I have just listened to two programmes on BBC Radio 4’s ‘The Food Prgramme’ and I am truly saddened. The first programme was ‘The Eatwell Guide’, 2nd July 2018 and the second was the same day but is a short ‘unedited’ version of the interview with a Professor Levy of Public Health England. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06cp9kq hope this link works!

In a nutshell, the Eatwell Guide, which was published in March 2016, and is still ‘plate’ shaped although it’s not supposed to resemble a ‘plate’, is meant for those who are … ‘generally well’, according to a Prof. Levy. It is still suggesting one third of our diet should be starchy carbs, including breakfast cereal, albeit, weetabix. The reason given for the continued epidemic of obesity and diabetes etc. is that … “ the Guide is not wrong, people aren’t following it and that’s why it’s not working”

The main interview features Dr Unwin and Dr Aseem Malhotra together with Mark, a BSD’er. Both interviews are interesting but it looks like we are on our own here. Are we the ‘enlightened’ minority’s or are our government experts really correct. In my humble opinion the Eatwell Guide’ is the ‘dinosaur in the room’ that doesn’t look set to change anytime soon. Sad.

P.S. sorry if this topic has already been covered, I’m a bit out of touch. The link does work and the full interview can be accessed at the bottom of that page ‘eatwell(2)’

That is REALLY sad and it’s hard to see how these people can be so deluded. Surely they must understand that in all the years their mantra has been out there, there should have been some appreciable positive result by now, instead of which, things are getting worse and worse, year on year. And to be REALLY cynical, big corporations whether in the high carb food business or pharmaceuticals hold great sway and don’t want the truth out there.

Maybe at some point there will be enough scientific evidence to convince these blind people of the low carb truth and wisdom will prevail. Meanwhile, I guess we just need to keep doing what we are doing and encouraging others to join us to spread the word.

Yes SunnyB you are right and we should all feel cynical. Commercial interests do play a part in the advice given in the ‘scientific’ evaluation of the research that the Eatwell Guide is based on. Although Prof. Levy does try to play this down.
I just wonder how many years of scientific ‘evidence’ of the benefits of low carb eating will be enough to change the minds of the powers to be. How many more people will need to reverse their diabetes before this WOE is proven. I always feel, when reading or listening to sceptics of low carb eating, that the assumption is that we eat NO carbs. And don’t we all know how difficult it is to get below 50g a day never mind be totally carb free!
One question I have is …. how much harm can we do to our health if we do restrict carbs? Nobody seems to tell us what the dangers are, they just keep repeating the mantra of the Eatwell Guide….. a third of the ‘plate’ should be starchy carbs. Maybe they are asking the wrong questions. Maybe the question should be what harm can it do to eat low carb rather than ‘assunming’ that restricting carbs automatically means increasing saturated fats, which I think is the basic assumption.

Verano – as a person who fell for the low fat high starchy carb mantra hook line and sinker – it makes me very sad also. In 2012 when diagnosed with diabetes and put on insulin – I followed the guidelines to the letter. So I ate 50g of starchy carbs with every meal and carefully worked out how much insulin to inject to keep BS under control. This regime ensured that the diabetes complications just got worse and worse and I was galloping towards losing my sight and my right foot.

In 2016 – enter the BSD Cavalry to the rescue. Am now in remission and eyes and feet are safe – thanks to MM and the BSD and everyone on this forum.

When my eye problem was reversed I had a horrible appointment with a consultant at the eye clinic (not my usual lovely consultant who was very interested in how I had reversed the eye problems). The horrible consultant actually shouted at me – saying that I was totally deluded if I thought I could bring diabetes into remission as I must accept that diabetes was a progressive illness and I would just get worse and worse and I would suffer increasing damage to my body as the years went on. He was actually absolutely right – if I followed the advice to eat starchy carbs and low fat, that is exactly what would happen – as surely as night follows day.

So I am happy to be a trailblazer for this way of eating and am also happy that I have the support of a very clued up Diabetes Nurse who is 100% behind low carb eating as a way to combat T2D. I am so sorry for the 165 people every week who have a foot amputated because they mistakenly believed that following the eat starchy carb mantra would help them control their diabetes. Actually – I am not just sorry it actually makes me want to cry.

The advice isn’t wrong, but people aren’t following it, eh? Sounds a little like victim blaming to me to suggest that following their advice and not seeing an improvement is the fault of those trying to follow it. As well as not being ideal, high carb low fat diets are really hard to stick to in the short term and make many people unhappy. In the long term they’re almost impossible to keep up – almost everyone puts back the weight and more, even if they followd it exactly.

Best thing we can do is to look and feel great and when anyone asks why that is we tell them.

Love this thread, thanks Ladies!

Krysia – not that I’m defending him, but I wonder if the consultant was confusing T1 and T2 diabetes? You are walking talking proof of what can be achieved by eating the right way, which for sure the pharmaceutical companies don’t want us to know. Great that you have a really clued up Diabetes nurse – lets hope she is encouraging others in her care to follow your example.

SunnB – sad to say he wasn’t confusing T1 and T2. He clearly stated T2D. I suppose – in his defence – as an eye consultant I suppose he sees the terrible damage that T2D causes and I was probably the first person he had seen who was following the BSD – so it was not surprising he thought I was deluding myself.

Krysia, when you say 20 g of carbs, do you mean gross carbs minus fiber.

Krysia I think that man was truly a monster. It’s no wonder some people are in fear of doctors. He had no right to shout at you. Possibly he felt threatened by your success and by the fact that you were not conforming to ‘conventional wisdom’. Thank goodness you weren’t undermined by him but carried on doing what you knew was working.
Violinist in the U.K. carb figures are given net of fibre although the amount of fibre is also listed. In the US they are gross figures so you have to remove the fibre to get the net amount. I think that’s right but if not somebody will correct me.

Verano, thank you so much!!!

Verano – I think that one of the joys of getting older is I feel I can stand up for myself more robustly than when I was younger. I have looked for that Doctor on every visit but have never seen him again. I would just love to update him on my progress so he may perhaps take time to do some research on the issue.

That’s a horrible experience, Krysia! I think that our doctor’s need to be our partners in
designing a treatment plan, not authority figures that tell us what to do. I’ve always
been a little on the feisty side (okay, a lot!), and I’m sure I would of told that abusive
guy that his manner was unacceptable, and then terminated the consultation (probably wouldn’t
have paid the bill, either!) Glorious though, that you ignored his advice!!! Really over-
bearing! The medical profession attracts a higher percentage of narcissists than other
professions, with actors being at the top of the list, followed next by politicians…Doc’s
are third on the list. I’m speaking of the clinical definition, i.e., grandiose opinion of themselves,
along with 5 or more other personality traits, ( not the garden variety misunderstood belief
that a narcissist is simply a vain and self absorbed person.) Unfortunately, narcissistic
personality disorder is largely untreatable and also progressive, so he probably wouldn’t
have ever acknowledged your results or learned anything from them!

Interesting info there, Allie – and a little concerning perhaps!

Hi Guys
Verano – thanks for posting the link. I listened with interest in my lunch break to the unedited interview with Prof Levy – it also made me feel quite cross! Like a politician, he chose his words carefully preferring to focus on cutting back on sugar and fat. Why didn’t Sheila Dillon mention that the 33% depicted refined carbs on the (not really a plate!) plate, also turn into sugar once digested?
I wish our friends like Allie and Violinist were able to access bbc iplayer as I know you’d both be interested to have heard the interview.
We’ll just have to keep spreading the word amongst ourselves and with the help of of the likes of Aseem, MM et al!
Kysia – a doc got impatient and grumped me once when the standard size cuff for the BP machine didn’t fit and he had to find a larger one… “…tut, you see, this is what happens when you have fat arms….!” I was already mortified cos the cuff didn’t fit. 18 months later when I saw him again, and after losing 80 lbs, I reminded him of what he had said! Most satisfying! He did have the good grace to look embarrassed! I thought docs were gods in my youth! So glad I’m middle aged! 🙂
Kazzeexx

It is, Sunny. We really do need to become our own advocates, don’t we? I hope that the
NHS allows you to chose your own doctors and hospitals of choice. Most Americans still
have private insurance, but there are about 30% of the population that would like to see
a single payer system, similar to yours and Canada’s. I know far more about NPD than
I ever wanted to know, because I have one very abusive sister afflicted with it…Her narcissistic
rages are textbook, along with the verbal abuse, so I’ve had to become sufficiently educated
on the subject in order to protect myself. Now I can recognize a narcissistic personality
at 100 paces, and run in the opposite direction!

Very interesting Allie. I am surprised politicians come above doctors!
Kazz if you listen to the full interview which features Aseem Malhotra there is more mention of carbs. Dr Unwin calls some carbohydrates ‘almost sugars’ because they act in the same way. Are you sure the link won’t work out of the U.K.? It would useful to compare our ‘eatwell ‘ advice to that of the US but I’m sure they are pretty similar.

So I thought I would search the internet and see what ‘bad’ things can happen to us on a low carb diet. I think that when low carb is mentioned it’s assumed that it’s Atkins type eating, with unlimited amounts of saturated fat, and hence there are two problems. The first is high cholesterol and by the way there is a new study into cholesterol where they argue that any LDL is bad. They say that cholesterol can’t be low enough. The second is dangerously low blood sugar. Makes you wonder why the connection with blood sugar is made yet it’s not translated into a way to reverse diabetes. Anyway, looks like ‘you pays your money and you takes your chance’.
Let’s hope, in the long term, we have backed the right horse! I think we have but time, rather than scientists, will tell at the end of the day.

Do you all remember when the first warnings about trans-fats (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated fats) starting leaking out?
I remember I was in college, so that is in the mid 1970’s. When I read the evidence, that hydrogenated fats are particularly bad for your arteries, I switched from margarine to butter and I read labels carefully to avoid buying cakes/cookies or anything g else eithhudrogenated fat on the label.
Fast forward to the early 2000’s — the research became overwhelming and there was finally a public call to food producers to stop using these fats.
That’s probably 35 years from the first warnings to some real action being taken by corporations and government guidelines.
I’m thinking it will be the same for sugar and carbohydrates. Ultimately the research is going to be overwhelming.

Kazz, I can’t get that?

Do so hope you are right Californiagirl.

Hi Verano – For some reason, I thought iplayer wouldn’t work for people outside of the UK, in the US at least, due to restrictions. I thought Allie had trouble playing iplayer links in the past but I may be wrong. Please say Allie and Violinist if you are able to access and play. I may be getting mixed up with YouTube. 🙂
I do remember that, CaliforniaGirl. Depressing if it’s going to take another 30 odd years before our governments revise their recommendations!

I think you are right about BBC iplayer not being accessible outside the UK, as the IP address is used to identify the country you’re in and will restrict access if you aren’t in the UK. We used a proxy served to try to bypass this when we were in Turkey, but even that doesn’t work for long and access to programmes will be suspended when the IP address is traced.