Help!

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  • posted by First timer
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    I have been doing the BSD religiously for 12 days but seem to have put on half a kg – is this possible?
    I’m 47 years old, weigh 81 kgs and and borderline pre-diabetic.

    A standard meal plan for me is :

    Breakfast : 2 hardboiled eggs 140 calories
    Lunch : Purition protein shake with almond milk 230 calories
    Afternoon : Half Purition shake with almond milk 115 calories
    Dinner : Marks & Spencers ‘Balanced for You’ chicken and courgette 233 calories
    Tea with almond milk 50 calories
    ________________
    768 calories
    I am drinking 3 liters of water, exercising (even joined the gym) and have had no alcohol.

    Any help or explanations so much appreciated. I am really disappointed after trying so hard……

  • posted by JGwen
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    Hi First timer,
    So that we can make some suggestions can you please give us some more information. Please check the packages of what you have been eating and let us know how many carbs you are eating? Also what eating plan were you on before, – were you on a calorie restricted diet?

  • posted by alliecat
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    Hi, firstimer! These results are highly unusual, and I can certainly understand your disappointment.
    I suspect the problem has to do with your macros…Can you tell us how many grams of protein and
    net carbs you are having each day?

    Allie

  • posted by First timer
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    Thanks so much for the quick responses.
    I’ve been switching between 2 different dinners but eating the same for other meals, so my entire carbs and protein for the day based on this are :
    Dinner 1
    64 grams protein
    11.3 grams carbs

    Dinner 2
    73 grams protein
    28 grams carbs

    I haven’t been on a calorie restricted diet prior to this, have generally eaten well in the past but have just been slowly putting on weight for the last 12 months – am now at 81kg. Have had thyroid checked and all OK. My HbA1C is 5.6% / 38 mmil, so I am pre-pre diabetic.

    Thanks again.

  • posted by JGwen
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    Hi First Timer, what are the macros of the shakes you have been having, how many carbs and protein?

  • posted by First timer
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    Hi,
    They have 3g carbs, 16.4g protein and 13g fat.
    Ingredients (in % order) are : why protein isolate milk, linseed, coconut, sunflower kernels, almonds, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, nutritional yeast, psyllium husk, apple pectin and stevia.

  • posted by alliecat
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    Hi again, First Timer! Protein shakes can be a little tricky, because most of them contain hidden sugars,
    and exceed the amount of protein that we require each day. Excess protein gets stored as fat, much the
    way carbs do. The BSD is a low carb, moderate protein, high (healthy) fat way of eating. On a calorie
    restricted diet, a general rule is that women need no more than 50g of protein/day, and men need no more
    than 60g. A more refined formula is 1g of protein for each kg of IDEAL body weight. I’m 5’7” and I’ve been
    living this lifestyle for just over 2 years. Even though I’ve been in maintenance for 15 months, I still rarely
    exceed 52g, even though the formula indicates that I could consume 62g a day. It’s the fat and fiber that
    help us to feel full, not extra protein. Your carb levels sound great! Perhaps if you re-access your protein
    levels, it might be the answer.
    Best of luck to you 🙂

    Allie

  • posted by First timer
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    Thanks so much. I will reassess the protein……but I still can’t believe I manage to put on weight consuming 800 calories for 12 days!

    I remember Dr Mosley said in the book that he would include recommended shake options in a later chapter , but they were never mentioned. I’ve noticed a couple of people on the forum raising this too. Does anyone have an answer? Does anyone from his company read the forum? I went for a natural one with good fats https://www.purition.co.uk versus a synthetic version, but clearly I’ve done the wrong thing.

  • posted by Squidge
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    Could you have miscalculated somehow? Eg counted the calories per 100g not the whole pack?

  • posted by alliecat
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    Don’t be so hard on yourself, First Timer. There is a learning curve for everyone when we commit to this way of
    life 🙂 It takes a while to get used to weighing and measuring everything, and pre planning is the key. I’ve been on
    the boards for a long time, and I still learn things every day! Most of us use whole foods, so that we learn what a
    healthy plate of food looks like, rather than meal replacement shakes. I hope that others who are approaching this
    the way that you are will be along to share their experience, too! Best,

    Allie

  • posted by MaggieBath
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    Hi First Timer, I’ve just checked what MM has to say about starting the diet with shakes and he says to have 600 calories from shakes and 200 from vegetables. Would that work for you? That’s how the original Newcastle diet was run.
    Maggie

  • posted by First timer
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    Thanks again for all the replies and encouragement, really appreciate it.

    I am now thinking about following more of the recipes in the book, but the first 2 days that appeal to me (week 1 Saturday and Sunday) have over 50g of protein….I’m starting to feel like I can’t win!

    * The cheesy steak and baked beans, followed by the steak with pepper sauce has 71.4g of protein in total.
    * The salmon steak, followed by the harissa chicken has 60.89g of protein in total.

    It seems that even if I follow the set meal plan, I am getting the same (too high) levels of protein as I have been with the combination of shakes / eggs / chicken……

  • posted by MaggieBath
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    I agree First Timer. I treat the recipes as a basis to work from rather than follow slavishly, mostly for flavour combinations and ideas. There are some that horrify me!
    We’re all different and need to find out what works for us. Some of us seem to be super sensitive to carbs and so on. One thing to bear in mind is that food combinations are a minefield; it’s a new area of research but studies have shown that eating carbs with protein can hugely multiply the glucose spike.
    All we can do is discover what works for us.
    Good luck, hope you manage to figure out what works for you.
    Maggie

  • posted by Verano
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    Hi First Timer with bloods of 38/5.6 you are not prediabetic. The levels for prediabetes are 42/6.2. So don’t panic too much about blood sugar .

  • posted by First timer
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    Hi,
    Thanks for your advice. I wish that were the case. My endocrinologist believes there is something to worry about, and put me on Metformin for the last 6 months. My levels haven’t gone down since being on it, so I’ve decided to try the BSD. I am also 2kg off being obese…..believe me, I wouldn’t be doing this if I didn’t have to!

  • posted by First timer
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    Hi,
    Maggie – thanks for the reply…..
    The more I look at the BSD recipes, the more I realise they are not within the ranges that Allie recommended. I’ve just looked at the egg avocado breakfast with the veg curry dinner and that’s 30g carb, before I’ve even had lunch.

    Does anyone know of a meal plan, or recipes that take into account a requirement of 20g carbs and medium protein (50g)?

    I’m fine about measuring and counting, but disappointed that I was relying on the book to help me with a menu, at least for the first couple of weeks.

    Thanks again for everyone’s input, this really is a huge help.

  • posted by MaggieBath
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    Hi First Timer – I was annoyed too. Google for keto meals/menus and maybe add some fibre. I can just live on salads, so not a lot of advice from me. TBH I just wing it !
    Maggie

  • posted by alliecat
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    Evening, First Timer! I hope that you’ve had a good day. Most of us find our own way of doing the BSD. There are no
    hard and fast rules though, apart from the basic principles of low carb, moderate protein and high healthy fat. Success
    stories are overwhelming, here. I just shared what was the most successful for me. However, I’m very insulin resistant,
    so I had to go very low carb. That surely isn’t the case for everyone. Prior to beginning this incredible journey, I had
    concerns about losing muscle mass, so I did a lot of independent research on protein requirements. I also had a bad
    previous dieting experience when I did a semi starvation diet for 5 months, at which time I began losing hair.Prior to
    the BSD I calculated the protein level I had been eating then, and it was @ 35g. Hair loss! So, I just wished to share
    my research with you, in the hope that excess protein might be the problem for you. The only thing I’m an expert on
    though, is how MY body works 🙂 Many are very happy with the recipes in the books, but I kept everything simple,
    adapted my own recipes, and calculated carbs and calories. I knew I would be in it for the long haul, a marathon
    rather than a sprint! We all have different tastes, but there a number of threads here that outline what real food
    choices we each made, depending on where we set our personal levels. We’d be happy to share menus if you think
    that might help you to envision what a typical day might look like. Very best to you,

    Allie

  • posted by First timer
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    Hi,
    Just wanted to update you…I switched from the packaged dinners, added some fat through cheese and yogurt, and have been keeping my carbs below 20g every day. Proteins I find hard to keep low – I used the Keto Calculator that advised I should be staying under 59g, which I can do but under 50 was a struggle. I always have the 3 litres of water per day, and I’ve also been using a great food content app http://www.fatsecret.co.uk that has helped in tracking. And I’ve upped the gym to 4 times a week of weight classes, cardio and yoga. I’m also reading Taubes ‘Why We Get Fat.’
    I will see this through, but after 3 weeks have only lost just under 3kgs. Everything I read says that this should be more.
    I’m not asking for encouragement, just wondering if there may be something else wrong here?
    Thanks again for any suggestions.

  • posted by JGwen
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    Hi, The rapid initial weight losses you see talked about come from water loss. – If you were dieting before starting this program then you will not have that process.

    – Have you taken a full set of measurements, and are you looking for inch loss as well as changes to the scales? For the last couple of months that has been a stage I have been going through. I dropped a dress size but only lost 1kg in weight. (Muscle is more dense than fat. A kg of muscle takes up less space than a kg of fat.)

  • posted by Squidge
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    A loss of 3kgs isn’t at all bad! I know some people do see much more rapid weight loss, but those are people who weren’t dieting prior to this. We’re all different – a more modest rate of weight loss doesn’t mean there is something wrong, just that you didn’t need to make such big reductions in the amount you eat.

  • posted by First timer
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    Thank you both – JGwen I am losing inches, but as I’m sure you understand this doesn’t come across when I go back to my doctor and he looks only at my BMI!

  • posted by JGwen
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    I completely understand. – I would like to see the scales moving myself. I get the impression that there are two routes we can take, in fact, thinking about how to explain my thoughts on this gives me an idea to research.
    But anyway, I see two patterns from different peoples reports. Those who do not exercise appear to see constant weight loss, while those who are physically active see inch change without weight loss. I think this could have something to do with growth hormone. https://www.dietdoctor.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone
    I remember someone mentioned that Megan Ramos (who works with Dr Fung) initially lost weight with fasting. Once down to her target weight as she exercised she dropped further dress sizes but put on 20kg. So maybe if you are aiming for a physically active, lower weight body it doesn’t matter if you go the low exercise, get weight down, then build up muscle increasing weight. – Or increase muscle loose inches and slow weight loss routes. Both roads lead to where you want to be in the end and its down to how you enjoy the journey.
    Its always been a flaw with the BMI system that it doesn’t take into account the nature of the body mass. – So a rugby player may be obese if just measured on weight, while a scrawny individual with a large beer belly may be a healthy weight according to the BMI chart. – Any doctor worth his salt will be used to applying common sense with regard to BMI’s. Just dress to show off your muscle / body shape rather than as if you are hiding fat. Or ask them to use one of those scales that assesses body composition.

  • posted by marie123
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    Hi First Timer
    My experience mirrors what JGwen says. I weighed myself daily and on the days I went to the gym I tended not to lose anything but on the days I didn’t go, especially if I didn’t go for a few days, I’d lose.

    I’ve heard californiagirl, who has always been very active, say that in the case of BSD and exercise less is more. May be also worth looking at some of her posts and/or doing a forum search on exercise. As JGwen says it’s a recurring issue on here.

    JGwen – fascinating post, thanks.

  • posted by First timer
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    Thanks, going to try out your gym theory. I’m now 4 weeks to the day, and on a good day, the scales say I’ve lost 3kg.

  • posted by WoodDuckie
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    Hi V! Just browsing through topics to learn more and found your post here re BSL’s. Im in week 5 . . . and before meal readings have dropped DRAMATICALLY in that time. I breathed a sigh of relief when I read not to worry too much about them . . . – (I found I DO stress if I have a little difference from test to test during the day or my EXPECTATION/ANTICIPATION isnt met!!! Given they USED to be 10-11-12-13-14 and are now 4-5-6 and the occasional only 7 – (which makes me cross!!! and I question what I did for THAT to happen . . .!!!!) – I tend to lose sight of the fact I have HALVED, and bettered what was happening 5 short weeks ago! AND . . . the fact I have now dropped below being considered diabetic to much closer to pre-diabetic – is SO encouraging!!! While having discarded a whopping 11 kgs+ along the way, such will no doubt make a HUGE difference overall. Have an endo appointment mid October, plugging away diligently to impress him as well! and praying I have turned this around sufficiently to be given MORE time before drug intervention which isnt my ideal option.

  • posted by Verano
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    Woodieduck well done on your 11kg loss, that’s great. Not worrying too much about finger prick blood tests is just my opinion, for what it’s worth. If you were using insulin you would have to test but otherwise I feel that there are so many variables that alter your BS, even stress, that finger pricking is only giving you a ‘moment in time’ measurement. The HbA1c test which measures blood sugar levels over the previous 8-12 weeks is a far better indicator. So, personally, I just finger prick occasionally just to make sure I’m within the guidelines. Marie123 posted a link to a chart that gives a guide converting finger prick tests to HbA1c levels. I haven’t read it and nor do I have the link but I’m sure somebody will come up with it for you.
    Other people do finger prick tests on quite a regular basis so it’s just a matter of choice but don’t become obsessed by the numbers. If you are eating low carb your blood sugar will be controlled and you probably won’t need medication if you stick with this way of eating. Time will tell!

  • posted by WoodDuckie
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    Thank you 🙂 And thanks for the reply. I guess I was almost paranoid about this whole mess . . . and with the H (alphabet) test skyhigh . . . I asked for time to check things out before making decisions. This request was not granted – saying I was full blown and had been for some time to have such readings. So another H (alphabet) test will no doubt be requested by the endo when I see him in October . . . Im HOPING and PRAYING the level will have reduced to such a degree that he will allow me to continue for a while longer – without drug intervention – and see where it eventually finishes up. By then I will have been on the programme approx 3-4 months – (I started 5 weeks ago . . . so another 10 before I see him = 15 weeks). And I asked myself why am I still testing 4 times a day . . . 3 = before meals and one at bedtime. My answer was because Im still expecting a spike and would like to know what ve eaten to cause it. Thing is . . . I havent had a spike for weeks. So now it maybe has become a habit . . . a confirming one every time I see a 4-5-6 appear. Oh joy when the fours arrived!!! Im not so much actually weighing/counting calories, carbs or proteins . . . Im guesstimating quantities and fining the required amounts are lessening every day . . . unless it is REALLY COLD and I tend to get a bit hungrier than Im imagining I will come Spring/Summer. Today I had a stacked mushroom cup . . . chopped tomato and leek topped with two slices of feta and grilled. Coffee. Lunch was a grilled portion of pork – (bit smaller than my hand) – died and tossed through a salad of handful of baby spinach, 2 x baby beets, a hardboiled egg, a teaspoon size piece of feta and sliced rings of leek with 1/4 tomato. Afternoon tea was coffee . . .Tonight was maybe 3/4 of a cup of ground beef tossed in garlic and butter, snowpeas, shallots and a mushroom. Coffee was finished by 8p, so will have a 12 hour fast now. How does that sound to anyone reading please . . .? Yesterday I only ate two meals breakfast and dinner . . .scrambled egg with cheese for breakfast . . . “lunch” was a snack of HB egg with cashews and coffee while watching grand-daughters athletics carnival! Dinner was a cold diced pork in a stifry vege mix. 🙂

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