Eating out is a nightmare! I am eating out a fair bit at moment as it’s summer holidays and we go places with kids but it seems there’s always something they didn’t mention on the menu or I forgot to ask about. Today I ordered a veg tagine (no cous cous) but it arrived super sweet with raisins and peas – fine for most people and completely obvious when you think about it. Few mouthfuls in I thought ‘nope, this is wrong’ so ordered scrambled eggs and salmon (no toast). Luckily nice man v sympathetic and didn’t charge me full price. Then I ate too much scrambled egg etc because I felt it would be rude not to. (Stupid, because I’m a customer for god’s sake, I get to put me first in this situation). Now very, very full and a bit frustrated. But if I stay this full at least I won’t need much tonight! Green salad here I come!

Hi wibbly, 🙂
On an earlier post you mention only expecting to eat 584 cals by the end of the day.
Do be aware that if you eat too little your body will think food is short and start clinging on to your fat stores for dear life. There is a good reason why this is the fast 800, not the fast 500! Eating only 500 calories is fine, as part of the 5:2, i.e. when eating as much as you like without thinking about calories or how much you have already eaten in between fasting days, but not good at all when you are only eating 800 routinely. I expect there are a few people out there that manage on 500 to 800, but it’s not usual, and it’s certainly not me!

Try and keep to around 800, and if you still aren’t losing much by next week’s weigh in, try actually eating more, for a couple of days at least.

Incidentally, I gave up almonds as a substitute for flour on account of the high calories. I also eat minimal amounts of pulses. 🙁

Thank you for your response Ancient Weaver. However I refer you to pages 104-5 of Dr MM’s Book which considers the fear of starvation mode to be a myth and also p.255 where he approves of averaging. Averaged over a week I am consuming 800 a day. Today, because I am glum, I will go over albeit on an exceedence of protein – roast sirloin of beef seems a good mood lifter.

Starvation mode isn’t a myth, it is just a myth that it can be caused by intermittent fasting. It is a while since I have read the book but I am sure he describes the actual conditions where the body can enter this mode. If you have been seriously calorie restricted for more than 6 months you may find some metabolic slow down (actually caused by an increase in efficiency) that needs a metabolism ‘kick start’ to get your metabolism moving again. The way this is done is to increase your calories gradually over several weeks, usually after you have reached your target weight or size. Several of us who are now maintaining experienced the effect that we actually lost more weight/body fat while increasing our calories that seems to suggest this adaptation had temporarily occurred while we were following calorie restricted diets, in some cases, including mine, over several years.

Well, first day done💪🏻
I’ve ended on 974 cal and 34 g carbs. Over, yes, but I’m pleased: no hunger pangs and two delicious meals with a square of 85% choc to boot. Yum.
I feel happy and strong. Day one done ✅👍🏼

Mixnmatch – I agree. What MM is saying is that it does not happen overnight – 6 months semi-starvation (as just post-war research showed)will do it but not daily fluctuations. Indeed one more recent test of starvation for 84 hours (nothing but water) showed metabolic rate rose 14%. So one day on just under 600 is unlikely to induce a metabolic slow down.

I need this to work in case the next CT scan show surgery (and hence gen. anaesthetic) is immediately required. What I was asking was had others found the diet gave a slow start to weight loss?

Well done DutchJamesy.

Wibbly, I was reading other posts and someone said they were slow. Someone else said that the loss of fat around the organs doesn’t seem to always show the same on the scales as the other fat. Do any of your other measurements feel different? So frustrating for you – have you completely cut carbs?? I wonder if that is the way forward rather than strictly following the 800 calorie rule – which I think MM chose because it was tight but not horrific. I ask from reading other posts really low (less than 20g carbs) seems to work and also because that is my experience – I’m not calorie counting though am limiting what I eat to as little as possible without going mad.

There’s a post here somewhere about plateauing you might find helpful. I know it’s a bit soon to be plateauing but the advice was good.

Hope that helps even if I can’t directly by answering your question

http://healthfully.net/2012/02/14/when-you-eliminate-insulin-stimulating-carbohydrates/

Just found this in the Forum thread about success stories. That’s a real inspiring read, by the way. Talks about why drinking water so important. Just off to have a glass, once I get the cat off my lap!

Hi there Wibbly
Thank you for posting the question about slow start and Sunny B for your comment. I’ve been doing this for 13 days now and have lost 2 kg. or 4.4 pounds which felt frustrating compared to some of the weight loss that I read.
I thought at first I was doing something wrong and appreciate all the advice. Will focus on hydration the next days since my calories and carbs seem to be in line.
originally I thought I would only do the 800 program for 2 weeks because I couldn’t imagine that I wouldn’t be hungry. I rarely am!!!!!
I actuallly find it quite simple to stick to the basics so I guess I just have to be humble and accept I am also a slow loser.
I notice funny things like that when crossing my legs they go further and that I can see the bone in my knees. I believe I lost a couple of cm on my waistline but then it stopped.
I will now commit to another 2 weeks on the 800 program and then evaluate again. I won’t weight myself until the 27th since,it makes me restless.
Thank you all for doing this together…it feels really good

The really huge losses in the first week some of us experienced (9 pounds for me if I remember correctly) include a lot of retained water, whether because of glycogen or retained sodium due to excessive prior quantities of carbs. If you were already on a lowish carbohydrate diet this loss will have already occurred but more slowly. Subcutaneous fat and visceral fat also seem to behave differently when they are burnt, visceral fat loss doesn’t seem to result in any weight loss, probably because the organs themselves are regenerated when the fat is removed. Measuring your waist can be very reassuring at that point as that seems to be when the big losses show on the tape measure instead. Subcutaneous fat comes with the whoosh effect, where fat cells initially fill up with water molecules (smaller than fat molecules so again measurements will decrease or clothes become looser) finally letting go at sometimes several pounds seemingly overnight. If you are already drinking 3+ litres of water a day, and getting plenty of healthy fats in your diet then slow and steady will get you there in the end.

Do a search for “stalling” on here.

If starvation mode doesn’t exist, why do you assume I was referring to it?

Day one done. Ended up at 900 but that’s not bad in comparison to my usual amount so a successful day. Tomorrow – must drink more water and go to bed earlier ! Good luck all !!

Have returned from a long weekend away with my family, separated from my scales and, for sociability reasons, eating scaled down amounts of the non carb parts of what everyone else has been eating. Result on scales when I returned was the same as when I left, so not a disaster but not great. Coming up to two week review point tomomorrow and so far only 4 kgs down, which is a bit disappointing. Have decided not to drink coffee for the duration because I’m drinking too much milk with it. Am also more in the swing of rigorously monitoring portions and calories to stay with 800 limit, +/- 50. 10 weeks to go.

Good luck everyone

Thanks Amsterdamjoins and Mixnmatch, useful perspectives for me.
J

Interesting post
J

Michael Moseley does say starvation mode is a myth. As another post has explained one research showed an increase in metebolism when very low calorie eating was the mode

Messyhen: well done!
My challenge will be going back to work (school) at the end of the month.
I’m generally ok in the holidays when I’m well rested and relaxed however during term time I get stressed, more hungry and find goodies at work hard to resist…

Day 2 of Week 3 and I have plateau’d – in fact I seem to have put on 1.5 kilos since yesterday, even though I got my daily calorie intake down to 800 over the past 3 or 4 days.

Weighed myself this morning (I weigh myself every morning at 7:30) and was dismayed and disappointed to see I had put on weight overnight. Can’t understand it, and it feels as though I will never lose the weight I need to lose. My body seems to actively be resisting change.

I’ve also upped my exercise regime as well, with lots of power-walking and jogging, and am drinking lots of water. Even though I’m now drinking lots of water (necessitating lots of trips to the loo during the day/ night), I still wake up completely dehydrated in the mornings. Can’t understand that.

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks mixnmatch…..learning, learning, learning. :-))))

Wobbly hang in there I am in week six and after week 1 for two weeks I lost nothing then lost 2kilos at next weigh in. Tough it out – keep walking and keep drinking like crazy.

News from Italy I am down another half kilo in last five days and this morning I ran through bologna at 1.30 mins faster per on than normal so seeing lots of benefits – in total on week 6 I am 7kg down so thrilled really!

Additional tip for Dutch and messy- I find I am actually not always hungry first thing so I wait and see how long I can give it before I am truly famished – today I didn’t eat till 1pm. I stop eating by 6pm on 6 days out of 7 allowing for a. Social later dinner with my husband as we are on holiday and I want him to feel he can enjoy himself with me – and he has been so supportive . We have 3kg more for me to lose to qualify for ivf on nhs by our deadline of my 39th birthday in just over two weeks so I need your encouragement and support to keep walking past the best gelato shops in the world!!!!!

Dear Onetowatch,

Run past those gelato shops! Promise yourself a return trip next spring, when you can indulge 🙂 I am trying to lose about the same amount in the same time frame ( although my reason isn’t as serious as yours) and am trying to be as active as possible as well as low carb , 800 calories etc. Could you go hiking and enjoy the Italian countryside, swimming etc. out dancing every evening? Am keeping everything crossed for you and am sure everybody else is too!

Onetowatch – keep it up and know that we are all wishing you to a)make your deadline weight and b)have a lovely baby. That is the one sort of weight gain that we shall all be happy to hear you have achieved!

I have one piece of good news to report – my trousers keep falling down! Since the weight hasn’t significantly decreased I think my tummy has migrated…

Having sulked over the lack of weight loss I am having a zero carb day – not even a damned radish and planning my campaign to get my carbs right down. Many years ago I did well on Atkins so it shouldn’t be too hard. ..I hope.

Onetowatch, you can SO do this!! Keep on keeping on!!

Re your intermittent fasting advice: funnily enough, I prefer eating my food earlier in the day and not eating later on. Weird uh? I’m always hungry in the morning. I’ve tried holding off but just get more miserable. Love me some eggs in the morning and keeping the evening free for things other than cooking and eating 😀

RitaRyvita – me too re: waking up thirsty. Thirsty all day, in fact!

Putting weight on – muscle? Water? I didn’t lose any today. Look a bit different though. Can tell where my ribs will be.

Low carb day again, but can’t be bothered with eating greens tonight, so not the healthiest day since I’ve started.

Went to gym though.

Ah thanks lovely folks – I feel like punching the sky!

Dutch – gotta do what works – it’s the 18h fast that’s key so if it is say 4pm to 8am then that’s perfect!

Wibbly haha stomach migration! Love it! How satisfying!

Thank you Lucinda I am running running! We go wild swimming too and are definitely due a dance – I also vicariously enjoy gelato via feeding the husband – he let’s me choose the flavour and then he eats it! Lol!

Ritaryvita do not panic – I plateaued for like 12 days from mid week 2 and then lost 2 kilos in week 4. Hang tight!

Delicious dinner tonight simple plate of marinated fishes and then some rabbit – rabbit is just 150 calls per 100 grams and delicious! With massive salad and a wee slurp of white wine and still under 800 cals chuffed!! With love from Umbrino in le marche .

Ps Lucinda – I lost 7kg in 6 weeks so you can totally do it. Drink like crazy, do the fasting , watch the fruit ….

OneToWatch you can do so this! You sound like you’re in a strong place and you so have the ultimate goal so near in your sight so that bit of gelato that will take a few minutes to scoff isn’t even worth another thought. Ignore that inner chatter – blank it out when you walk past those shops. You got this !!!

DutchJames – know what you mean re snacks at work. I did have a good clean out of the kitchen and it’s defo easier if there nothing in the house !!

Today’s been good but I know I’m not to be trusted yet in social eating – I can’t say no – but I will be able to soon – it’s all in the journey.

Hope everyone has a good day tomorrow!

Just read this about why we may be experiencing thirst, and other side effects.

http://keystoketosis.com/the-4-ketosis-symptoms-you-should-be-looking-for/

Are we supposed to be in ketosis? I guess v. Low carb it’ll happen? Not sure how my breath is, am going to be a bit self conscious today!

Still fasting, though nearly ate when getting daughter’s omelette ready. No loss again today, on scales anyway, but less overhang on jeans. Realise I had too many calories yesterday, so am going to fill up on salad not cream and sausages today!

Hope you all have a great day. Xx

Well, after TWO days of 970 calories and 40 g of carbs or less, I’ve lost 4 lbs.
My fasting blood glucose has gone from 8.2 to 6.2.
This works.
Have a lovely day everyone 😊

Mona x

Nice work Dutch!

That’s amazing DutchJamesy! Way to go!

Thank you all. I’m still fighting food demons every hour on the hour but have to do this for my health 💪🏻

I could murder a cold beer. However was fortunately brought up to the old pilot’s maxim “24 hours bottle to throttle” (i.e. yesterday’s booze buggers today’s performance) and have some complicated work to do tomorrow which is steeling my resistance. From the never ending phone today that support is likely to be available for some time to come…Oh well more for the pension fund.

So what else can I do to speed the downward slope to a slim and elegant objective for the potential surgeon’s knife (as well as an excuse for a nifty new wardrobe and a chance to ditch “Blouses crafted by Omar the Tentmaker”)?

Can’t run, can bike a bit, what about this 16:8 lark? I don’t mind ditching breakfast for brunch and having “high tea” instead of dinner. I see some of you more experienced BSDs do it. Does the eating within an 8 hour window really help?

It worked for me. It still is working for me more than a year later. Regarding exercise, I was so obese when I started that I couldn’t walk around the block without resting halfway through, so I did what little walking I was capable of every day and supplemented with very simple, low-intensity resistance band exercises alternated with a 10 minute chair aerobics routine. I look back now on how I struggled in the early days to stand up and sit down 10 times in a row and I don’t recognize myself.

DutchJamesy, lean on your magnificent results to propel your forward. You’re still detoxing from carbs so you’re basically going through the DTs right now. Try as much as possible not to dwell on foods you can’t eat. If you find yourself pining for something, fight back. Remember that those foods are literal poison to your body and have been working for years on a long-term plan to dismember and murder you, in that order.

Thanks for that Esnecca. Did you find the diet window really accelerated loss?

I can walk, just not very fast and on bad days with a stick – arthritis in joints – so I am using bike to get outdoor exercise as less impact on joints than running, also doubt my AF heart would be keen let alone the dodgy lung…Nice thing about the bike is that any slope too steep to ride up (most of them) is a wonderful excuse for a nice restful coast downwards (with a few happy cries of “Whee!” like a kid). Some people measure their improvement by the kilometre or mile – I measure mine by how many telegraph poles I can pass before I have to stop! Like the idea of chair aerobics…I will look them up on the net. The trouble with yoga these days is getting back up off the floor. It can only be a good thing to have less weight for my dodgy bits and pieces to support.

It’s hard to say, wibbly. I have no real means of comparison because I did 16:8 almost from the beginning. I’ve never been much of a breakfast person so it just suited me. Also, in the first 8 weeks I had big losses (except for week four when I plateaued) probably because I was starting out with so much excess weight. The rate decreased over time as I had less fat to burn and got closer to goal. I’ve adjusted the fasting window, mostly shrinking it, several times when weight loss stalled. Eventually I started to lose again, but I have no idea if it made a difference or was just a coincidence.

The only time I can say for a fact that fasting had an immediate and significant impact on weight loss is when I did an extended water-only fast. I’ve done two fasts that lasted from 5PM Wednesday to 2 or 3PM Saturday. I lost 6.5 pounds the first time, 6 pounds the second. It was a rush better than any high I’ve ever had, legal or otherwise.

@esnecca thank you for your advice.
Personifying those evil foods certainly will help (made me laugh too hehe).

I’ve ended on 850 calories today and 44g carbs.
Three days down, 53 to go 👍🏼

No breakfast yesterday, bit hungry but had water and got busy.

‘naked burger’ for lunch with undressed rocket salad. Made myself eat salad first, plus about 1/3 avocado. Couldn’t finish burger. Dinner 8 hours later, 7 almonds and a spinach/courgette/pomegranate/avocado dressed salad with tuna. Again, ate salad first, too full to eat all tuna. Piece 85% chocolate. Nearly cracked when rest of family had new potato with butter, but held on. All done by 8.30pm.

Water, water, water, water. Lots of loo trips.

Just under 1,000 calls about 26g carbs.

10,000 steps.

Not tired after eating at all. Not hungry after lunch for hours.

Down 400g this morning. 😀👍 after no loss last 2 days.

Esnecca – long fasts – I am very impressed but doubt my willpower could equal yours. Only time I have managed to starve was in hospital where the food smelled and looked so disgusting that I couldn’t eat it. Unfortunately at that time I weighed 9st 3 and came out just on 7 stone – a friend who had survived a Japanese prisoner of war camp visited me and observed “I’ve seen better legs on a moorhen”. These days the legs are a tad elephantine.

Anyway day 1 of 16:8 today.

Jackie, that’s some seriously healthy low-carb food. 👌🏼
Well done for resisting those potatoes!

Thankyou DutchJamesy how was your day?

Another 400g down today. Weird day yesterday. Decided to see how long I could fast for. Turns out I could last til 4pm (partly no chance to eat before then) but then I did eat, nuts, ham, mozerella, salad plus some cream in coffee (to mark an end as I felt I could just keep on eating) but felt very unsettled for rest of day. Chicken thighs and a bit of broccoli at 8pm and then 3 (3!) pieces 85% chocolate.

Am pretty sure this was a poor choice of food to eat after so long not eating. Although fasting itself was OK (so much water) I think I would plan better next time. Or just not do it again.

No energy for evening walk either.

I have quite twitchy limbs right now. Is that a standard thing?

I haven’t experienced limb twitching during fasts, just the occasional dizzy spell, which, to be honest, I rather enjoy. It’s like a mini-buzz. I don’t drink or do any other substance, so it’s kind of treat to get a few seconds worth of a high. I walk in the morning and have experienced increased energy for them during my long fasts. I did get very draggy once, but it was 90F outside so it would have been hard not to.

Maybe you’re taking on the more ambitious tasks a little early in the process, Jackie. I didn’t do a longer fast than 16:8 until well after my first eight weeks. My first fast to extend past 48 hours (which is apparently something of a watershed point after which insulin and BG levels crater to virtually nil) was at the end of June, so 10 months after I started the BSD. I have a very different relationship to hunger now than I did in the early days. I can wave it away with a mental flick of the wrist. It’s very empowering, but it took a long time to get to this point.

Hi Jackie,

I’m now on day 5.
So far I’ve lost 5 lbs and this morning my fasting blood sugar was 5.2. That’s from 8.2 on Monday!

Had an odd hungry day yesterday and ended on 1230 ca and 54 carbs. Mmmm…
I don’t feel that hungry so far thus morning.

Have a great day everyone!

Hi there

DutchJamie – Wow! 5.2,is more or less normal range isn’t it? That’s awesome

Esnecca – you make a fair point that I was a bit ambitious! I may have exaggerated the limb twitching, more a buzzy feeling in legs and hands. I’ve just started hormone patches so it’s probably that.

The notion of getting slightly high from fasting made me laugh, it’s definitely a plus point!

I don’t have much to lose in the grand scheme of things and I am doing it more for blood sugar levels than weight (though need the weight loss for the blood sugar levels if you see what I mean – I’m not T2 yet, but need to take it in hand). I had a day finding time for food would be hard so I thought I’d give it a go, but the appointment overran so it was longer than I meant it to be. Next time I’ll plan it better.

Is there any food you’d recommend coming out of a fast? I don’t think almonds were the thing but all I could grab between appointments!

5.2 is pretty good isn’t it 😊
I’m expecting it to fluctuate but Professor Taylor (Newcastle Diet) did find with his trial that most people’s FBG were in the normal range after 3 days. He also states that you should celebrate the feelings of hunger as it means your body is now ‘eating’ the fat round te liver, which will improve your metabolic function and diabetes.
Easier said than done of course but the notion that this is a ‘treatment’ is helping me get through this. 👍🏼

Jackie, I usually break my fasts with full meals. Both of my extended fasts ended in high style with filet mignon, butter-basted to a perfect crust, with a side of sauteed spinach and garlic and cauliflower mashed with sour cream and chives. I understand you were on the go so a proper dinner wasn’t an option for you this time, but next time definitely plan for it and if you won’t be home make a portable meal, not just a random assortment of snacks. Your canned tuna with vinegar could work, either eaten as is or in a lettuce cup. I’d make it more elaborate than that even, adding hard boiled egg, roasted zucchini, bell peppers, fresh herbs and a proper Dijon vinaigrette for the lettuce.

Hi Esnecca, cheers for that, your food sounds delicious!

High fat day today, but still low carbs. Well, by past standards anyway! Carbs through greens only today. Oh and 85% chocolate!

Hope everyone else had a good day too xx

DutchJamie just read your post. Embrace the hunger because itemas your body is working. Makes sense to me. My friend at school always used to say that too, on her teenage diets. Used to envy her the ability, but totally get it now.

Also, I see the fat I have put on and the cravings I had before the BSD as a symptom of the underlying issues rather than just something that happened because I was weak willed or whatever. So don’t need to beat myself up about it, just need to fix it. So, like you, it’s a treatment that’s fixing me.

Jackie, absolutely. It’s a symptom of metabolic misfunction and hopefully this diet will reset.

I ended on 994 cal and 26 carbs yesterday.
Started Monday. Six and a half pound off so far…
FBG this am was 5.8.

It’s all good!!!
Have a lovely day today x

Mona x