Hi
I recently talked to my doctor about this diet and he is kind of shaking his head towards the idea of me starting it. I was thinking of starting the diet anyway but I am currently taking metformin and medication for blood pressure. I am not sure if I should stop or limit the amount of medication I have as I don’t want to speak to me doctor knowing he would not want to advise me doing this diet.
What’s the best thing to do?
First of all welcome MO14, great you’ve chosen to take control of your health and we’ll do all we can to help.
I can’t advise on diabetes but I was on medication for blood pressure, statins and daily aspirin. I stopped them all because of the side-effects, and the discovery that aspirin was toxic. I now know that all of the medication was treating symptoms and whilst the cause remained nothing would change, and probably worsen.
Your BP will drop with the low carb diet so be aware of that and modify your medication to prepare for it. Have a look at the thread Take a Look at This which has a ton of useful links to books, articles and videos which will help broaden your understanding of this way of eating.
I don’t know what country you are in but in the UK there’s a system of paying GP’s by activity which incentivises prescribing so the GP is not neutral in considering your healthcare.
Your body, your choices are paramount, stick with us and we’ll help you achieve your personal targets.
Maggie
Hi MO14, first of all welcome to the BSD forum. It is good that you want to take control of your own health. Traditionally doctors have been telling diabetics to eat starchy carbs with every meal and have starchy snacks. Although the message has not got out to the general medical population there is a sea of change away from this advice. Our diet of high fat (good fats) and low carb is going to be rolled out to diabetics by GP surgeries but it is going to take some time.
Medication – it would be helpful to know the doses of meds you are on and what your BG numbers are at the moment. First of all (as a diabetic) I would suggest that you leave it as it is. Follow the diet strictly and keep a careful eye on your blood sugars, do you have a monitor. If you see your Blood Glucose numbers start to fall then in the weeks to come you can start to reduce your medication bit by bit. If you dont have a monitor, get to know the symptoms of low BG and know your own body. I would not stop the blood pressure meds unless you have adverse symptoms like feeling faint, going dizzy when you stand up and so on – please Google symptoms of low bp. However, these can also be symptoms of low blood sugar and this is more likely. When I started this diet my BG was 190 and within 2 weeks I was down to 120 and 3 weeks 90 and I nearly freaked out and was really scared. Get to know your own body. I use insulin so was reducing it very slowly but I was also taking Glycazide and this is know to give rapid lows so that it what I cut down on. Metformin apparently doesn’t have a big effect on BG so you can reduce it safely if your numbers are going down. Just take care and take it slow. If you stick with it you will be able to get rid of the medication but dont be in a big hurry.
hi my husband also got no support from dr, said it was a fad diet, week 5 doing well some scary moments but so much support received on the forums – thanks folks …guess what came from our surgery today ..an invitation for my husband to have therapeutic review at the surgery for his type 2 sponsored by takeda uk … I think they are a drug company .. anyone else being/had this. what should he expect ? we think pushing more drugs any insight helpful thanks again
Hi MarxistFood – Takeda are the largest Pharma company in Asia and metformin is amongst their products.
I’d decline the invitation on the grounds that my healthcare should be in the hands of a health professional not a marketing pitch.
Maggie
Marxistfood and Maggie…I know very little about the NHS, but it’s disturbing to hear that anyone is being
pressured by an alliance with big pharma and GP’s. There is a link on “Take A Look at This” thread that
might be a useful podcast to search for, Marxistfood. Knowledge is power, and all that!
Allie
Allie, I’m absolutely shocked that any GP would subject a patient to the skilled sales tactics of Pharma. I’d change my GP as it’s clear as day that money is the driving force.
Maggie
Me too, Maggie! I think that it is nothing short of tragic that our countries aren’t producing more new Doc’s
with a dedication to preventative medicine. Just think of the effect that would have on reducing costs for
insurance co.s as well as patients! That flies in the face of “profits” though, doesn’t it? I think the biggest
impediment in my country, and why our “food pyramid” is so out of date, is the influence of the grain lobbies
and sugar lobbies on our legislators. Absolutely a conflict of interest when these multi national firms contribute
to political campaigns. Rather obscene, when you think about it! Keep up the good fight, one case at a time.
We may be small in number, but we can have a BIG voice 🙂
Allie, it’s the same everywhere. The problem is that the media are scared to cover it in case they lose advertising revenue – so where it is covered it’s given the slant of a ‘fad diet’.
Well, it is taking hold; we can buy carb free noodles, courgetti are quite usual and restaurants generally don’t use sauces on meat.
Yesterday Aseem Malhotra met Tom Watson, deputy leader of the opposition, who has lost 94lbs on the Pioppi diet which got some media coverage.
It’s a slow business, not helped by the refusal of GP’s to open their minds, but bit by bit it will happen.
Maggie
closer look at the invitation your appointment will be with ; Kunal Patel pharmacist from Interface Clinical Services the letter also right at the bottom says .. a service to medicine ,funded by Takeda uk ltd a pharmaceutical company
hubbie decided to go to hear what they offer/advise etc !!
My GP was very supportive – it was the grouchy diabetic nurse who was extremely close-minded and negative; I just ignored her and stopped taking metformin; she got even grouchier when my blood sugar came down – the GP used to send congratulatory emails, but not a word of encouragement / “well done” or “that’s interesting” from the grouchy DN.
Hopefully she’s drowned in her metformin by now.
our Doctor actually waved his hand in dismissal and diabetic *specialist * nurse was still stuck in (incorrect) diet advice onward and downward so to speak thanks all
Seriously MarxistFood, your practice is proposing to share your OH’s medical history with a commercial company? He’ll probably come home with a pen and a notepad and some metformin and insulin.
Actually it’s worse, your GP is treating your husband as a commodity.
Interface Clinical Services Helps GP Practice to Identify and Monitor High …
https://www.businesswire.com › home › I…
Marsh Medical Practice, a member of East Lincolnshire CCG, has added over 500 patients to their QOF clinical register”
The Quality and Outcomes Framework (QOF) is a voluntary annual reward and incentive programme for all GP surgeries in England
There is NO chance he won’t come home with a sackful of medication and your GP will be pocketing a bonus. That’s why he wouldn’t support him.
Is it possible for you to transfer to another doctor, who’d be more helpful?
Hi squidge
I wouldn’t know where to start on looking for a new doctor plus how would I know if any doctors are good enough to support this programme.
Hi MaggieBath
I am also living in the UK but I have never heard of this system, could you elaborate it for me please.
GP surgeries are incentivised in various ways, I don’t pretend to know the detail, but you’ll see the per patient incentive on each point http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-workforce/primary-care-contacts/general-medical-services/quality-and-outcomes-framework/changes-to-qof-2018-19
Maggie
So accompanying Husband to the “therapeutic review” appointment – Tuesday Morning will report back afterwards !
Look forward to it !!!
Yeah Marxist, and dont let him be bullied into anything and push the BSD line
ok off I go with hubbie to the surgery to see th Pharmacist clinical consultation (sponsoree by a drug company) Well some twists and turns ! He very affable and open and accepting that low carbs diet for diabetics are good – although not really heard of the Dr Michael Mosley programme. congratulated on weight loss exercise etc, told him that had stopped glimaz. and had reduced metformin (gradually by half) leaving one in the morning one in the evening. He thought shouldn’t have done that until a blood test was back to within normal parameters He had taken a blood test as we arrived and had to wait 10 mins for the results but he said 45 was what my husband should be working towards before stopping medication AND THE RESULT WAS 42 yes Bloo#y 42. The phamarcist was beaming and said I think you can stop taking your meds many congratulations ! so 7 weeks ago my husband reading was a terrifying 92 today despite it being called a fad diet by one of the gp’s he has had this amazing result………………….wait for it……..2hrs later call from Pharmacist saying Doctor thinks should continue taking I metf. morning and evening for next 2-3 months until they can do another blood test to ensure that “it hasn’t reverted” please please folks offer any advice/info feels like the Doctors won’t accept what is in front of them YES realise still have to continue with home monitor and3/6 monthly checks and of course a good diet.but if he continues with the drugs for the next 2/3 months and his level is good all that seems to prove is that his levels are still assisted by drugs. We running scared AGAIN but remain overjoyed Help again please thanks
MarxistFood that sounds like an amazing result and the pharmacist certainly thought so. I’m not diabetic so have no experience of the medication but it sounds like your GP is in denial or trying to save face.
Someone with an informed opinion will doubtless be along soon, but the consultation was with a diabetes specialist- most doctors aren’t- so two views, and I know which one I’d go with.
Congratulations to you both.
Maggie
Marxistfood that is a great result. I have reversed my diabetes so know where you are coming from and how wonderful it feels to just be in ‘control’. In defence of GPs I think your doctor is only being responsible. It’s only seven weeks and this is a lifetime way of eating and it could be only too easy to think ….. ok, I’ve beaten diabetes, am drug free, so the odd ‘treat’ won’t do any harm! Now I’m not saying that would happen but …. metformin only reduces blood sugar by around 10% so it’s not really a ‘wonder’ drug which is why, with time, most people are prescribed more and more medication just to stand still.
So again, congratulations, but maybe be a little patient and just humour the doctor for another few months. After all continuing with the diet and getting it a little more ingrained into everyday life won’t do any harm and nor will the metformin in the short term. Best of luck!
That’s marvelous, Marxistfood! I guess your doctor is being cautious but even so, I’d be interested to hear what others with T2 think. You know this WOE works that’s for sure! Many congratulations to you both!
Kazzee
Hi Marxistfood
You and your hubby do right to remain overjoyed – that is a great result!
Please don’t run scared because the BSD is clearly working for your hubby and it will continue to work for him as long, as you say, you both continue to do what you’ve been doing. Btw, well done you, too!
When I was diagnosed Type II last August I was prescribed Metformin (4 a day) and I was in a quandary about whether I should take it or not. (I’ve often experienced gastro-intestinal side effects with medication and having read about Metformin, wasn’t keen!).
I found it tricky because I didn’t want to take the Metformin, but I also knew I was now going to have an on-going relationship with my GP/GP practice – (hardly ever saw them before this) – and needed to think about that.
I also think Verano makes some very fair and valid points that are worth thinking about.
In the end, I decided not to take the medication – they’d delayed prescribing it and I’d started monitoring my bgls at home and could see the diet was working – my bgls were steadily coming down – and continued to come down. But I then had to manage the conversation with my diabetic nurse at my next Hba1c review meeting. (I’ve never seen my GP since my first diagnosis).
As sunshine-girl says earlier, Metformin doesn’t have a big effect on blood glucose so your hubby can reduce it safely on his own if his bgl numbers are going down as long as he does it slowly. He could cut it down by 1 maybe, monitor his bgls and if they continue to drop cut out the 2nd tablet. Or go back to GP at this point. It’s only your hubby who can decide in the end.
I’d say help your hubby get past any irritation about what’s happened and then rely on his own instincts about which way is the best way forward for him.
In the end, it’s all great news for him – whichever way he gets there, it’s clear he is going to get there, and that’s fantastic.
Marie xx
Of course, your GP sounds a bit of an arse to me talking about fad diets and is also responsible for your hubby getting 2 contradictory messages – which is completely unhelpful!!
WoW ! Im in Australia and feel the same frustration. Its like they dont want to acknowledge something is really happening without their control!!! MY Doc wanted to give me meds in the interim between diagnosis and me requesting referral to endocrinologist (who had by coincidence at the same time) been recommended by a fiend who had been told cut the carbs and BSL’s will take care if themselves. I said NTY because . . . THAT will give a false reading of what is REALLY happening. After having ticks of approval by SEVERAL people (dieticians included I might add!!!) – I am 4 weeks into the 8-Week programme – have halved my before meals readings – (most times and they are ALL now in single digits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) – and at least 1+ stone (over 6 kgs) – GONE!!!!! Whilst encouraged by most – my methods seem frowned upon by the ones who SHOULD be paying attention!!! Its almost like a fateacomplie (? spelling) that I will need drugs to correct this – and attitude ” its just a matter of time till she accepts the fact and quits with the stalling tactics”. Im making this change in my own . . no-one running good-cop/bad cop at the medico appointments . . . some of which feel like Ive gone onto a battle field and need to justify my requests for investigation . . . I so want to shout at them . . “Well if YOURE RIGHT and IM WRONG . . . how come THIS IS HAPPENING. PLEASE EXPLAIN or let me complete my investigations . . . with your assistance of referrals AND support PLEASE!!! Good folks here supporting my quest are making my trek SP MUCH easier. It is my spleen venting blackboard! I DO SO TOTALLY UNDERSTAND!!!
Hi Maggie! My Diabetes advisors – (yes two . . , one 6 years ago and one recent . . .) and a Diabetes Nurse! . . . well . . . lets just say nice ladies . . . but NOT ONE picked up on ANYTHING in my diet which was suspect or hurtful to me. Not even when I questioned them about specific meals and reading combos!!!!!!!!! Home made beef/chicken/ham bone soups and veges – bolstered with dried soup mixes, crispbreads with tomato and cheese lunches, and good oldfashioned rolled oats for breakfast. ALL BLOWING MY BS readings OUT OF THE WATER. I suffered SO BADLY with three different tablets – I HAD TO HAVE – then refused to take – and was offered – no – TOLD – insulin injections were the only alternative. Cut and dried. But for a friend of my son’s mentioned what HIS Endocrinologist had suggested just a few months ago – “cut the carbs and the BSL will take care of themselves” – God knows where Id be. I have discarded well over 6kgs when last checked – but seems way more now . . . and halving before meal readings . . . all now on single digits. . . I want to go back and educate them all with FACTS not just assumations by medical texts. Surely there has been info cross their desks . . . its readily available ANYWHERE it seems . . and lets face it DOCTOR Mosely is one of their own . . .:) And I sincerely THANK HIM, along with one specialist medico who gave me the impression I WAS ON THE RIGHT TRACK – my son’s friend and all those here who are here to offer advice, encouragement and their own personal experiences, which SO HELP us to know we arent alone. Just a small band of fortunate people who have heard the word . . .that there (just might be) – is another way to investigate and maybe make things better.
Almost a mirror story Marie! With two days of beginning – to me – “experiments” – with three different well-known meds IN SUCCESSION . . . I suffered severely – I mean badly – physically, mentally, emotionally and threatened with “well . . . if you cant take them then . . . there is no other way it has to be insulin injections.” I was referred to a Diabetic Nurse, then a Diabetic advisor, podiatrist etc.. After a suggestion from my optometrist I asked for a referral to an Endorinologist – because I have no deterioration/variations in sight/vision – or sign of diabetes in my eyes. Digging in my heels I asked for referral – and in the meantime, miraculously heard via a long grapevine of this way of eating. Simplified by a convert via HIS Endocrinologists advice . . . cut the carbs and BSL’s will take care of themselves. I chanced on the book in a charity shop the same day I heard the quote. I had nothing to lose, but a lot to gain. And signposts leading the way! 4 weeks in I have plateaued . . . like hitting a wall . . . the elation has gone . . . Im feel like I arrived somewhere . . . just not sure where but with support here reassuring me this too will pass . . . Im doing my best to . . . take a breath and feel joy in seeing my daffodils bloom . . . Next week will be different 🙂 Look at where I was 4 weeks ago . . . This is better than that! One hour at a time right now 🙂
Reassuring to read your info . . . Thank you for it. Instead of the DRASTIC reactions I suffered to that and two other well-known “pills” Ive reduced MY BSL’s by way more than 10% via my own readings. The 90 day test will be interesting but IM trying not to STRESS myself about it. Im finding stress of ANY kind can effect my readings – even just getting somewhere by a certain time . . . or am I doing this right. I know Ill do better because I’M recognising the signs. Are you able to give me any info re eating times please. Im 70+ usually a night owl . . . and after 9-10 hours rise for the day. That may mean breakfast at 10, lunch 2-3 and supper/dinner 7-8. Thats if I do three meals. Many days it seems 3 are too much. Like today Ive been distracted here and cooking stirfry to take with me today for my overnight stay with family so II can continue with MY FOOD!!!) – scrambled eggs with cheese were at almost midday. So around 3-4 Im expecting to be peckish so is it better to eat one of my meals . . . and make that dinner . . . or snack – piece of citrus, HB egg, natural cashews . . . cos by the time 6-7 comes then thats at the BG (so-called) two hour peak – when Id be adding more food for the body to deal with. Hope that makes sense to someone!!! 🙂 (Other than me that is!) – Advance thanks for viewpoint, insight/advice 🙂
WoodDuckie – I would be inclined to make that into a meal so that your body had longer without food. I got off the insulin with 3 meals a day and 20g carbs. But am still so very insulin resistant. So am finding that intermittent fasting (or restricted time eating as it is sometimes called) is helping my body to reduce the high amount of insulin it is producing which is making me so very insulin resistant. So I either way in an 8 hour window and fast for 16 hours or I do 18/6 or 20/4. This works really well for me as it gives my body longer with lower blood sugars.
I was prescribed insulin and advised to have up to 70g of starchy carbs with every meal – totally bonkers advice which made me even more insulin resistant and increased the damage caused to my body significantly. Absolutely a recipe for a catastrophic outcome. Which it was. Not only was it really bad for me it was really bad for the NHS. £600 eye injections every six weeks and the likelihood of eventually needing a foot amputation is a huge expense for the NHS. Sorry – rant over.
Thank goodness for MM and this forum.
Hi WoodDuckie,
Congratulations on the great weight loss and bringing your blood sugar levels down on your own. Isn’t it fantastic that the BSD can do that for us. Hurray! And it sounds to me like you’re doing everything right xx
Yes, our experiences are similar in relation to our health care teams. In my experience, you do have to find your own way with the whole diabetes thing – and you’re doing fantastically well at that – honestly, I hope you are proud of yourself!
To be fair, with NHS staff and GP practice staff here, some of the services have been great. I’ve had free eye and feet checks, I’ve attended a diabetes education programme some of which was very helpful; the fact that I can access a dietician is good. But, of course, the advice for Type II diabetics given to me by the dietitian and on the education course was the standard advice, which turns out to be wrong for us, and even worse, at the GP’s, on first diagnosis the practice nurse I saw (who is one of two practice nurses assigned to do the diabetes patient reviews) gave me some really bad, completely outdated, advice. I switched to seeing the other practice nurse. I’ve only seen her once but she does seem better.
Like you, I used a home blood glucose monitor (still do) – I used one from about 3 weeks in, and by then, my bgls had already dropped into single figures, too. (I found they can go up and down a bit – there was a 2 week period where mine went slightly up again – not uncommon – but generally the trend is downward). So again, it seems to me you’re getting it absolutely right.
I know it’s difficult, but try not to stress too much about your 90 day results – like I say it sounds from your daily bgls that everything is going in the right direction. Will you be able to see your 90 day results before your GP? appointment. One of the things that helped me was getting my 3 month hba1c test results before my review appointment (in many parts of UK you can sign up to access your medical records/test results online). It just gave me time to see how I’d done, work out any questions, and decide what I wanted to do next, before the meeting. It really helped with my T2D reviews but also more recently in deciding what to do about some high cholesterol results.
In terms of eating, like Krysia, I did 800 cals and <20g carbs. I don’t know if you have to go that low on carbs, I went straight in at <20g because that was the number I’d heard bandied about most on diabetes.co.uk and by some people on here. But I know there are other people with T2D who have been successful on higher carb numbers.
I started with three meals a day, but eventually I reduced it to two. I skipped breakfast and ate around 12-1pm and then at about 6pm – 7pm. That worked for me most of the time (there was a few times when I was very hungry so I’d have a little bit of yoghurt on an evening and once or twice I had the same or a small cube of cheese at bed time).
However, I do think this is where everyone is different. My bgls came down both while I was eating 3 meals and while I was eating 2 meals a day. What’s most important is that you are feeling OK and that you develop a way of eating which is sustainable for you long-term. It’s a step at a time really.
You do right to look back at what you’ve achieved over the last 4 weeks – keep that in mind. You’re doing brilliantly.
Marie
xx
ed – wow, didn’t realise how long this post is but hope it helps!!
Reassuring and gratefully received Thank you so much!! This week I seem to have over bought my delicious food! Freezer is stacked . . . and more choices than usual. This is all happening for me in our mid-winter when normally we eat to keep warm! Im eatng salad some days and dropping kilos with some days two meals! AND NO SNACKS!!! Quantities required are also lessening and Im positive when warmer weather comes two meals a day is going to be more than ample. I never could handle heat, and eating doesnt seem a pleasure on steamy or dry summer energy sapping days. Tonight was gingered pork strips with celery, bokchoy a huge mushroom and shallots. (Made enough for lunch tomrrow!) A little Greek yoghurt with strawberry and passionfruited rhubarb in a treasured antique tiny jam dish topped that! . . . Lunch was baby spinach, cubed cold turkey, two pieces of sundried tomato – one small chunk of feta tossed with some of feta oil dressing. Breakfast had been one egg – (used to be two) – scrambled with curry powder and cheese melted on top. Tomorrow breakfast may well be bacon and mushrooms . . .lunch the leftover stirfry . . . and dinner . . .? the cold dryroasted piece of beef might be sliced and steamed with some broccoli and capsicum. Any suggestions of problems there . . . please?
wow! Thank you for such a personal sharing. I have no sign of eye damage . . . foot problems, blood pressure managed well – though the possibility according to a blood test – (though which hasnt been/ wasnt mentioned to me – rather found in a referral letter to an Endo! – Kidney Disease!!) One doc asked for a specimen and when results were back said well your kidneys are fine. Now worry there. So Im in the dark for now on that one. Im doing my best to drink more water . . . and will close the gaps between eating . . . taking note of the longer fasting times more closely now thank you.