Newbie needing advice

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  • posted by Kittenwits
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    Hi,
    I have been a Type 2 diabetic for over 60 years. In the main I have kept good health and watched my diet, but as I’ve gotten older I have found it harder to stick to a proper diet and for the last 3 years or so I have crashed off my diet and eaten all sorts of junk food and put on weight which I don’t like seeing on myself! Recently I decided enough is enough and have hauled myself back onto a better diet. I really want to be able to control my diabetes by diet alone and I’m certain I can, but I don’t want to disturb my gallbladder as I’m pretty sure I have issues there. Unfortunately I also have salicylate sensitivity which means I can’t eat heaps of the best fruit and veg that would be ideal on a low carb diet. My question is this: Would 800 calories be too low if I have gallbladder disease? I make sure I take 2 tsp of EVOO with each meal and am vegan. I am unable to exercise due to a B12 deficiency caused by PPIs! Warning – never touch them!

    Cheers and thanks for reading. 🙂

  • posted by sunshine-girl
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    Hi Kittenwits, so glad you have found this site. After 60 years with T2 I am not surprised you are fed up. I am 14 years and really get sick of the daily can I have this, should I do that, why cant I be normal like everyone else. BUT you have now found the right diet. Just before I found this 3 years ago I cried and cried. My BG was 190 and no matter what I did I couldn’t bring it down and was pushing 40 units of insulin and 90mg of Glycazides plus BP med, cholesterol med, fluid control meds and the list goes on.

    First of all the low cal should not have any effect on your gallbladder, it has only helped mine because the liver can deal better with this diet so the GB doesn’t have to pump out so much bile. Yes, we eat more fat but I bet we dont eat any more fat than someone living on pies and ready meals and we only eat good fats. I dont know about the salicylate sensitivity problem but we dont eat hardly any fruits on this diet. Yes, lots of veg but you can choose which veg you eat except the ones grown below ground and the high carb veg. Sorry but I dont know what PPIs are but I do know that B12 deficiency is common in vegans. For that you need to know where to get B12 into your diet. Not totally helpful but maybe a start as there are many knowledgeable people on this site. Good luck. At least you can get your diabetes under control.

    Just checked PPIs and they are Proton Pump Inhibitors which are used for excessive gastric reflux conditions. They are known to cause problems with Iron and B12 being able to be used by the body. The results are very much against using such methods and the problems are real. Besides that I am not much wiser.

  • posted by M2019
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    Hi Kittenwits.
    Ooh gallbladder, that brings back memories….before I had mine out, I wasnt eating much at all and it certainly didnt make anything worse. I remember it was better for me not to have long gaps without eating but it might not be the same for you.
    I agree with Sunshine Girl in that anything you do to support the liver can only help – I always suggest milk thistle liquid supplements to help with this (tastes filthy, does good work). Staying super hydrated and staying off any inflammatory foods and drinks is also helpful in general.
    I’m not a vegan but I do take a vegan B12 supplement courtesy of Amazon.
    Good luck !

  • posted by Kittenwits
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    Thanks sunshine-girl and M2019. I was wondering if it’s ok to each small meals every 2 hours on this diet as I am starving just 2 hours after breakfast. If I hadn’t eaten another small meal of mushrooms, tomato, cucumber, vegan cheese and a small vegeburger, I knew I was going to crash straight onto grabbing bread and marg! This seems to fit in with your suggestion M2019 to eat closer together rather than spaced out. I also think I’m going to have to go more for a vegan style Mediterranean diet and I might have to still take small doses of insulin, but it will still be better than what I was doing before. The Mediterranean Diet does allow bread, but only perhaps one slice a day.

  • posted by M2019
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    Hi Kittenwits,

    Its absolutely essential that you make this diet work for you because its needs to be sustainable.

    You may find practicing 16:8 fasting may help, giving your body a break and adjust to this way of eating. This is where you eat within an 8 hour window of your choosing and if you want to eat every two hours in the 8 hour window, its fine.

    I think quite a few of us spend the first couple of weeks finding out what worked for us before finding our groove as it were – personally, I am having one slice of wholemeal spelt sourdough a day with brekkie and I count it in my carb limit. Thats 22g grammes spluffed on one piece of toast and I still think its well spent as that with eggs and a cup of tea keeps me going for a long old time.

    Once I nailed finding a reliable and filling breakfast and logged everything on MFP, I started to find this a lot easier. Is Avo on toast with a splash of olive oil something you like ?

    Plenty of people will tell you to give up bread completely and it if it sends your BG la-la, then it is good idea to say goodbye – but if it doesnt and it helps you manage your appetite through the day, then it is not a fail to wedge it into your carb and calorie allowance. Definiltey worth doing your research if you are going to have bread to find the most helpful one possible – rye is very filling and can be slightly lower in carbs, I find wholemeal more filling although there isnt much difference in carbs to white or brown as examples. I make my own bread so I know whats going in it.

    You sound really motivated which is most of the battle tbh – I am sure you will find your way !

    Good luck !

  • posted by alliecat
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    Hello, kittenwits! (cute name) and welcome to the community 🙂 This style of eating is very flexible,
    and I sincerely hope that you can make it work for you. There is loads of advice from experienced
    BSDers available, so just shout out and one of us will come running! You have a complex list of
    other conditions, so please check with your gastroenterologist for medical advice. No one here
    is qualified to give it. Carbs DO drive hunger, and it is the healthy fats and fiber that keep us satiated.
    I’d give bread a big pass, unless you can find a very low carb type. I look forward to sharing your
    journey with you! We have a weeky thread, entitled ONE WEEK AT A TIME, and it’s an excellent
    place to meet a good cross section of experienced as well as motivated new members. Have a
    look…Hope to see you there! Very best wishes,

    Allie

  • posted by M2019
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    Hi Kittenwit,

    I found this article here from MM and there a couple of nice vegan suggestions that might interest you:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6563169/Fast-800-diet-lose-stone-three-weeks.html

    Although MM does not call out a carb threshold (he only refers to keeping it low), if you want to be in ketosis where the body burns fat for energy, then 50g of carbs is your maximum limit. You may have to drop to 20g to acheive ketosis but suggest you try one thing at a time. Ketosis is beneficial in lots of ways, particulalry in supressing the appetite.

    You do not have to go into ketosis to lose weight on this plan although there is strong support for it here – I am in ketosis by design (I keep my carbs at 50g per day) even with my consumption of the banned substance formally known as toast. I make my choices to meet my needs same as others remove the same them from their diet as much as possible because that meets thier needs. I agree completely with Alliecat that the less carbs you have, the less hunger you will have – but that is unlikely to be the only thing that matters to you or anyone else, especially if this is going to be sustainable. For some people (me included), mouthfeel when eating is really important which is why I couldnt do meal replacements. Its just an example – I am sure you know whats important to you.

    With the help of Alliecat etc you can build an approach that should enable you to control your BG and get some weight off. Whatever you do, has to be sustainable – if it isnt, there will be a falling off the wagon. Change your WOE to a way that works for you and there is no wagon to fall off.

  • posted by Cazza65
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    Hi All,
    I was diagnosed T2 7 years ago. Until about a year ago, I managed it with diet. Since then, I have been tried on all standard meds, but due to stomach issues, I cannot tolerate any of them. I was referred to the local clinic at the hospital, who put me on Insulin. The nurse also suggested a C-Peptide test. The insulin didn’t do much for my numbers (but I put on 7lbs in 10 days!). The results of the test showed that I have LOADS of insulin (more than double the normal) but I’m just not using it as I should. They suggested I try the BS diet.
    In the first two weeks I lost 8lbs. I have about another stone to go. I then read on this site that fasting can also be useful. For the past 3 days I have been doing 20/4 fasting (I find that easier), but my BS is going up, especially in the morning (around 8.2) – is this normal? My readings during the day are around 6.5 also. Prior to this they were slowly coming down with a couple of 4+ readings. My aim is to get them down to around 5.0-5.5 consistently – can anyone advise if this is possible?
    I don’t eat any carbs (normally < 10g) and usually don’t eat my full 800 cals – could this be the reason, am I not eating enough?
    Sorry for the barrage of questions (I don’t normally go on forums), but I’m really unsure if I’m doing things right!

    Thanks

    Carol

  • posted by sunshine-girl
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    Hi Kitty – do be careful about supplements if you are taking diabetes meds – especially milk thistle and Omega3’s – check with your doctor or at least google your meds and the supplements to check the interaction. As a diabetic I would strongly advice you to stay away from bread or any other starchy white carb (even if it is a brown or wholemeal version). You can split your meals as you like and as M says, a good breakfast will see you through. I only used to be hungry pre lunch if I had a starchy breakfast in the old days like cereal or toast. A poached egg on grilled mushrooms is good. I too need snacks to keep my BG steady so save a small portion of my lunch for an afternoon snack so if I have tuna salad I put aside a bit of tuna for later. I also need a snack before bed and have a slice of cold chicken, a boil egg or something left from dinner.

  • posted by sunshine-girl
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    Hi Cazza65, you sound like my story. When I was diagnosed I was tried on so many meds all of which had the same results – several hours a day on the toilet. My doctor then put me on insulin and I gained around 3 stone in a year – doctor said he expected that – I didn’t and being on insulin makes it almost impossible to lose weight as you are pumping yourself with ‘the fat magnet’. I am three years in with this plan and gone from 40 units daily of Lantus down to my current dose of 23 units. On and off I have lost 2 or the 3 stone excess but that varies depending on Christmas, holiday, birthdays, life… I am not sure if, following your results you are still on insulin but it is possible to get your BG numbers down and 5.0 is a good level. I tend to run at around 4.5 to 5.0 in the mornings and 4.0 to 4.5 early evening. Please dont fast, you put yourself at risk of having a hypo – know the symptoms and know your own body. The high numbers you are seeing – and yes, I will mention it again, – it is the Dawn Phenonomen – check the search engine – I have written about it many times. It is normal and your body is trying to protect you.

    Finally you say you dont normally eat any carbs – what are you eating – there are carbs in just about everything unless you are living on meat products. Check each food you eat by typing it into an app or google under ‘Name of Food Nutritional Info’ and it will tell you nett carbs and how many are fibre and how many are sugars. I think you might be miscalculating. Dont worry about asking loads of questions, there is always someone with experience of diabetes as that is what this site was originally about, so there are still plenty of diabetics who have been there, done that and got the T-shirt so to speak. I remember when I around week 3 my BG had dropped for around 7.5 to 5.0 and I thought something terrible was going to happen. No, it just meant the diet was working.
    Good luck.

  • posted by Jennie10
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    Hi Cazza65/Carol
    I’ve just noticed your post and wondered how you are getting on?

    You asked if it was possible to get your bgls down to around 5.0-5.5 consistently – yes, it definitely is, and your numbers are going the right way. Blood sugars don’t go down in a straight line so the way yours are bouncing around a bit are pretty typical. It’s certainly the way mine went. (Mine are now back in the normal range.) As sunshine-girl says, if they are higher first thing in the morning it’s usually the dawn phenomenon. But they can also go high at other times also. Mine did. But they will eventually go down – so it looks to me that you are doing things right.
    Do keep posting – ask anything you want, and let us know how you are getting on.
    Jennie xx

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