just humour the doctor for another few months. After all continuing with the diet and getting it a little more ingrained into everyday life won’t do any harm and nor will the metformin in the short term. Best of luck!

It wasn’t you Skinny — there has been a lot of recommendations to drink massive amounts of water — this has gone on for two years. It is a constant refrain.
You are obviously prudent in your water intake and I believe sunshinegirl tried to convey that in her post.

Thank you JGwen – I’ll have a search and listen again to it. I can never have too much repition and reinforcement, it’s the way stuff eventually finds its way into my brain 🙂
Maggie

Godo afternoon,
Can I also put my point across. I posted my liquid intake on yesterday. Nowhere have I said the 8L is my DAILY intake.
I believe Sunshine is referring to me and in any of my posts you cannot see me encouraging or preventing people from their liquid intakes. I do feel offended as the whole shebang triggered Sunshine into this unfortunate conversation upsetting people around. She hasn’t asked me whether it was my DAILY aim, goal or asked why I’d do so…
I am very pleased with myself that I am supplying my body with the recommended daily intake, and on occasion as it was yesterday, well, it doubled. I posted in the evening that this intake was done between 5.30AM and 9.00PM – almost 16 HOURS stretch, therefore on average I was drinking a reasonable amount of liquids and while sitting outside in the courtyard while having lunch in the middle of the day when the sun was quite strong I did my best to keep me hydrated.

Hi MaggieBath,
If you want to trace it back to the first source the link I posted to a Dr Bikman podcast was about 2 to 3 months ago on the take a look at this thread. – I was worried about people taking supplements without understanding / researching the reason and if they needed them. – so I wouldn’t give people the name of the supplement but recommended people watch the pod cast for themselves.

Hi sunshine-girl I know exactly where you are coming from and I share your concerns. One of my pet hates is the ‘fasting’ question. People often only hear what they want to hear and quite often miss points like ….. fasting over a certain length of time should only be done under medical supervision, which Jason Fung for one, stresses over and over again.

I think there are possibly two issues here. Firstly, we have been participating on these boards for a long time so have probably seen more misleading information than many of the newer people here. Secondly, this is a ‘blood sugar diet’ which was devised primarily for those of us looking to improve our diabetic status. Over time many people wishing to lose weight and improve their health, but without further medical complications, have started to eat this way too. I am in no way saying this is wrong, everyone should try to be as healthy as they can. However, I feel as you do, that some of the advice given is not medically sound and could possibly cause harm.

I’m pleased that you have contacted the moderators and in fact I think they should take more responsibility for the safe running of this site. It almost as though they have unleashed a ‘monster’. Other ‘diets’ aimed purely at weight loss and not a health issue such as diabetes, are less likely to end up with serious repercussions. Although any diet can be dangerous if abused.

Finally s-g if you really feel you can no longer contribute here I would ask you to just keep an eye on what goes on because at least you can intervene when you see something dangerous, especially in the absence of good moderation here.

I think the water issue is important enough to struggle through a discussion of it, even though it might be difficult.
Obviously there can be different points of view on this, as everyone is unique, but sunshinegirl is correct in warning people not to drink TOO much water because it IS bad for you.
Mosely recommends 2-3 liters per day from ALL sources — I think that is safe. Drinking 4-8 liters just might be too much, unless you are exercising hard in the heat for many hours.
Drink to thirst. You have a finely tuned system to tell you when you are in need of fluids.

I really wish you wouldn’t, Sunshine-girl. Those of us that have been here for a long time really value
your advice to newly diagnosed diabetics. Please do what is best for you, however. 🙂 Hope to see
you out and about on other threads. When the moderators do weigh in, I believe they do so in a post
that has green shading? Will have to wait and see…Best,

Allie

I think I am going to leave this site as I am more and more worried about some of the advice given without any medical knowledge. I was going to leave it some time ago but I saw someone advise a diabetic that it was okay to do strenuous exercise on an empty stomach and if they felt ill just to exercise through it and their fat cells would give them the energy they needed. When I intervened they said ‘ oh I didn’t know it was different for diabetics, I didn’t know they were diabetic’. Now that really worried me as we could have had someone in a hypoglycaemic coma on that advice. Just to finish the water thing. Page 135 of The 8 Week Blood Sugar Diet says we should drink between 2 and 3 litres of non calorie liquids, water, tea or coffee without milk – not 3 to 5 OR as one person said they drink 8 litres a day. Sorry, this site is going beyond what is safe and I cannot continue on it without stirring up a hornets nest every time I see something that is wrong or dangerous. The moderators are going to look into this and until I hear from them I will not participate in this free for all.

Hi payroll queen that’s interesting you seem to have had the opposite effect to me! I’m feeling a bit better today so just keeping an eye on things for now.

MarxistFood that sounds like an amazing result and the pharmacist certainly thought so. I’m not diabetic so have no experience of the medication but it sounds like your GP is in denial or trying to save face.
Someone with an informed opinion will doubtless be along soon, but the consultation was with a diabetes specialist- most doctors aren’t- so two views, and I know which one I’d go with.
Congratulations to you both.
Maggie

ok off I go with hubbie to the surgery to see th Pharmacist clinical consultation (sponsoree by a drug company) Well some twists and turns ! He very affable and open and accepting that low carbs diet for diabetics are good – although not really heard of the Dr Michael Mosley programme. congratulated on weight loss exercise etc, told him that had stopped glimaz. and had reduced metformin (gradually by half) leaving one in the morning one in the evening. He thought shouldn’t have done that until a blood test was back to within normal parameters He had taken a blood test as we arrived and had to wait 10 mins for the results but he said 45 was what my husband should be working towards before stopping medication AND THE RESULT WAS 42 yes Bloo#y 42. The phamarcist was beaming and said I think you can stop taking your meds many congratulations ! so 7 weeks ago my husband reading was a terrifying 92 today despite it being called a fad diet by one of the gp’s he has had this amazing result………………….wait for it……..2hrs later call from Pharmacist saying Doctor thinks should continue taking I metf. morning and evening for next 2-3 months until they can do another blood test to ensure that “it hasn’t reverted” please please folks offer any advice/info feels like the Doctors won’t accept what is in front of them YES realise still have to continue with home monitor and3/6 monthly checks and of course a good diet.but if he continues with the drugs for the next 2/3 months and his level is good all that seems to prove is that his levels are still assisted by drugs. We running scared AGAIN but remain overjoyed Help again please thanks

What I really like about the idm site is that not only is it reinforcing of what we already know, but it
presents the information in a non technical way that is easy for anyone to understand. Thanks,
Maggie! I always try to find the time to follow your links!

Marie – I agree, I should have included the “sod the poetry” as it made me chuckle! Glad you managed to get a last minute holiday!
Mrs T, there is a maintainers thread and I think I read somewhere to increase your daily amount by 50 cals, for a week and see what the scales register. Keep doing that until you start to gain, then you’ll know where your limit is.
I love the knowledge on these boards!
Kazzee

Hi all,
Yummymummy2be, when I started this WOE 10 weeks ago I was on antidepressants for anxiety. I found quite quickly that reducing the carbs made my meds too strong so cut down from one each day to one every other day. Then asking my doctor for a new lower prescription before stopping the meds altogether. You might find you need to adjust your meds as well. I should say my doctor did recommend that I could reduce my dose safely if I ever felt I could cope without them.

😊

Krysia I think we just get a bit complacent and because we aren’t eating the ‘bad’ carby foods we think all is well. In fact we both know it’s too much of the good stuff that can start to cause problems too. I know how well you have done to get back on track and I’m hoping to follow in your footsteps…. just one day at a time and back to two meals a day instead of the three that have crept back in over the last few weeks.

An interesting post from Jason Fung on intermittent fasting and time restricted eating with links to a Harvard post which in turn has a bunch of other quality links on the subject. The conclusion I am drawing, amongst others, is that snacking really is the killer and it’s something to be conscious of when we head into maintenance.
https://idmprogram.com/what-fasting-is-not-crazy-batsh-stupid/

Krysia, apologies I just couldn’t remember where the l-carnitine information came from. Honestly, the Take a Look at This thread is a treasure trove of links!
Maggie

Skinny to be,that’s amazing,to lose over 2 pounds in 2 days,that’s never ever happened to me before,well done,you’ll reach 150 pounds in no time!
Re the raspberries,there’s 2 yellow or golden varieties that I know of called All Gold and Fall Gold,there may be more,they are a yellow/golden colour and are sweeter than the red ones,don’t have that tang about them that raspberries often have.Mine are supposedly autumn cropping which means around August but like I said before they crop from the end of June.They freeze well and I made some lovely jam from them over the winter.I know of 2 places where yellow raspberries are growing in the wild as well.There are so many fruit variations,you can get black raspberries and white blackberries and I have a cross between a gooseberry and blackcurrant.

Violinist you must be shattered,hope you get a good sleep tonight.
Hope everyone has a great day.

Verano – that is exactly how I was in April. My body loved the healthy fats and low carbs but it was saying ‘ this is just way too much food – even though it is healthy it is WAY WAY too much food’. The difference in how I feel now is amazing. My body feels so happy between 1300 and 1500 calories – weight gently dropping and energy levels high.

Wow so much knowledge on this forum! I’m learning huge amounts here! Catherine and Marie the amount of weight loss you’ve had is inspiring, well done for all your achievements so far! I’m just over halfway with the 8 weeks, and weighed myself this morning. I’m 4 1/2 pounds from my goal weight! My big concern and I guess my fear is how to transition to larger, more normal size meals without putting the weight on. I’ve worked hard to get to this point and the thought of going backwards scares me. At the same time, by the evening I am hungry living on 700-800cals so I will need to increase the calories to be able to live! Does anyone have any advice about how to transition to a maintenance diet?
I better lose these 4 1/2 pounds first though…don’t want to get carried away thinking about the next stage…but any advice would be gratefully received xx

Florida Violinist, if only it was 3lb, it’s 2.2lb 🙂

Have a safe flight 🙂
xx

apropos of nothing at all – been catching up with last month’s challenge posts this morning. Great new challenge title from blackspot but wish we’d included the rest of it ‘Zoomers! To August & beyond! – sod the poetry’

Marie xx

Thanks, Californiagirl, that’s sounds like something my brain can work with! 🙂

Thanks Catherine – Funnily enough I always do well on holiday. We’ve always catered for ourselves on holiday so foods not a problem, I’m usually more active sightseeing, walking etc and I’ve never really drunk much alcohol so I often come back the same or with a small loss – but 4lbs is not too bad. A great time was had by all so I’m happy with that.

I started BSD early August 2017 so I’ve been doing it for coming up to one year. I did continuous 8 week cycles from August to April this year when I reached my 9st goal weight. My total weight loss was 74lbs (this includes 16lbs I’d lost dieting before I switched to BSD). I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes last August and that’s really what helped keep me focused. I’m so glad I did it; my blood sugars are back in the normal range, my BP is now consistently in the normal range (it was veering between high and pre-high), my BMI has gone from 36.5 to 23. Like Zinny, Amarela and others have said I have so much more energy, I can move more freely, up and down stairs without my knees hurting, up slopes without struggling to breathe – it’s such a relief and release!

As far as maintenance, it’s early days for me – I’ve only been maintaining since April. But you absolutely can maintain this woe because others on the forum have done it/are doing it. If they can do it so can we – definitely.

Personally, even though I was a chocoholic, crispoholic, etc, I don’t find eating low carbs etc a problem now (and don’t forget you’ll be eating more cals in maintenance). What I’m finding challenging is doing other things differently – e.g. learning to cook more from fresh and with a wider variety of food, just being more active on a day to day basis – not things I did before so personal challenges to me.

I can never remember who (apologies, I really must look it up) but someone says you learn how to do this woe as you go; I think that’s true of maintenance, too. I’m a bit of a perfectionist so that helps me not beat myself up too much when things go awry.

34lb is a great weight loss result! Keep going, Catherine – you really are doing brilliantly xx
Marie

Thanks for that link Maggie-bath,
I have been a vegetarian all my life, and have had doctors scratching their heads for most of my adult life because I had the cold body temps and all the other symptoms of an under active thyroid but blood tests for thyroid levels put me just in the above the bottom value for the NHS accepted normal range. I think my body is right now just going through a period of catching up.
Its interesting that the research you quoted says “Cholesterol levels fell significantly among the individuals taking the supplement, they report. ” That may be relevant for others on the forum.

How quickly can I expect blood sugar to respond to BSD. Been on diet for 15 days and have now lost 6.4kg (1 stone) so should blood sugar respond now?

Good morning and I realise I can make today my first day of this week’s challenge rather than wait until tomorrow to begin. So here goes!

I really think moderation in all aspects of life is the best way to keep healthy. More of something that is ‘good for you’ doesn’t necessarily translate into extra benefits for the body. We each have to listen to our own bodies and I’m listening to mine right at this moment and it’s saying ‘PLEASE, don’t keep giving me more and more ‘good fats and low carbs’, enough is enough!’ So back on track today. Have a good one.

JGwen – not sure if you read my post in The Take a Look at This thread thanking you for introducing me to L- Carnatine. Even though I had recovered from the severe muscle damage caused by statins 6 years ago I was left with muscle weakness that has never gone away. I started taking the l-Carnatine 48 days ago. Not sure quite when I began to notice my glutes and leg muscles getting stronger but they were day by day noticeably getting stronger.

I thought that this was very strange so googled l-Carnatine and statin damage and came across this very interesting article https://spacedoc.com/articles/dr-sinatra-coq10-and-carnitine. I have been taking CoQ10 and magnesium because they did help with the initial myalgia. Dr Sinatra says that in some patients this does not fully resolve the issue with statins, until he added L-carnitine to the program. The carnitine enabled the muscles to rebound. This feels exactly what is happening.

So I am so grateful that you posted the info. On Sunday we were walking up a very steep hill that I usually struggle to get up but on Sunday my legs and bum muscles just powered me up effortlessly. So weird though that the muscles are improving so fast.

The research he quotes isn’t that new – but it is really interesting and it seems to be helpful in preventing muscle loss as we age and for vegetarians.

Good 2:26 am in Florida ladies! I am up and see skinny lost 3 pounds! Good job!

I am not a gardener, but love to hear about it.

Have a great day!

Started at 177lb.
I like it – 174.8lb 🤪. Sheer delight xx

Wendy,
Your dinner sounds so delicious. I haven’t been to Bella Italia, well, maybe 6-7 years now. Good to know how very BSD friendly they are. I hope there is a new day for you without much struggle today as you did wonderfully yesterday but that’s enough for one day. A more easy day for you today.
About my bottom garden, there isn’t THAT much space where I could put all the bushes you’ve mentioned although now you said it I wish there was THAT amount of space. The idea of raspberries though is very tempting. What is golden raspberries. Are they GOLDEN just in name or colour too and what do they taste to compare with the standard raspberries. My little girl loves going to the local PYO farm and raspberries are her favourite fruit (she switched from LEMONS 🍋🍋🍋 after about 2 years) so here’s a food for thought. I also got a rose bush , the one on a long stem with a big head and abundance of little flowers that is still in the pot as havent made the decision where it’ll go and I’m also longing for an olive tree, the decorative one as the the standard one if potted in the middle of the lawn would take up all the space after 100 years of growing. Not that it would be my problem then- looooool. Olive tree is my favourite of all trees.

Well, I hope, when I eventually come out of bed (I’ve been waking up after 5am lately and I only went to bed just before midnight) and hop on the scales I’ll see a nice drop.

All my love and best wishes for today, my friends.
Skinny to be
xx

Hello, friends. I’ve been away from these forums today, so only getting back here now. I’m feeling
a bit uncomfortable at the tone this thread has taken, and that it has been continued over to the
new week. No one here is a medical doctor, or even a certified nutritionalist, so what we really
have to share in the way of support is our own individual experiences. I enjoy reading all points
of view, and often benefit the most from those that diverge from my own. Some of us use Mosley’s
books as the gospel, and others find them a good starting point and extend our knowledge of
health and nutrition far beyond. We all have the option to accept or reject what resonates with
us or doesn’t. I’m certain that whatever is said here is only done with the very best of intentions…
and I’ll continue to believe that. Can we leave WATER behind?
I’m focused on day 2 and hope you all are too!

Allie

Well I think Bella Italia is quite good for this WoE,plenty of choice.I had mushrooms in a cheesy sauce,then spiralized veg with a lentil and mushroom sauce,then a small pudding so not too much damage done.I actually feel quite hungry now,it’s after 1am,we’ve been sitting up talking.Son and daughter in law brought 2 boxes of Thorntons,managed to give some to our carers but lots left.Ours is a busy house and there’s always lots of visitors so guess who’ll get the chocolates.
There was no miso soup in Asda,will look in Tesco next time I’m there.
Skinny,your garden sounds lovely,well organised.Maybe in the area of the garden you’re not too sure about you could have veg or fruit bushes.Blackcurrants and redcurrant can be grown against a fence,so can raspberries.We planted golden raspberries against the back of our shed 3 years ago and the amount of berries we get are amazing,last year they cropped from June until November.You can’t do everything and an allotment is a lot of work.All the travelling you did sounds great,what an experience.Every night our dog tells us when the hedgehog comes to our garden,I think it’s a female so hopefully there’ll be a baby at some point.
Mixnmatch,have a lovely holiday when the time comes.
Hope everyone can stay on track tomorrow.

My doctor says, drink to your thirst level. Don’t obsess and your body is finely tuned to know when it needs water — thirst is your guide.

What exactly is his recommendation?

Mixnmatch, welcome and you may be surprised the land of delish food may actually work for you too.
We’ve got still until Friday so let’s see how well can we do between now and Friday so you’re equipped the number on the day before you go.
All the best
Skinny to be xx

Californiagirl, that isn’t what Michael Mosely says in the book. People are entitled to their own points of view, but this is the BSD forum and Michael Mosely has been quite clear.
Maggie

Lol, I misread that Mixnmatch. I thought you were going to the land of pain! Poor you, what’s it all about? But no, vin and boursin!!
Have a lovely holiday 😎
Maggie

I agree with sunshinegirl. The drinking of more and more water is dangerous and hard on your kidneys. The Boy Scouts use the rule that if you pee six times per day, WHILE HIKING, that’s plenty.
We aren’t usually hiking so we don’t need to take in that much fluid.
All fluids are countable — and SG is right — 2.2 liters of ALL fluids is probably enough unless you are heavily sweating.

Weigh in today at 172 pounds, but may not shift any for a while as heading to the land of pain, vin & Boursin on Friday. Won’t be able to report next week but will come and admit any holiday transgressions and give a revised ‘starting’ weight the following Tuesday. Onwards and downwards everyone.

As I said, Skinny, it is not you. It is a trend and it was just that your post prompted me.