Caroni – I agree with Verano that your post is a wonderful summary. For me the bit that stands out is “And the authors acknowledge that since diets were measured only at the start of the trial and six years later, dietary patterns could have changed over the subsequent 19 years” . So – the results are pure fiction rather than fact.

The BBC says “After following the group for an average of 25 years, researchers found that those who got 50-55% of their energy from carbohydrates (the moderate carb group and in line with UK dietary guidelines) had a slightly lower risk of death compared with the low and high-carb groups.”. I think the operative word here is they had a “slightly” lower risk of death compared with the low and high carb groups. So they hadn’t a clue for the 19 years whether people really followed a low carb or not. I researchers seem to be prone to this sort of fiction.

I do also have to take issue with the words in the report – they had a slightly lower risk of death. Surely the risk of death is 100%. Don’t they mean a slightly lower risk of premature death. Sorry for being so pedantic. Am doing admin and it is “doing my head in”. Am off for a doggie walk to clear my head.

Glad the link works. I’m not very good at reading between the lines with these ‘official’ type of reports so was interested to see what you all made of it! Allie, I look forward to your comments also! 😁

My take on this, is that the best known early low carb diet which was Atkins, and which has since been acknowledged to have some serious potential flaws depending on just how seriously you took the ‘unlimited protein/fat’ part of the diet, is the one that will have been followed at that point by anyone who responded to that part of the questionnaire.
New Atkins, BSD, and the modern Keto diets all advocate moderate amounts of protein and a quantity of healthy fats (while allowing meat, butter, cream and cheese in reasonable quantities) such as avocado/nuts/coconut oil.
For what it is worth, I stuck to 50g carbs while on the 800 calories, and have upped that proportionately to just over 100g since beginning maintenance without serious weight gain (Although when my summer holidays finally finish I am planning in a ‘back to basics 800 for 8 week’s’ period to address some unwanted extra fat percentage that did appear at the end of summer term when a lot of extra white stuff ‘treats’ crept in).

Hmmmm…so I read the summary and the info presented… I have some serious doubts about the study although I would say it overall supports the BSD recommendations and it also supports the low carb hypothesis (despite the take-away of the media).
To begin with, this is a notoriously poor way to do a study — “self-reporting” is extremely uncertain and is skewed by poor memory and a desire to present a story that places the reporter in a good light. In other words, people report things that they think make them LOOK good, not what they really did.
Secondly, as an American who lives in California, I do not agree that the reporting “areas” are representative of most people either in the US or anywhere. North Carolina and Mississippi are poor and have notoriously bad food cultures. Minnesota is far north and has fresh food issues and a culture of fat intake and Maryland is a tiny state also with pockets of extreme poverty and bad food culture.
Thirdly, the study itself states that the lowest carbohydrate cohort were “young males with high BMI’s, who had LOW exercise rates, who smoked and were diabetic”. So that skews it right there.
Then, they blithely dismiss the PURE study that found high carbohydrate intake was associated with increased risk of mortality. AND they use words like “could” all the time — so it is so undefinitive.
Here’s the good BSD takeaway though — they say that low carbohydrate intake with a reasonable intake of the carbs THAT ARE EATEN coming from plants has the LOWEST overall mortality (so they even contradict themselves).
MY takeaway from this is to just stay on course — low carb is good, eating olive oil and avocado and coconut are good, eat good quality meat (grass fed and fish), eat nuts and exercise regularly, butter and cream and cheese in moderation. Eat your greens and your veg and skip the sugars in all forms.
I bet ANYTHING that we all eat better now than we used to. And by the way, they did nothing about investigating sugar intake and insulin levels!!

Wow Californiagirl – absolutely brilliant and insightful comments on the study. You obviously looked at this study in depth. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Aseem to the rescue.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TZomZEPBdbM

Have ‘borrowed’ this from diabetes.co.uk. I think it is the right link.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly4b-0ATbsw.
Hopefully this is it.

Yes it is definitely it – Dr Aseem Malhotra defending low carb eating.

Another link I have ‘borrowed ‘ from diabetes.co.uk which rips apart the study.
Very interesting reading.
https://cluelessdoctors.com/2018/08/17/when-bad-science-can-harm-you/comment-page-1/#comment-72144

Apologies for posting the wrong link to the Dr Malhotra interview initially. My daughter and family had just arrived for the weekend and I was rushing to post it.

KrsyiaD
Many thanks for that. Reading the critique it makes me wonder at the Lancet – with so many inconsistencies in the study – particularly the removal from the study of those with high carb diets who developed diabetes, etc – publishing it. Did the editorial team, I wonder, actually go into the study in any depth?
Mike

Michael – I don’t think they can have gone into the study in any depth. Also, I think it must be common practice to remove people who have side effects from trials so that the removal of people who developed diabetes from the trial wouldn’t have caused them to raise an eyebrow.

When I put a a yellow card in to the UK Government website to register the side effects of statins it actually said on the site that more people were experiencing side effects now than they had on the trials and that this was because the pharmaceutical company had pre screened the trial participants and anyone who experienced severe side effects could not participate in the trial. So their side effects were not recorded. Of course those annoying people have to be removed otherwise they won’t get the right outcome from the trial! I just feel that the current system is broken. How can this be morally right.

Yes thank you Krysia. I am both reassured by this closer analysis and also quite angry – with the Lancet and particularly with Dr Alison Tedsome of Public Health UK. Unless the BBC misquoted her, I fear she has compounded the problem with her swift and unconsidered reaction to this report. Shocking. Any chance of a retraction …..?

I did find one positive in this. Looking at the Facebook comments on the BBC report, I was struck by all the unfamiliar names of people who have benefited from a low-carb diet, and reversed or prevented Type 2. Sometimes our active community here feels a bit small – so it was heartwarming to see that there are a lot of us out there benefitting from this approach.

Interestingly, today’s BBC News website carries news on the worrying increase of D2 amongst children and young adults (although, TBF the total is a very small percentage of that age group – but the trend seems clear).
In reaction a DoH spokeswoman said the government had put billions into prevention and quoted that the government’s action had removed 44 million kilogrammes of sugar from soft drinks alone per annum. By my maths that works out at about a teaspoon per person per day, which doesn’t sound so encouraging.
Mike

Thanks for the links, Krysia. Aseem is my hero! 👍😁.
Yes, like, Caron, I feel quite angry at publishing garbage science and thereby derailing thousands of people to go back to refined carbs overload.

Interesting talk by a nutritionalist on eating low carb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=GcqezrpfUkM&app=desktop

Some interesting sections including tips on how to test for IR, and how to tell from looking at your skin if you are IR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBsnk2PtPeo

JGwen, I found myself violently nodding my head in agreement with all of Dr. Mason’s conclusions. This is
what I believe, too. The section on skin tags was extremely interesting. as I had great numbers of these
prior to the BSD. They seem to have dried up and fallen off since then! Excellent research, I can’t thank you
enough 🙂

And a big thanks from me also, JG. No skin tags but defo developed acne rosacea 5 years ago although it’s gone now and in only the last 3 weeks I’ve stopped putting Sudocrem on my face every night as I don’t need to anymore! I put it down to the summer and fresh air whilst gardening. Also have that discolouration top of my inner thighs. But just checked and that seems to have faded now! Wow! 👍👍

JGwen thank you for posting that presentation! How I wish ALL medicos had a copy of that to give to patients. Jut maybe we wouldnt be instantly bombarded with items of diabetic epidemics. It really isnt difficult to understand when presented as was here: Thank you SO MUCH 🙂

Have been re-reading Dr Jason Fung – The Diabetes Code. This section is quite scary reading for me as someone who was injecting insulin. Reading it again is really keeping me on the BSD while on holiday.

I am posting this in case there is anyone (who is T2D) reading this forum who hasn’t started the BSD yet and whose doctor is considering putting them on insulin. The BSD is definitely the better option. I would add that they may need (like me) that to avoid the insulin they need to cut carbs further.
This is the extract from the book. The numbers are truly scary.
In Saskatchewan, Canada, a review of more than twelve thousand newly diagnosed diabetic patients found a “significant and graded association between mortality risk and insulin exposure level.”31 It wasn’t a trivial effect, either. The high-insulin group had a 279 percent higher risk of death compared to those that did not use insulin. Treating type 2 diabetes with insulin was not good; it was bad. Simply put, the higher the insulin dose, the higher the risk of dying. Moreover, the longer the treatment time with insulin, the greater the risk of cardiovascular disease.32 A 2011 study showed that both low and high blood glucose carried excess risk of death, again reflecting the dual toxicities of glucose and insulin. Once again, insulin use was associated with a mind-boggling 265 percent increased risk of death.33 A Cardiff University review of almost 10 percent of the U.K. population from 2004 to 2015 found that lower A1C was associated with elevated mortality risk, driven mainly by a 53 percent increased risk with the use of insulin.34 In this study, no other medication increased the risk of death. A Dutch database associated high daily insulin doses with three times the cardiovascular risk.35 In heart failure patients, insulin use is associated with more than four times the risk of death.36 Excessive insulin is toxic, particularly in a setting of type 2 diabetes, where baseline insulin is already very high. Giving more insulin will lower the blood glucose, but worsen the underlying hyperinsulinemia. Trading insulin toxicity for glucotoxicity is not beneficial.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/authors/dr-andreas-eenfeldt
Just another post about the recent blurb about the ‘dangers’ of low carb’. I found this concise and an easy read.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/all-over-media-low-carb-diets-could-shorten-life?utm_source=Diet+Doctor+newsletter&utm_campaign=5345191319-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_01_23_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_41db911777-5345191319-464541309
Not sure but I think this might just be the proper link!

YES!!!! It does work and it’s a really good précis of the ‘research’.

I’ve been away from these forums for a good while now, whilst I partake in some soul-searching to find out what I really want and why. Having seen the Lancet article though, I knew I needed to come back in the hope that it had been discussed here!

Thank you CaliforniaGirl for your take on the study, and Verano for the dietdoctor link. I’m about to embark on the BSD (again) from Monday, and hearing/seeing countless media reports about the study really had me worried. It’s a relief to have somewhere like this to come where people talk sense! 👍🏻

Don’t listen to all the rubbish, Nicki! You have friends who are “true believers” here 🙂

Allie

Interestingly there seems to be advances in being able to initiate autophagy. –
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5467270/

I looked up the chemical used in this trial, apparently our digestive system intercepts it before it can have an effect, so no option for self dosing at present. – But there have also been trials of a treatment with it in eye drops where it was very effective, so I guess it will not be long before there will be the option of skin patches or other ways of initiating autophagy.

I would bet it will not be long before the cosmetics industry jumps on the bandwagon to sell a cream to get rid of loose skin.

Howdy… I was surfing YouTube looking for a bread alternative and came across this lady, Dr Sarah Myhill… she follows paleo/keto way of eating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjwjUXxELb0

And whilst looking at her other stuff, I came across this podcast of her explaining why low carb is beneficial. She explains in layman’s terms so easy to understand, particularly if you are new to all of this… Hope you enjoy, I certainly really like her style and delivery!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjwjUXxELb0

Let me know your thoughts?
Kxx

Here’s her explanation of why she follows low carb…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upWpQDidgVE&t=180s

Excellent find Kazz. I agree, this woman makes absolute sense and her delivery is very good. Watched both the casts you posted and found both very interesting – will definitely be giving the loaf a try and might well buy her book too, if for no other reason than giving myself more choices. Thanks for posting these.

Couldn’t wait, so I went for it Kazz -ordered the PK cookbook and some ground linseed from Amazon!

Me too, Sunny, last week! The golden linseeds and her one book, Sustainable Medicine arrived this morning. The PK cookbook is due later this week. I already had organic ground flaxseed but the recipe didn’t work with it as it was quite a coarse grind. From her podcast, it looks like a very fine ground. We’re going to have to buy some lard, Sunny! Imagine! Lard! Although I may just use a bit of butter to grease the tin! Let me know how your loaf turns out!

Let us know how you get on with the Sustainable Medicine book please, Kazz. I’m thinking if the ground flax I get is a bit coarse, I’ll blitz it in my bullet a bit more. I don’t have lard either, so it will have to go on my shopping list too. Will be interested to know how you get on with the loaf too.

I will, Sunny. The first few pages that I’ve read, read very much like the way she speaks, which is easy to follow and not too technical! She certainly shoots from the hip! Will attempt the bread tonight! Good idea about re-grinding if too coarse.

Dipped back into this forum today to find the Dr.Myhill interview and found it very interesting and convincing … she’s certainly passionate about her subject. Arguments for paleo diet compelling … all sorts of health benefits…. particularly reversing dementia! I’m ready to embrace it … wholeheartedly!!! Intrigued by her daily regime … loads of meat for breakfast, more meat in the evening …. But concerns over how to broach the subject of that new approach to my diet to my vegetarian wife … I’ll look around for more evidence … and then within a couple of clicks I came across a Dr.Lim arguing why he quit a paleo ketogenic diet and switched to plant-based…. More compelling argument … though he gets slagged off in comments.
Is it any wonder that there’s so much confusion in my mind about what to follow, who to believe, how to go about it. I lurch from one enthusiasm to the next, all the time tinkering about with what I’m eating.
It’s tiring in itself…..

An interesting web site with some good links. Joanne is a low carb GP and teaches people how to live a low carb life. She learned her skills from Dr David Unwin and Dr Jen Unwin in Southport. Joanne has a web site here, http://www.fatismyfriend.co.uk/
It’s great to see that there are good GPs around.

This podcast was recommended on the Dr Fung facebook page yesterday, and I have found it very interesting. – A doctor who is into endurance sports, who has moved from carb loading, to lower carb, to exercising in ketosis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7aGnfLB-8&feature=youtu.be

I was catching up on some recorded TV programmes last night. The last episode of “Trust me I’m a doctor” was very interesting on the effects of exercise on blood sugar and fats. 30 minutes of exercise – or 6×5 minutes of “exercise snacking” – had a striking effect of reducing blood sugar and fat levels by an average 40%. So even exercise-phobes like me have no more excuses! I am now signing up to exercise snacking. Here is a link to the summary: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/ybbX1JS7xBtwcvlSsqHXSR/do-i-really-need-to-exercise-for-30-minutes-at-a-time-to-get-the-health-benefits?preview=true

Very interesting caron, thanks for posting this info. Like you I’m not great at exercising, in fact it’s something way down my list – think about it, but don’t actually do it. Anyway, this gives me some hope too, so I will look at some ‘exercise snacking’ too – thank you.

Can I ask what exercise you’ll be ‘snacking’ on, caronl? Thinking I might get the rower set up again and give that a go.

SunnyB A rowing machine sounds very impressive. I am aiming for stair climbing, squats and stretching exercises. Dr MM recommends some exercises for in the home at this link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1wBY4y9KMwy02YjVSMhTfBt/can-i-get-stronger-without-going-to-the-gym

I am just hoping for enough discipline to get this going! 5 minutes every hour is surely feasible!!

Well a rowing machine might sound impressive, but it isn’t really if it is standing on end and being used as a clothes horse most of the time! Rarely is it set up for use and so it is rarely used – hence the thought I might get it set up and use it at least occasionally for some ‘exercise snacking’. Thanks for posting that additional link, it certainly shows you don’t need to be buying any fancy equipment or attending gyms to get some meaningful exercise.

The discipline and motivation is the main issue for me too, but going to give it a go – figure anything more than I’m doing now has to be a positive. Let me know how you get on and I’ll do the say – should we start a separate thread do you think, might encourage others to take more exercise as well?

Hey Kazz – have you tried making the PK loaf yet? Have to say mine was a disaster. The ground linseed I bought was very fine, so not sure if that is the problem. I weighed both the linseed and water exactly as per instructions, but it refused to draw together as a dough and remand very dry and granular. Add a little more water to bring it together, and baked, but end result was very hard on the outside and like glue in the middle – into the food recycling bin. Second batch, decided to halve the quantities but further reduce the ‘flour’ by 5g and up the water by 5ml and to try making rolls in a muffin time instead. Result, dough still wouldn’t come together and again added more water. Again the end product was very hard on the outside and the middle gluey.

Don’t know what to do now …. suggestions? I can use the ‘flour’ in my crackers, but I was so hopeful of having some ‘bread’ and so far a big disappointment. Haven’t started to read the book yet, but flicking through it, it certainly seems to be very differently presented than I thought.

Hi Sunny. Both of my attempts at the bread have been a disaster too. I ground whole golden linseeds to a fine powder, followed the recipe to the letter. Both attempts looked just like a small brown hovis! But when I sliced it, there was a huge air pocket on the top and a gooey uncooked filling. I baked on gas mark 9 which is my oven’s hottest setting and the 2nd loaf, for 90 mins! So I will try again but thought I’d add 2 tsp of baking powder and an egg. I’ll let you know how it turns out! I’m determined to master this! I’ve only glanced through the PK book as am reading her Sustainable Medicine book first. She certainly doesn’t mince her words! She is very much on the same page as Dr Aseem Malhotra. Have another go, Sunny, with an egg and baking powder. There are also other linseed bread recipes on YouTube which seem to turn out ok. So I’m hopeful for us both!
Kazzxxx

Flash, I don’t think I could live without a bit of butter, cream or cheese which is why I prefer this LCHF way rather than paleo, although they’re not too dissimilar really.

Will take a look at other linseed bread recipes, but I was thinking of adding some baking powder and maybe pressing it into a shallow tin to make a sort of flat bread and see if that works. For sure I need to be adding more water initially, as mine has failed to come together as any kind of dough on both occasions. Might give the flat bread idea a whirl tomorrow and let you know how it goes. Keep me posted on your progress too please.

Hi Kazz – had some success with this linseed bread option – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89nhQOtMd7o It only makes enough for one sandwich, but given bread is something I rarely crave, this would be just fine for me. I found that even sticking to this recipe, my mix was still too dry – I’m sure it’s something to do with the fineness of the ground linseed I bought. Anyway, I added a little water and it worked just fine. Was very tasty and very filling too – just lovely toasted with some butter and marmite. I know some people are not keen on microwaving as a cooking method, but I don’t see why this recipe couldn’t be cooked in an oven – perhaps I’ll give that a try next time. Have you had any success with finding a recipe that works?

We’ll blow me, Sunny! I’ve just come looking for this thread to tell you I’ve cracked it today and guess what? You’ve also cracked it! It’s a microwave recipe but not yours!
I can’t find the link right now but here it is…
3 eggs beaten
2 tspn baking powder
1 tsp table salt
125g ground linseed/flaxseed very fine
1 tbsp melted coconut oil
Mix all together, makes a doughy batter and can only think it’s the warm coconut oil. Pour into a greased microwaveable dish. I’d got a loaf shaped ramekin. Micro 4 mins on medium high. Check consistency with cocktail stick. I finished mine off in a pre heated hot oven for 15 mins just to brown the top! Fabulous! Like you say, wonderful toasted, melted butter and marmite or vegemite, I have both! This bread is a game changer for me! Watch this space! Well done, to both of us!
Honestly I could do a jig! 🤩👍👍👏👏
Oh the other thing, my baking soda was 10 years out of date! But I bought some new and that’s what I used today!
Now need to work out the macros!
Kazzxxxx

SunnyB and KazzUK

Here is a low carb “bread” recipe I found and posted on one of the threads last year and use when I want a sandwich. You make the bread in a mug with straight sides in the microwave and i cut it into six thin circles and so you get three tiny but satisfying sandwiches

2tsp coconut oil
1 large egg
2 tbsp ground almonds or ground walnuts
3 tbsp ground flaxseeds
Half tsp baking powder
Generous pinch of salt
Microwave the coconut oil in a mug with straight sides for 20 to 30 seconds. Use the oil to grease the sides of the mug.
In a small bowl thoroughly mix together the egg, 2 tsp water, the nuts, ground flaxseeds, baking powder and salt.
Pour the mixture into the mug. Stir the mixture with a fork to incorporate the coconut oil, making sure the top is level.
Microwave for one minute. If the bread still appears moist microwave for another 10-20 seconds. Avoid overlooking as this will make the texture rubbery. If it is still runny at the bottom put it back in for another 10-20 seconds. Allow to cool for a few minutes then cut into slices.
I had to share this with you as it was a revelation. It is 100 calories a slice but I haven’t worked out the carb content.
This is so quick and easy to make and a nice change. I am going away on Monday so I will use this to make myself a little packet of sandwiches!

Just read your posts and hope you don’t mind me jumping in.

Cathy

Thank you Kazz and Clarinet Cathy! Im going to try this when I get home. I have LSA powder I was wondering what to do with or how I could incorporate it . . . which should work just fine. Might just add the ground walnuts or smashed almonds for a little more texture! Sounds yummy! Thank you so much xxx

Sorry not to have been around for most of this week, but thank you Kazz and CC for those recipes, I’ll certainly be giving them a try. Think like WoodDuckie, it is worth trying adding in extras for texture and to change the flavour a little. Actually, I made my recipe and added a teaspoon of maple syrup and split the mix into two small silicone moulds. I split these and added clotted cream and a little almond butter – very nice with a cup of tea.