Well here we are again folks more advice please
quick re- cap
Im supporting Husband on this Im not diabetic but weight loss welcome)
Doc wouldn’t support said was a fad diet
ignored and we started the 8 week 800 cal blood sugar diet
not without ups and downs in terms of blood sugar readings flashing ketosis lights etc ! all supported and excellent advice given to us on this forum.
diet was no real problem hungry some times but I enjoyed finding/researching/cooking recipes – lucky Husband !
Weight dropped along with blood sugar down to 5^s 6^s and low 7^s
Husband was on Gliz and Metf 2x daily slowly stopped the Glitz completely and by week 7 was on just one tab of Metf morning and evening
week 7 out of the blue invitation from GP for my Husband to attend a “clinical diabetes consultation by a pharmacist at the surgery. (small print paid for by drug company)
We both went and had intended to give the Pharmacist “what for ” but listened to what he had to say. The Surgery had arranged for all their Diabetic patients and pre diabetic to have this clinical assessment. To be fair he did understand the role of carbs/sugar etc He took an HB1Ac test (had portable machine) We told him about the diet and the theory behind it about Husbands weight loss (over 2 stone)and the lower blood sugar levels etc.He was very concerned that Husb had stopped the Gliz saying absolutely not without his HBA dropping dramatically. At this point the machine beeped and the result was in He looked grinned leant forward shook my husbands hand and said “congratulations that is amazing you can stop taking the rest of the metf. your number has gone from 95 to 42 ” Tears of relief and euphoric.

Go home 2hrs later receive call from Pharmacist saying although the (doubting Thomas)Doctor was pleased he said to keep taking the metf for another 3 months until another test in 3 months time . I said all that would prove is that the readings are still being assisted by the drugs he said he thought we would no doubt make our own mind up. forgot to say the surgery also took a Hba test from a vein,
We decided to complete the full 8 weeks and are just increasing cals slowly we are on 950/100 adding a little extra olive oil slightly larger piece of chicken or piece of cheese or similar to up the cals slowly

Decided to take just half a tab of metf morn and evening all well (still occasional morning dawn high) when suddenly last few days getting readings of 9-10 even a 12.5 HELP is it the extra calories we still very lowcarb no sugar etc.

Went to the diabetic nurse today for the result of the veinous HBa test which was 45 (little higher than the pharmacists) said should go back to 2x full tabs of Metf and stay on that as protection from re occurrence whilst saying at least 3 times there is no cure for diabetes ! but when I said it was possible to get remission she vvvv grudgingly almost agreed . This Nurse still thinks its ok to have wholemealtoast and cereal for breakfast !!

So folks what the heck should we do ? She didn’t seem to understand my Husbands quest to be drug free his BP has tested 120/80 for a year she said its only that good level because of the BP tablet he takes and if he stopped taking it his blood pressure would go up.!

Feels like we are trudging through mud
in order to get the Blood sugar level down again is it back to stay on the meds ?
opinions advice folks please

Hi Marxistfood – sounds like you are banging your head again a wall! I come at this from A) no medical expertise and B) a non-diabetic, but my suggestion would be to continue with the BSD and for your husband to take the level of medication he is comfortable with, then to have the assessments the surgery is insisting on, when I think they should see sustained improvements.

I’m sure others with a good solid base of knowledge when it comes to diabetes, will be along soon to offer an opinion with a much stronger basis.

Best of luck to you both as you move forward

Congratulations on the weight loss for you both and drop in bs readings for your husband.

It’s a real shame that your doctor isn’t supportive, especially as you’ve proved this works. Is it possible for you to change doctors or diabetic nurse to one who is more sympathetic to this approach? Not sure where you live . In the Uk you can just ask to change without needing to explain why, but that’s only any good if there is someone else to change to.

Hi Marxisfood it really is a difficult path to tread. Some doctors and diabetes nurses are enlightened but the majority aren’t. When I started my journey two years ago my HBA1C was around 6.4 with 2000mg of slow release metformin once a day. Firstly can I just say that metformin only reduces your blood sugar by 10% maximum so in the grand scheme of things not a great amount.

This way of eating does work and low carbs do bring down blood sugars. Mine were normal at my first HbA1c four months after I started this way of eating. I was quite happy to carry on for another six months taking metformin, it’s not really such a bad drug, but my next test was lower so then the nurse reduced my medication by half. Three months later after my next test I was finally drug free.

So my advice, for what it’s worth, is to keep going along with the nurse. 45 is still mid-prediabetic range. Next time your husband has a blood test if it’s less than 42 then ask to reduce the metformin.

The blood pressure is a seperate issue. Sort out the blood sugars first, become metformin free and then start working on the blood pressure drugs. For many medics this really is still a ‘fad’ diet and there is no real proof that, in the long term, people can stay with this way of eating. Because, at the end of the day, this really is a life long diet change and it may not be sustainable for everyone. So, yes, I can understand the reluctance on the part of medical professionals, because if we do revert to eating high carb foods then our diabetes could return and they would then be accused of negligence.

There is no hurry, your husband will get there and be drug free but just have a little patience and go with the flow. Good luck!

V., very interesting comments! Although I was never prediabetic or T2D, I’m always interested in learning more about
it because it hangs over the head of many of you. I’d never considered that medics are not on board fully because
they fear that this WOE isn’t sustainable. Of course we know it is !!! Do you think that patient’s will is being under-
estimated by the NHS? Do they not want to take the time to educate their patients about the urgency of the situation,
or is it partly a matter of liability? I’m curious about the role that you think big pharma plays in all of it, too! Lots of
questions, I know…But I’m interested in your thoughts! 🙂

Allie

Allie I’m not sure that we do know that this WOE is sustainable in the long term. Two years isn’t ‘the long term’ in the grand scheme of things. Personally I don’t think that patient’s ‘will’ is being underestimated. We have seen so many people come and go on these boards and we have no idea how many had diabetes issues, or how many reversed their diabetes , and even more importantly how many are still in remission or have succumbed to diabetes again. I really think that the medics in the U.K. are being responsible if they don’t rush to remove medication. Who knows what happens, in the long term, if a doctor says …. ‘great you have cured your diabetes go away but keep doing what you are doing’ and then doesn’t keep a check?
From a personal point of view, I’m delighted that my practice continues to monitor me, although now just once a year, so that if I do fall by the wayside they can pick it up and we can reassess the situation again at that time!

Hi Marxistfood,

Firstly, that’s brilliant news about your husband’s latest Hba1c result. I don’t know what his initial Hba1c result was, but as Verano says, 45 is back down at the level of someone who is prediabetic. Given that the Hba1c reflects your husband’s average blood glucose level over the past 8-12 weeks that’s a great result.

GPs and practice staff, and the NHS in general, are completely out of synch with this way of managing diabetes. While there are pockets of low carb good practice it just isn’t there in the mainstream of GP practices and primary care teams yet. So, for me, I believe that means for now I must make the decisions as to what’s best for me in managing my own diabetes, reducing my blood sugar levels etc while I wait for them to catch up.

I agree with SunnyB, your husband should decide what he’s most comfortable doing. He can work with his GP practice and take the increased Metformin as they ask – and let his future Hba1c results speak for themselves, and they will (because they already are!).

Alternatively, he can continue slowly, slowly reducing his metformin on his own as he has been doing. There are a lot of previous posters on here who have reduced their metformin themselves, and if you search on the Forums on diabetes.co.uk you will find a lot of posts from people who have also successfully reduced their metformin on their own. If you do this, if it were me, I’d be guided by my meter – if he sees a consistent drop in his bgls he could reduce his Metformin, maybe by half a tablet, and if he sees a consistent rise in his bgls he could increase them again.

Best wishes to both of you. Do let us know how you get on. Personally, I think you’ve both done brilliantly.

Marie xx
edited: In fact, whether he goes with his GPs advice or continues reducing the tablets as he’s been doing, he should keep monitoring his bgls. I’m sure he intends to xx

Thanks all again it is comforting that ” we are not alone !!” Husband decided to go back to one full tablet twice a day and as you say let the next HBa test speak for its self in the mean time this mornings reading was 15.5 and ketosis flashing ! been here before nothing terrible happened Is the Ketosis to do with nutrition rather than the the dangerous Ketosis can anyone enlighten us we did a 800 calorie day yesterday building calories slowly back up but intend to always have a couple of 800 days perhaps that was the reason ?

thanks all hope we can eventually offer support and advice too (can offer a simple recipe for cheesey meringues great alternative when folks are eating cheese biscuits and fairly low cal for when you are having only 800 cals !) egg whites whisked either with cream of tartar or little lemon juice whisk to high peaks gently stir in a strong (measured amount if you only have limited calories) cheese. add littyle dried garlic I/mixed herbs if you prefer pipe or spoon little blobs on to a non stick baking sheet bake at lowest oven setting for 2 hrs then leave oven door open for an hour if you want them extra crispy. Our dinner guests snaffled these instead of the biscuits (lesson learnt) Just remembered buy the cheap version of an air fryer cut courgettes Aubergines etc into thick rounds sprinkle with mixed herbs garlic or chilli etc and air fry them great for emergency snacks and if you slightly overcook them they are very crispy a texture we missedsomething crispy very much during the 800 cals weeks thanks all wish we could offer more in return for the support we are getting.

Like many of you, I’m not diabetic, nor pre-diabetic – by luck more than anything I would imagine.

Something has got to change in the health profession. And I actually think a lot is..

My wife is a GP – and her recent professional study magazine had, for the first time, an article about GPs being offered nutrition and healthy eating advice – along the lines of low carb, high fat – I think it was something along the lines of ‘everything in moderation’ – but its a step in the right direction at least.

I know that my wife is hoping to run a trial for her practice when she comes back from maternity leave..

The more, the merrier I think.

Hope you get a bit more support! Keep up the good work!

Marxistfood, thank you for the lovely recipe suggestions.

Thank you Marxistfood I will try both of your recipes. The cheesy meringues sound lovely. But even better you have now given me a great idea for my redundant air fryer!

Marxistfood – Sounds like you and your husband have a good plan going forward which is great. (I’m afraid I haven’t got any answers on the 15.5 reading. Let us know how it goes). Also, you are offering support already – every story shared helps me, I promise xx

Btw, me too on the cheesy meringue recipe, sounds delicious. It’ll join the list of things I’m going to try.
But the aubergine/courgette recipe – sadly, I have no idea what an air fryer is !?!

Tom – yes, I agree about things happening within the NHS and I’m optimistic – I knew about the GP training, and I’m really delighted to hear about your wife’s plans. I just wish there was more happening and that it was more widespread. But, I’ve no doubt it will happen …. eventually!

thanks lovely people any further advice on a reading of 15.5 monitor flashing ketosis is ketosis dangerous for type 2 folk or is that a “different ketosis”

Marxistfood – as we are not medically qualified we cannot answer your question. If you are in the UK you could ring NHS 111. The reading of 15.5 is very high.

Marxistfood – have been thinking about your query overnight. My understanding of nutritional ketosis is that we cannot be in nutritional ketosis when blood sugars are high because the body has switched to the burning glucose mode – and has switched off burning ketones. We need lower blood sugars and strictly limited carbs to go into nutritional ketosis. The blood sugar monitor is flashing ketosis because 15.5 may put us at risk of ketoacidosis.

The only time that I went into the bad ketosis was when I was admitted to hospital prior to my diagnosis with a BS of 26+ and ketones. I was told by a doctor that I was hours away from a fatal coma. I had apparently been running out of control blood sugars for a long time (HB1aC 125). With low BS and low carbs I do go in and out of mild nutritional ketosis which is a different sort of ketosis.

Wow! A little ray of sunshine peeping through perhaps! Congratulations on your new arrival . . , and all the very best for the trial project. From what is being posted here the results cannot be denied 🙂 They arent all by coincidence.

Thanks for asking Allie! I feel Im doctor shopping right now. And I dont feel good about that. But my (previously wonderful, approachable) GP is looming as a boogie-lady when next I need to visit. Thats because I tried 3 meds, was SO glad when Med No. 4 samples at the surgery had all been utilised! and I had a reprieve! With eyes tested as I annually do, I dutifully followed up on foot exams, diabetic nurse and diabetic advisor – (whom I wrote to a cuple of weeks after starting this eating programme and felt dismissed with a curt reply along the lines of “well youre on charge now so . . .” (to me meaning . . you refused my advice so youre on your own.”) To continue . . . ALL tests were not showing ANYTHING abnormal or damaged, and none of these people thought my diet had flaws!!! Even though my BS readings indicated these unacceptable levels had been present for some time. Even though I ASKED DIRECTLY about specific readings after specific foods! (eg. Crispbread lunch, oatmeal breakfasts and my home-made from scratch soups.) It was pills short and simple – and when I couldnt tolerate them – injections were next. I refused until I checked out other avenues. A chance comment from my sons workmate and finding the BSD book in a charity shop THE SAME DAY showed me the way. I want to go back to them ALL and scream at what my body had to endure with the meds. while all I needed to do was stop the basic big three for me . . . oatmeal, crispbread occasionally and my home made soups. Now Ive refined it even further and from 12-13-14-15’s in just 5 weeks I have the occasional (rising or before meals readings) of 5+ which is like achieving a lottery win . . . and mainly 6’s across the board. Stable and reliable. I still have an Immunologist appointment to attend in 10 weeks time . . . and Im curious as to whether these readings will be lowered even further by then. I now have greater hope for not having those meds in my life . . . and having already shed a whopping 11kgs – look and feel amazing – even the blood pressure pill may be discarded too. Who knows? But I do feel like Ive been screaming in the dark. And to those I was directed to attend for help and advice.

Ive just found real words on how I feel regarding the medicos and advisors and nurse – (bar ONE) – I have seen thus far. I feel cheated. Cheated because they are our “go to” people – and others we are directed to – for yet another layer of confirmation we are in health crisis . . . and while we are reassured they are there for us when we need assistance . . . its been my experience they haven’t . . . bar the one individual who was extremely encouraging and gave me an enormous boost when confirming my confusion and concerns re Diabetes Australia still putting carbs on their “approved” foods “cutout” plate handout. I saw an official from DA on a highly regarded TV forum programme – with Dr MM the central person . . . and when the adjudicator asked him – (the DA representative . . .) – why carbs were clearly approved on their literature . . . the stuttering, searching fir words waffle answer which was uttered was staggeringly obvious that there wasnt any revealable reason. I rest my case. I feel fortunate to have (at this stage anyways) – escaped some clutches. And yes I feel as though I was being fooled by so called experts . . . treated like a mushroom . . . but was saved from a way more troublesome pathway than I am currently walking with something far more simple than meds. Please Lord may it continue.

Woodduckie, wow!!!! Love the story!! How about sharing your soup ingredients you love so much!

Hi! Willing to share BUT PLEASE NOTE ******* THESE ALL BLEW MY BSL’S OUT OF THE BALL PARK!!! ****************** I always used REAL ingredients and cooked from scratch. Pea and hamhock is below but Ill start with 1. Chicken carcass/wings/legs. 2. lamb neck bones 3. beef bones were the bases.
All three would have onions, mixed veges – (not always fresh because a bag of frozen mixed ones whatever selection) worked just as well . . . some “soup stock powder ‘ tiny tins of different flavours – (used these because they kept better than stock cubes and as I live alone making a batch with a whole litre box of liquid wasnt always practical). I would sometimes put the veges and water in an old blender to have them nice and fine . . . but chunky was OK as well. I would prepare all this the night before . . . and add the old-fashioned dried soup mix to the beef or lamb versions . . . barley to the chicken. But Im a no frills cook and just toss in whatever I have most times 🙂 Left sit overnight . . . this softened the dried grains and on the next day would stir well before heating, bringing to the boil and then simmer until meat separated from the bones. In the case of pea and hamhock soup . . . the onions would be cut small or again put through the blender with the required liquid – didnt always use any stock powder. . . I might put some crushed garlic or cracked pepper in with it all – and again, steep overnight with the bag of dried split peas – usually the common yellow ones. I could freeze two or three meals . . . and have one or two in the fridge for either a lunch, afternoon cup instead of tea or coffee . . . or a light dinner . . . not all on the one day!!! Crispbreads or Vita weet substituted for toast . . . and “advisors” thought this was healthy . . .? So did I until I read Dr. Moseley’s book . . . and saw what those carbs had been doing to me. But Im sure there are others who could eat them and have no issues. I know my (almost 50yo) son LOVED them when we went away with my grandsons and I took some frozen boxes to save cooking. 🙂

Hi all,

Ok your post has wound me up because of the GP/medical/related professions. You and your husband have done a brilliant job and I believe if you aren’t off your meds by now you soon will be. Keep it up.

As in every profession there are good and not so good and the medical profession is no exception. I believe that unfortunately many GPS don’t keep up to date with research and I do appreciate that they are busy. On the other hand I have a GP (luckily) who has a keen interest in diabetes and totally believes in the low carb diet and what it means. It also means I can’t get away with anything! At my last appointment we had a very interesting conversation and he said that although the medical profession knows what to do when a person becomes diabetic, there is very little research regarding when are you not a diabetic i.e. when do you stop being a diabetic. My argument is that surely when our blood sugars are below the required level then we are no longer diabetic, which he agrees with. Most of the medical profession (and you can include insurance companies here) would say that we would be food controlled diabetics and not free/cured of diabetes. There just isn’t any/enough research out there to support us.

So I think that we are the trail blazers who will provide those stats and evidence that this diet really is the answer to diabetes and only by us doing this good work and talking about it will things begin to change.

Good luck to you all, you are doing a great job!

Jules xx
(sorry for the rant but it makes me mad)

WoodDuckie – just wanted you to know I made a very successful stirfry, thanks to your recipe! It was delicious and I shall have the same stir fry veggies for dinner most nights this week because it was so quick and easy!

Chocciechops Jules – the majority of us here echo your annoyance and frustration. Have a look at the Take a Look thread. There are podcasts where Dr Aseem Malhotra (sorry spelling?) has an awful lot to say, and he’s just one of many trying to spread the word to the massess, along with MM. May make you feel slightly more encouraged. Meanwhile, we’ll just be trailblazers! 🙂

Kazzeexx

Hey there!!! Just got back from a few precious days away and found your message/posting re my “recipes!” SO GLAD you liked it! I did an amazing REALLY quick pork one tonight. Unpacking leftovers from the trip – (which was shortened by leaving this afternoon rather than tomorrow morning) – . . I just cleared the fridge into my Esky and we headed home. SO I had Diced pork and bacon . . . needing to be cooked like tonight!!! Grilled the bacon slightly while putting the diced pork into the pan. Then followed . . . several sliced rings of leek . . . separated . . . chopped celery – (SO HUNGRY I just opened the packet at the top end and cut three or four times across ALL the sticks!!!) . . . rough cut two large mushrooms that needed cooking . . . about half a cup of water . . . some dried onion flakes . . . waved the “Asian 5” grinder over the top several times . . . stirred until it was sticking to the pan any more . . . put the bacon slices on top of the lot, lowered the heat, put the lid on had my shower and shampooed quickly . . . and yummo . . . tummy said “thank you I havent been forgotten!!!!” 🙂