Haha, Maggie! We live with a pair of siamese. Don’t underestimate their brain case! They routinely outwit
us, and are quite capable of hanging off of doorknobs and opening doors, and will not tolerate being confined
or ignored. Highly intuitive too! 🙂 🙂 🙂

So watched the first episode of ITV’s ‘The Fast Fix: Diabetes’ programme last night and I was so disappointed. I know people on here were concerned beforehand but I watched it with an open mind. It was based on the joint Newcastle/Glasgow research study (i.e. Roy Taylor’s Newcastle diet) where people are given 800 cals liquid diet for 8 weeks and I thought any publicity for a way people could put their Type II diabetes in remission would be positive. Now I have my doubts about that.

The programme was gimmicky, kept emphasising how difficult it was to stick to, how awful the ‘product’ was – it even had one of the presenters retching when she tried one of the sachets of food. How on earth is that going to encourage people to try to put their Type II diabetes in remission. No mention of alternative food-based ways of achieving the same results (including but not just BSD).

Like the BBC programme, there were some good results achieved in people’s health markers, which is always good to see, but personally I thought this was irresponsible TV reporting. Any chances tonight’s programme is better, do you think?

Marie I’m just hoping that at the end of tonight’s program they will say something on the lines of …… of course we used the liquid diet because it was easier to standardise the results BUT in fact it’s far better and more sustainable to eat 800 calories of ‘real’ food. Let’s wait and see!

Verano – I do hope so

On a more positive note, I’ve just been reading on diabetes.co.uk that approval has been given for GP’s to prescribe the diabetes.co.uk 10 week online low carb programme to people with Type II Diabetes, which is really good news. Here’s the link to the news item.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2018/jun/low-carb-program-achieves-qismet-approval-to-be-recommended-by-the-nhs-94355134.html

I did the Low Carb programme last year when it was free, but I think they’ve since introduced a charge – not sure how much. It’s a week by week self-education programme focused on low carb (can’t remember how low). David Unwin, the Southport GP who has been successfully running a low carb programme for his Type II patients (and reducing the Practice’s drugs budget!) was involved in developing the programme.

To be honest, I’d already found the BSD, this forum and the diabetes.co.uk forums which were much more powerful tools for me personally – maybe that meant I didn’t engage as much with the Low Carb programme? – but anything that becomes part of the NHS system is a great step forward and good news for everyone!!

That’s great news Marie, a real breakthrough. Should be the end of negativity in the surgery, though doubtless it will take time and pressure from patients for it to disseminate.
I’m afraid I was mega unimpressed by last night’s ITV programme; there was only one positive moment, when they were given their results.
It milked the participants humiliations; dipping into the plunge tank, topless men, you’ve got the fattiest liver; fat bloke eating a triple mac and fries. It was really exploitative – go on, cry, you’re so fat you’re going to die.
Anyone’s takeaway would be that it’s their fault for being out of control and eating uncontrollably. Why weren’t they told it wasn’t their fault they were fat, surely that’s the most important message they need to hear?
Instead they were punished by being locked away in a joyless building, far from home and made to eat disgusting food.
ITV should be ashamed of themselves. It was of no help to anyone wanting to turn their lives around because no one should limit themselves to 800 calories without medical supervision. What cr*p.
Rant over 🤯
Maggie

Yeah, I too was unimpressed with last night’s effort.
The participants are being locked away in that house so it would be so easy to serve them 800cals worth of nice healthy food.

At first I thought they were going the shake route to target the portion of the population who don’t really cook.
For them the BSD might be a bit overwhelming. However as already mentioned they didn’t really sell the shakes did they? Especially the presenter almost retching when she tried one. That put paid to any thoughts I had that any serious thought had been put into how best to get the message out.

I felt so sorry for the people in the house. We were eating Lamb Steak with Feta, mint sauce, steamed broadbeans and grilled peppers at the time. I wanted to break into the house and cook for them!!

I do find it hilarious that this and The Truth about Carbs are both presented by people from Michael Mosley’s Trust Me I’m a Doctor and they both act like low carb is the new discovery of the age!

I watched the programme last night – I usually record and watch when hubby has gone to bed. My hubby was sat at the back of the room and all he could hear was ‘well that’s a load of sh=t’ and ‘oh for gods sake what rubbish’. Never mind, we are getting there.

One thing that I don’t get.

My wife and I considered these shakes at one stage.
Yes we had already had success on the 800 but I admit we were looking for an easy fix! 🙂

They have flavours like Cookies and Cream, Cherry Bakewell, Vanilla and Banana.

At a time when you need to be retraining yourself and your eating habits they sure do reinforce the idea that sweeties are best!!

Hi All! This article on the dangers of belly fat is trending today, from the New York Times. I hope
that you will be able to access it 🙂

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/well/live/belly-fat-health-visceral-fat-waist-cancer.html

Wow, she doesn’t pull her punches does she? So it’s a start of the whole way of eating going mainstream. Good news. Let’s see who picks it up over here.
Thanks for that Allie
Maggie

Jason Fung has just posted to FB that green tea – just 1-2 cups a day cause significant weight loss, and fat loss around the waist as well as a significant reduction in the risk of stroke.
https://idmprogram.com/tea-and-diabetes/

The thing with green tea is that there is no evidence that it promotes weight loss. My logical head tells me that (a) green tea is taken without milk, (b) if you normally have several cups of tea with milk you could cut around 100 cals per day. So it is not the tea per say but what you dont put in it. And (c) it is also reported that people having a cup of tea seem to fancy something with it – hence the saying a drink is too wet without it – meaning a biscuit. Drinking green tea doesn’t have the same association with snacks as black tea with milk. Just a thought.

That’s true, if you have a biscuit then that is going to account for it. Still, I thought I’d give it a go instead of one of my delicious glasses of water. As a non tea drinker I might also find it quite exciting 😀 Or as unpalatable as any other tea!

The tea is full of antioxidants so cannot do any harm -I also love water. I stopped drinking black tea with milk when I became intolerant to dairy and, even though I dont have a problem any more, I still prefer green tea to black. However, going back to the evidence, most people think we are bonkers doing this diet and I for one have had faith for 2 years without the evidence, so whatever you try cant hurt.

I’m not a great lover of plain green tea but I have discovered a green tea with jasmine that is really lovely. If you like Earl Grey then you should like the jasmine tea if plain green tea isn’t to your taste.

Hello, All!
Maggie, the discussion about green tea reminded me that I have a bag of Matcha green tea powder
in my pantry! I just love that you are interested in trying new things and have really caught the health
and nutrition “bug” 🙂 Do you know about this “high octane” best quality green tea? I use an American
site that includes lots of information on it, as well as many other superfood powders. It’s an
education just reading the site, even if you don’t order product from it. For some strange reason
when I post a link, it just takes you to the site, but not the specific link, so you have to use the
“search box” to locate it. I use the matcha in a green smoothie that I add a lot of heart healthy
ingredients to, one of which is chlorella. I try to do a heavy metal detox twice a year, by having
these green smoothies 4-5 x week for 6 weeks. (for the liver). Chlorine in our water can be so
bad for you, not to mention what leeches out of our pots and pans! So much to learn! If you
want to follow up, the site is “nuts.com” Let me know what you think 🙂
Allie

Thanks Allie, I’ll have a look once I’ve finished in the garden. Even the dogs have filtered water – they turn their noses up at tap water 😉

Hi researchers! I love this space and I want to say “thank you” to whoever it was who recommended watching/ listening to Dr. Bikman’s podcasts — I have found them INCREDIBLY helpful — as good as Gary Taubes book “Why We Get Fat” and a fantastic understanding of mitochondria, ketones and insulin.
I highly recommend them — excellent for long drives because you won’t want to stop listening.

Hi Californiagirl,
I am glad you are enjoying them. He has a facebook group and does post links to new research that he finds interesting, chips in with answers to some peoples questions as well as letting people know about new online interviews and videos of presentations he makes. I find it quite a useful addition.

This podcast by Jason Fung as well as the common coverage, it fills in a lot of the little side elements, on cravings, and insulin resistance, and feeling full. I think it will also help any T2 trying to explain to medical people why they want to follow this WoE rather than taking insulin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXGxoNFag4

JGwen – that is a lovely little podcast. I used to calculate carbs and insulin injections so carefully but my T2D just kept getting worse and worse. This does explain why that was the case and it is good to be reminded why this WOE works for me and how important it is to keep BS low so I never have to inject again.

ITV’s the fast fix. It was good that they set out clearly just how dangerous T2D is and how it is reversible. The worse bit was that they never once mentioned the importance of cutting down on the bad carbohydrates.

Hi KrysiaD,
I saw a podcast by Dr Fung recently, which may have been this one, in which he mentioned how important it is to him to ensure that the information is out there in a free, or low cost way to help people heal themselves and how it boosts him to receive letters of thanks from people who have turned their lives around. – I was wondering if we shouldn’t track down an address that we could send a thank you letters to Dr MM.

I love this poem, it may be very reliant to many on this journey.
https://www.facebook.com/RoxieHeslop/posts/10160871725575221

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/975646/health-advice-news-stop-taking-prescription-drugs-heart-disease-prevention
Aseem Malhotra encouraging us to challenge our doctors and ditch the prescription drugs. He has very strong words to say about healthy eating guidelines.

Brilliant JGwen. We all need a little more self-love. Thanks 🤗

Thanks Maggie an interesting article that fly’s in the face of current thinking. I’ve just read the Pioppi Diet, by the same author, and found it fascinating. It is basically a Mediterranean low carb diet but without the counting of calories and carbs, and fasting for 24hrs, dinner to dinner, on around day six of seven each week.

JGwen – what a lovely idea to send thank you letters to Dr MM. Am relaxing on the sofa of a lovely pub/restaurant opposite to where I work. Am on my second cup of coffee and tsp of cream as I relax before I go back to work. Will listen to the poem later.

MaggieBath – have bookmarked the article as it is so good.

JGwen and Maggie – thanks for the links xx

Verano I’ve got the Pioppi diet waiting to be read. Since adopting this way of eating I’ve almost completely stopped watching television apart from informative videos. My brain is working so much harder!

Enjoy it Maggie. I really like the style of writing, informative but not couched in too much pseudo scientific babble.

Dr Malhotra has posted a picture of himself and Sara Cox – she’s following the Pioppi diet. His FB page is worth following, he’s really nipping at the heels of the health establishment.

Thanks for that Maggie. I shall check out FB!

Article about recent study on time restricted feeding by Krista Varaday (U of Chicago , was in MM original 5:2 BBC doc) confiming that restricting eating to 8 hrs a day resulted in an average weight loss of 3% of body weight (or about 6lbs for a 200 lb person) over 12 weeks….or about 1/2 lb a week.

She found that with restricted feeding, participants ate 350 calories a day fewer even though they were allowed to eat as they wished.
She also found far fewer subjects dropped out of the study as compared to alternate day fasting. No surprise there.

So for those feeling hungry, having a condensed loading of meals may help.

LTC

Link to the article : https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180618113038.htm

Highly entertaining – David Diamond – Demonization and Deception in Cholesterol Research (YouTube). Did you know Ancel Keys was an economist with a second degree in oceanography and he imposed his unproved ideas on a nation. But scary too.

Very helpful talk explaining the protocols used in Dr Fungs clinic on deciding what fasting program is appropriate for clients.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY3cHwOyCmw&app=desktop

Thank you, JGwen! I found this most interesting, apart from the nervous laughter and dry coughing 🙂
As we discussed, I haven’t mastered extended fasting YET, beyond 17 hours, so learning about the
patient populations for whom it is recommended was very informative. Have you come across the
term “refeeding syndrome” in any of your research? The topic of HGH (human growth hormone)
was only briefly mentioned, so more research required, by me! It may be the answer to “loose skin”?
I LOVE this presently very active thread, so thanks to all contributors. I’m behind in my reading, but
many thanks to Verano for creating a thread that contains it all 🙂

Allie

https://idmprogram.com/refeeding-syndromes-fasting-20/ From Jason Fung’s website.
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/
It’s all there 🙂
Maggie

You’re an angel, Maggie! Thank you 🙂 🙂 🙂

Allie

I’ve just been reading the blog on the site that Maggie posted for me….This is a fantastic resource!
Great article there entitled “the Failure of the Calorie Theory of Obesity”. We often see new members
to the community that still think in terms of calories in, calories out. Rather than attempt to refute
this theory myself, I shall be posting this link in the future 🙂 Great site, Maggie!!!! Thanks so much!

My pleasure Allie 😁
I’ve subscribed to the site for a couple of months (one month free) to explore what I can take from it. In the Facebook group there’s a lot of competitive fasting with some very male posturing!
Maggie

Hi Alliecat,
I know you are keen on your calculation on protein levels to aim for, so you may find this talk helpful https://youtu.be/z3fO5aTD6JU – Its by Dr Bikman its about the relative impact of protein depending on what makes up the rest of the diet.

You’ve DONE IT again, JGwen…Getting me to use the left side of my brain 🙂 🙂 🙂 Very interesting,
although I’ll probably have to listen to this you tube presentation at least twice to absorb it all! If
you captured it all in one round, I’m going to have you nominated for the Pulitzer prize in Science…
I’m definitely searching back through this thread to find your earlier post on Dr. Bickman, though!
Thanks for posting the link! My email program is not being co-operative today, but I’ll respond to
your email when I get it beaten into submission! Coming soon 🙂

Hi Alliecat, I am just passing on the breadcrumbs I come across in my own search for the answers. – Not doing anything special other than wanting to learn.

You mentioned about dealing with loose skin. This is an area of research which is quite new, so a lot of the answers I have found are just educated guesses at present, rather than firm advice.
They know that autophagy is a process controlled by hormone levels, not insulin this time, but mTor. One of the controls of mTor is the availability of amino acids (protein) in the diet. – So to keep it simple, the body creates new cells from the protein in the diet, if it can not obtain the resources it needs from the diet it scavenges for the materials to build new cells from old cells. How long do you have to go without eating protein to enter autophagy? Guestimates by the experts range from 12 hours upwards, and it appears that exercise may decrease this, but people are not sure. They do know that as soon as you eat protein you drop out of autophagy.
The researcher who was awarded the Nobel prize for work in this area recommends a fasting mimicking diet for 5 days at a time where you have 800 calories a day, 400 from complex carbs, and 400 from healthy fats and nuts. Obviously if you eat this diet you would have some protein, because he suggests having nuts which are not zero protein.
A different researcher who seems to be highly respected gives this interesting talk about protein including a section on mTor and autophagy. https://idmprogram.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/
I have gone round and round in circles on this one. Most days I tend to eat 20:4 simply because it works best for my normal day, and if the guestimates on when autophagy kicks in are true that means that I will not hit the maximum levels (supposedly at 36 hours) but will benefit from some level. On my last shopping trip I also bought ingredients so I could try having a few days in a row when my diet is mainly veg and nuts to shake things up a bit. –

Morning, everyone! JGwen I, meant “Nobel” prize, not “Pulitzer”! Sigh…What a dunce! Only 6:30am
here, but I shall return after I mainline some coffee 🙂

Hello all,
I thought I’d point out that MM is interviewed on this podcast. It’s mainly about the ‘gut brain’ stuff hes into these days but he does talk about type 2 and weight loss. And coincidentally he talks about his first documentary ‘Ulcer Wars’ which was po-poed at the time, but the guy on it went on to win the Nobel prize for medicine!

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-michael-mosley/9867346

This podcast is worth listening too anyway I have to say. (Off topic as its not food/diet/health based!)
I’m not Australian, I live in London, but my Aussie wife got me into it because of the quality of the interviews. They have a fascinating array of guests and subjects and the interviews are in dept and intelligent.

Best,
Marty

Thanks Marty, I knew he was in Oz. I’ve read Clever Guts and it’s amazing stuff.
This link to the Diet Doctor’s site is all about intermittent fasting, and the fascinating part is the immense damage we’ve done to our bodies by grazing and how painlessly we can work at incremental gains to make a real difference https://www.dietdoctor.com/intermittent-fasting/time-restricted-eating

For Allie and JGwen especially 🙂
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/06/27/autophagy-health-benefits.aspx?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=facebookmercola_lead&utm_campaign=20180627_autophagy-health-benefits

Great article, Maggie! I’ve bookmarked it to print and save. I’m very familiar with Dr. Mercola, and remember a you tube
interview of his with Jason Fung that I viewed a while back. Thank you so much! By the way, if any of you stumble
over the pronunciation of autophagy, it’s “au-toph’-a-gy 🙂 🙂 🙂 ( a throwback to a decade of time that I spent in the
medical profession many years ago)

Wishing you all a great day!

Allie

This might be worth noting, as we’re well into the salad season…This surprised me! A medium cucumber, peeled,
is 2.9g carbs and 24cal. Unpeeled, it is 9.4g carb and 45cal. Who knew?

allie, the cucumber peel is an excellent source of fibre so it goes through you rather than sitting on your hips. By the way, who eats a whole cucumber.