Thank you, sunshine-girl. I used to believe that too, until I referred to my notebook, and the figures that I have recorded
for fiber are 1.4g and 1.5g, respectively. We enjoy cucumber and dill soup in the summer, and my husband can
easily polish off 3/4-1 med. cuke for lunch. (To each their own). I usually hedge my bets, and peel 1/2 and leave the
other 1/2 skin- on, but only if I have a locally sourced cuke that is organic, not one of those horrible waxed ones from
the grocery store. Yeck! We make a lot of gazpacho too, and the carbs from a skin- on cuke and tomato, added together,
can add up if you are one that needs to keep carbs under 20. At least I have created a recipe that is bread free, and
that is a good thing. Will be offering it soon on one of the recipe threads. Ah, then of course there is the carby red
onion…..Still believe the info is worthwhile posting 🙂 Perhaps others will find it interesting or informative, too!

Best day, everyone 🙂

I just came across this article which may be helpful to anyone suffering from fatty liver, or wanting to get their liver in the best state to support weight loss.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601486/

So the next time someone is stressing about having a social meal, maybe the solution is to advise them take a couple of teaspoons of vinegar before the meal. 🙂
https://idmprogram.com/the-benefits-of-vinegar-hormonal-obesity-xxviii/

Thanks JGwen. The report on choline is really disturbing, that poor dietary advice given by the NHS should be causing life threatening illness.
The vinegar is really interesting; those Europeans know what they’re doing, eating bread with olives and an olive oil and balsamic vinegar dip! That will certainly be on my list for treat days.

Hi all, just take care with vinegars like balsamic – it is 88 calories and 17g carbs for every 100ml. Naturally you wont be having 100ml but it is worth knowing and, yes, great for treat days. The cider vinegar has 22 calories and 0.2g carbs.

I know balsamic is wicked but it is soooooo delicious 😉 But yes, sunshine-girl, as well to draw other people’s attention to the massive carb load.

Thank you for the article on choline JGwen! It continues to support what Dr. Bikman and all the other research is recommending — eat high quality protein every day (preferably from grass-fed meats and wild fish) and eat an egg (or two) every day.
Eggs are full of choline (the yolk) and they just might be nature’s perfect food (that’s Dr. Perlmutter’s opinion, not mine).

Thanks JGwen, very interesting articles. I was taking apple cider vinegar every day but have fallen out of the habit. Better get started again!

Wow, it’s complicated! Glucose is only responsible for 23% of insulin response, the rest is unknown. It seems it’s down to food combining which you highlighted recently JGwen. Milk is a real issue, the whey content stimulates insulin (Look at the UK study on 8 year old boys, it’s frightening) so all whole milks are keeping insulin levels topped up.
It seems nutrition labels are only, at best, a small part of the story, at worst misleading.
https://idmprogram.com/insulin-index/

Fascinating and complex, Maggie. I love the idm site, and will be perusing it often! I’m shocked by the research on
fish, since it’s a mainstay in our diet at 4 x week. You and JGwen have gotten this thread to “sing”, and it is much
appreciated. 🙂

Wishing everyone a wonderful weekend!

Oh, with respect to whey…Greek yogurt is suppose to have it removed, or most of it, put I’m not certain about
that, because there is still some liquid that rises to the top? Any ideas?

Allie

I’ve been making my own Greek type yogurt and there’s certainly plenty of whey that sits on top, which I’ve poured off. In fact there are environmental concerns about the production of Greek yogurt because of the disposal of acid whey that is contaminating land it’s sprayed on.
I’ve actually stopped making it because I started to get a bad feeling about it!
There’s an awful lot to take in!
Maggie

There certainly is. Just when I think I’ve “got it”, a new variable enters the mix! It’s only a matter of time until one of
you brilliant ladies ferret out some info on food combining, as well 🙂 JGwen? My eyes are on you! Maggie, it may
have been prior to your joining the community (and we’re all happy that you did!) but JGwen explained to us all that
“why” is her favorite word. She usually finds the answers for us all, when I’m not even sure that I know the questions,
yet 🙂 🙂 🙂

It’s an excellent word – not one your doctor wants to hear! My phrase is How do we know?
Before my brain started functioning again after ditching the carbs I’d forgotten to use it. Let us keep on tweaking tails for many years to come 😊

The first of these links is to an interview with Dr Bikman regarding insulin resistance. – I think this is a really good video for newcomers with T2, because it so clearly explains why it is not blood sugar but insulin levels that we need to control.

But he does make the point in this video that the research suggests that the impact of protein on insulin levels is x20 when combined with carbs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVwrlqcyUY&feature=youtu.be

I haven’t quite got my head around the formulas in this link, but it is one I want to come back to. It the explanation on the formulas to work out the impact on insulin of all the main protein sources.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/07/06/insulin-index-v2/
However it doesn’t cover the main protein sources for veggies and vegans, which is a bit of a disappointment.

However, digging a little further on the same site I came across this page for people who are veggie and vegan
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2016/08/22/nutrient-dense-diabetic-friendly-vegan-foods/

Excellent stuff JGwen. Thank you.
I find him so brilliant, he obviously has an amazing mind.
In a FB Group for people following Jason Fung there was a post yesterday by a girl who had coaching from one of the IDM team for a year and she reported that she had been advised one meal a day was really bad news. Unless it’s used carefully and kept mixed up with other eating patterns the body can all too easily treat it as calorie restriction and downgrade the BMR accordingly.
Off topic, I’ve walked to the supermarket and realised I’d picked up a bottle of Pimm’s! Then I came to my senses and put it back and added some Pellegrino instead which is delicious with mint and cucumber.
Something else I bought was a small pot of Cornish sea salt and seaweed mix which is beyond delicious. This way of eating certainly opens the door to a new world of tastes.
Maggie

Hi Verano, great suggestion to do a reference page.
I recommend Dr. Jason Fung’s books, about reversing type 2 diabetes through intermittent fasting and losing weight using intermittent fasting. He’s also on Utube. He has done a lot of clinical studies on his patients in Canada for a few years now.

Just seen this article which is written in an amusing way but it is supporting the LCHF way of life as a cure for diabetes (who knew!!!) and the ketogenic diet as helping cancer sufferers.

http://www.healthinsightuk.org/2018/01/22/low-fat-blinkers-keep-low-carbs-in-the-cold-time-for-a-coalition/

hope the link works as I am not very tech savvy

Thanks sunshine-girl, that looks really interesting. The Food Programme this morning (BBC R4) were speaking to Aseem Malhotra and Dr David Unwin, plus people who had experienced the life changing effects of the low carb way of eating, and an NHS spokesman just dismissed it. So blinkered and depressing.

Hi MaggieBath,
I didn’t see that specific post on the Fung FB page. – Did the poster give any reason why One Meal a Day (OMAD) could cause a reduction in metabolic rate? – (Other than the obvious one of eating high carb diet. So the body can’t access the fat. )
I have seen the research which has come out of the program Biggest Loser quoted often to prove that low cal diets result in a reduction of metabolic rate, but all the different experts on Insulin seem to have different opinions at present on the best patterns on IF and time restricted eating.
I find the Fung FB page a little worrying, all the competitive fasting and advice to people who are struggling with short fasts that they should push through into 5+ day long fasts rather than listen to their bodies.
I am also on the Dr Bikman FB group, he answered a question yesterday saying that he thought OMAD was better than longer fasts because the stress of a longer fast would raise cortisol levels. One of effects of which is raising blood sugar levels and insulin.
While the research which is frequently quoted by an expert who disagrees with Dr Fung indicates that after a couple of days there is dramatic reduction in metabolic rate. – But then what what body type (ie how much fat was available for fuel) were the people was this research carried out on?
Its all a bit of a pickle without research to give a definitive answer.

Thanks JGwen for Dr Bikman clip. Have made a note of the 3 steps and stuck to my fridge!

Aseem Malhotra on FB https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2421215411229674&id=100000237161573 about a launch tomorrow and watch The Big Fat Fix here https://tameside-pioppi-video-2.kickoffpages.com and this https://tamesidereporter.com/2018/06/nhs-sugar-free-for-70/

Hi JGwen, the post was by Lakshmi who deleted it because someone threw a hissy fit. You’re right, there is a lot of competitive fasting and you can bet your life half of them are just fantasists, which is tough where there are desperate people looking for an answer.
She was told by her coach that OMAD would be viewed by the body as calorie restrictive unless it was continuously mixed up with other eating patterns, never consecutive days.
I must have look at Dr Bikman’s page, it’s not coming up in my feed.
Maggie

Follow this link to the Big Fat Fix and I won’t get a prize but kudos https://tameside-pioppi-video-2.kickoffpages.com?kid=Q1N4Y

A podcast on fruit / fructose. Explains where the idea that we need 5 portions of fruit and veg a day.

Apparently the research on the impact of fructose was only published in 2010, so most of the text books are out of date.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6LL92Zs5L0

Thanks JGwen – it’s my guilty secret that I don’t really like fruit though I always bought lots and insisted the children ate it. I feel vindicated! OTOH, I poisoned my children 😱
Maggie

If you have a couple of hours per week to spare over the next 3 weeks you could log on with FutureLearn.com as there is a course running called Food As Medicine. It is a simple course with no homework, just watching a few videos, reading a few pages, joining in on the commentary pages and learning lots about food. I guess the reason I am enjoying this so much is their thinking is very much in line with how we eat – we have to excuse ‘normal’ people eating some carbs – and it is run the Monash University in Australia where their ‘NHS’ equivalent healthy eating guidelines have been updated to what ours are discussing right now. Did I also say, it is free, no obligation, they just give you a task like watching a video, you tick the box to say you have completed that, then they give you the next section.

When I opened my computer this morning there was a headline saying ‘5 great reasons to never eat white bread again’. Cant share the link so here goes.
1. It has zero nutritional value.
2. It can cause erratic blood sugar levels.
3. It can increase your risk of T2 diabetes.
4. It is a contributing factor to weight gain. AND
5. It can negatively affect your mood.
Obviously eat item was explained – try Mr Google if you want to find the link.

I’d like to agree with sunshine-girl and the recommendation about FutureLearn courses. A few months ago I followed their excellent The Science of Nutrition course – very well-structured and quite easy to understand. I learnt a lot from it.
They’re running it again starting some time in July – 23rd I think – and I’m going to follow it again … using my wife’s email address! It’s completely free.

Link to a very good a article on why saturated fat cannot raise cholesterol levels.

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2018/07/03/why-saturated-fat-cannot-raise-cholesterol-levels-ldl-levels/

Flashf, if you want to do a course for the second time you dont have to disguise yourself. I am doing 2 at the moment, one I have done before o questions asked.

Oh thanks sunshine -girl. That’s good to know. I found the Science of Nutrition course fascinating, but I didn’t make enough notes on some of the things I wanted to remember, and as you know you lose access to the course material after about for weeks unless you upgrade.

Thank you Krysia. I like Malcolm Kendrick, I’ve seen him on a couple of YouTube videos arguing desperately for a change in the status quo. Apologies to those I’ve missed out, but Malcolm, Aseem Malhotra, Robert Lustig, John Bergman, David Diamond and David Perlmutter all come across as similarly angry and frustrated that they have the keys to the kingdom of good health and they can’t get the people who matter to listen despite irrefutable evidence.
It’s obviously up to us to show by example that they are right and we are what we eat.
Maggie

Hi Maggie and our USA based members, I watched a podcast of a lecture by Dr. Gary Fettke a couple of days ago and ended up heading off down a rabbit hole researching why he was making all the jokes about not being allowed to say ……. – Wow, I hadn’t realised just how strongly the food industry is trying to block news of the benefits of low carb in the the USA.

What am I going to do with you, JGwen? I’m not getting ANYTHING done, because I’m following your posts here,
and looking up your path of inquiry! The “Food Pyramid” in this country is a particular disgrace, so I’d like to
locate the Fettke interview. Is it from Biohackers Lab? I never would have believed that having O/H at home
for the summer would cut into my time so dramatically 🙂 Will get to my email TODAY, I promise!
Hi, everyone!

Alliecat, the course I am following at the moment is Monash Uni in Aus. Their food pyramid is different to ours. We have the 5/6 carbs on the biggest portion at the bottom with fruit and veg next, the Aussies have fruit and veg first then meat fish and other proteins and then the carbs way up in the middle. Not totally ideal but an improvement.

By the way enjoy your 4th July celebrations.

Sorry, got it wrong, he was censored in Australia for recommending a low carb diet.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/dr-fettke-censored-recommending-low-carb

He was giving presentations at lowcarbdownunder conference which are on the youtube.

Is fruit bad for you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6LL92Zs5L0

Nutrition and inflammation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQmfRMwHfA

Both bookmarked, JGwen. Thank you! I listened to the first 1/2 hr of one called “real food diet: benefits of
LCHF lifestyle” He takes a little umbrage with the description of High Fat, and thinks it should actually be
called Healthy Fat instead, which I’m 100% down with. I’m adding this to “future topics” for next skype
session!

I should say, that in one of the podcasts he does show a fairly graphic photo of the type of wounds he has to treat when operating on people with diabetes. Just in case anyone is squeamish.

———–

I have a question for anyone who is into researching. On the FB page for Dr Fund there is mention that he thinks eating OMAD, or staying LC and low calories for some time will result in reductions in BMR. Its only by slightly longer water only fasts that you protect your metabolic rate. – But I would have interpreted his talks as BMR will only drop if you have raised insulin. – which means if you are in Keto, then OMAD will not change your BMR. I know the research into dieting causing a reduction in BMR comes from studying the greatest loser contestants. Has anyone seen any published research into keto and dieting and impact on BMR? – Not something I would ever have thought about asking about 6 months ago.

I’ll do a bit of searching later.
Gary Fettke’s wife Miranda has had to take over his FB page on Fructose. What he says about fruit makes sense, how it causes scheduled obesity to carry animals through the winter.
Maggie

JGwen – I would really like to thank you for posting on this thread about l-carnatine. I was very interested and bought acetyl-l-carnatine (have used it for 45 days).
What seems to have happened is that – following a reaction to statins that caused myalgia I was left with muscle weakness – especially in my legs. My consultant said that it would take at least 3 years to resolve and it is now 6 years later. I am very active and teach Pilates 6 days a week – but there is still that weakness there. Or rather there was. The muscle strength has miraculously come back in my legs and glutes.

So I googled l-carnatine and statin damage and the following article came up from the Space Doc site.
https://spacedoc.com/articles/dr-sinatra-coq10-and-carnitine
Dr. Stephen Sinatra – Statins, CoQ10, and Carnitine – Statins, CoQ10, and Carnitine – What Doctors Don’t Tell Patients
I have been taking CoQ10 and magnesium because they did help with the initial myalgia. Dr Sinatra says that in some patients this does not fully resolve the issue with statins, until he added L-carnitine to the program. The carnitine enabled the muscles to rebound. This feels exactly what is happening.

The research he quotes isn’t that new – but it is really interesting and it seems to be helpful in preventing muscle loss as we age.

It does have it’s downside though. I am finding that I can really power walk. I was marvelling how strong my legs felt and how fast I could walk when I felt a searing pain in my calf that stopped me in my tracks. Apparently a little terrier i was passing did not like people walking fast and he had sunk his teeth into my calf! Luckily I had my thick walking trousers on and he hadn’t taken a chunk out of my calf – it just felt like it. Will be more careful when I walk past that little dog next time.

I never would have thought of adding l-carnatine as a supplement until you posted about it – I am so pleased you did.

Thanks Krysia and JGwen, very interesting. My GP told me that he had patients who completely lost the use of their legs after a week on statins. I’m so glad you’re recovering Krysia but shocking to find yourself in such a position.
Maggie

JGwen, I dont know about this type of diet reducing BMR but from a personal observation, I generally eat the 800cal day if I come off plan and eat say, 1500 I will gain weight. Pre diet I would probably have eaten 1500 to 2000 a day and maintained the same weight. Why would it be that I cannot eat even a little over the 800. I guess it is what my body has got used to and it is bound to have an effect. I am reminded of a Dr Mosely Trust Me Im A Doctor programme when they took a ‘fat’ family who said they were big bones and had very slow metabolisms. They were tested extensively and found their bone density was the same as anyone else and rather than slower metabolisms, they had a high metabolism. This was explained as being the amount of energy being expended just to keep their bodies functioning even without any extra exercise. The conclusion was that fat / obese people have higher metabolic rates than slim people. So, in theory, was when we lose weight we need less calories to function so the lower calories have a lesser impact. Thank goodness for Dr Mosley, Dr Fund et al, for explaining these things to us. In conclusion I think I will always have to be careful about how much I eat for my weight, true is, even before this diet, I always had to watch how much I ate.

Hi All,

I noticed that some people were talking about one meal a day and how it can lower the Basal Metabolic Rate and this concerned me, as this is basically how I live. So I have spent some time researching this. I came up with the following….

“Is fasting every single day counterproductive?
I’m seeing a lot of conflicting information on appropriate fasting frequency. Generally speaking, is fasting, for say, 16 to 20 hours everyday a bad idea?

Sylvie

There are no right or wrong answers. The term ‘break-fast’ as the meal that breaks your fast implies that fasting should be done every day, as you cannot break a fast if you did not fast. Up to the 1970s, people would have a 12-14 hour fast every day. If you finish dinner by 6 pm and ate breakfast a 8 am, that is a 14 hour fasting period done every day.

That may have helped maintain weight in a healthy range, but what if you want/need to lose weight? Extending this fasting period may be beneficial. You can then extend this to 16, 18, 20 hours or whatever suits you. Find what works for you in your lifestyle (job, family etc.) and your body (bodies respond differently)

If you do, for example, one meal a day (OMAD) or a roughly 23 hour fast daily, you may do very well. In that case, continue. On the other hand, we see many people start to stall at a weight higher than they like. In that case, it is good to shake things up a little, to keep your body from adapting too much to this. Try alternating longer and shorter fasts, for example.

Dr. Jason Fung”

So it seems OMAD works for some and not others. Hope this helps. All information is gratefully received by me so please keep posting.

Take care peoples.

Nonna Mary
xxxx

Interesting, I have, in keeping with my name, been mixing it up this week, with a few OMAD days and a water fast of 42 hours. Dropped 6 pounds in 4 days, and feel great. I credit having always done this sort of mixing things up with the fact that my BMR does seem to have reset itself so I can eat 2000 calories a day as an average provided I am keeping up my activity levels. I also used the reverse diet (gradually increasing what you eat from a low restriction such as 800 calories to more than your calculated TDEE by for example adding an extra 150 calories a week or so) which speeds up the metabolism, so at the end I was eating well over 2000 calories a day and not gaining weight so the slow down in BMR if experienced need not be considered a permanent situation.

An interesting post from Jason Fung on intermittent fasting and time restricted eating with links to a Harvard post which in turn has a bunch of other quality links on the subject. The conclusion I am drawing, amongst others, is that snacking really is the killer and it’s something to be conscious of when we head into maintenance.
https://idmprogram.com/what-fasting-is-not-crazy-batsh-stupid/

What I really like about the idm site is that not only is it reinforcing of what we already know, but it
presents the information in a non technical way that is easy for anyone to understand. Thanks,
Maggie! I always try to find the time to follow your links!

I listened to this podcast today by Professor Longo, it had a lot of interesting snippets of information, there is a summary of the topics covered on the webpage.
https://www.kevinrose.com/single-post/valter-longo

On Audible The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz. Another one on the great cholesterol con.
Maggie

Thank you for all these helpful posts. I am working my way through the information in them. I’ve read the Gary Taubes book, and have just ordered Jason Fung’s Obesity Code, after following the links to his research from here.

It’s making me feel happier about what to do after the 8 weeks, as there are plenty of options to maintain, and hopefully to lose a bit more.