I’m a veteran of 5:2. I did it once with great success until something came along and blew it for me. It’s taken 3 years and many, many, many attempts but I’ve finally got a month under my belt again and I’m feeling confident.

Now I’d like to take advantage of the strong start of the BSD diet but I’ve got a lot of apprehensions. For one thing I’m totally addicted to carbs. Can’t manage my cravings if I have *any* at all. Secondly, I’m a compulsive eater with an enormous appetite. I can’t stop eating even “good” foods and I’d better have a full belly or I’m going to go for the “bad” foods. Thirdly, the way I got competent at 5:2 was I didn’t have to weigh or measure or stop eating until I felt full and satisfied. Finally, I’ll eat all sorts of foods and be experimental but I’m not sure that’s gonna continue to be true if I have to eat things like kale on a continuing basis for 8 weeks.

I’ve looked through the recipes and I can’t say there was anything there I’d be excited about cooking or eating and there are many things that would trip my cravings.

Is there any hope for me? How should I approach this?

I read your post and thought a lot of similarities with me before I embarked on this journey. I had no ‘off button’, no ‘brakes’ could just eat and eat and eat and a lot of it was bread, pasta, potatoes and rice.

However before I started I read the BSD book recipes and the recipe book and ticked every meal I fancied. Which was a lot. Cheese, Eggs, Meat, Fresh and Cooked Veg, Curries, Dahls. A little Dark Chocolate. Yoghurt and Fruit. My first meal was the fry up brunch from the recipe book. Really nothing you fancy?

I guess I can’t tell you how to approach this, My approach was don’t miss what I can’t eat, enjoy what I can. Clear the cupboards of all the naughty stuff. Plan a week’s meals. The measuring isn’t onerous you just need a set of scales and measuring spoons and stick to the recipes the calorie counts aren’t that far out.

One of the points of the strong start is to ‘break’ the craving cycle. A reset if you will. The cravings won’t (and didn’t for me) last forever.

And if you really need some encouragement… I’ve been successfully maintaining since I started in Jan. 3 stone + lost. Borderline hypertension sorted within the first week. Less tired, fitter and happier than ever…

Get your head right the rest will follow…

The drive to eat comes with eating a high carb diet, you are not giving your body the nutrition it needs. As you change to low carbs you will not need to eat as much.

I think the key is to spend some time thinking about your WHY. You have to have a reason that you want to discard weight or recover health / fitmess which means more to your than eating. When you have a good WHY, you will be able to overcome the carb cravings, then it gets simpler. – Another way is to start off by counting carbs, and not calories, after a bit of time your carb cravings will reduce an you can then start to control the calories.

“However before I started I read the BSD book recipes and the recipe book and ticked every meal I fancied. Which was a lot. Cheese, Eggs, Meat, Fresh and Cooked Veg, Curries, Dahls. A little Dark Chocolate. Yoghurt and Fruit. My first meal was the fry up brunch from the recipe book. Really nothing you fancy?”

Thank you for the input and encouragement, freester.

I don’t have the book. I’ve just been looking at recipes online. Of the foods you list I couldn’t eat cheese, chocolate, yogurt or fruit. Any one of those would trigger my cravings. That leaves eggs and meat, which are good but I’m afraid about half of the vegetables I’m most fond of butt up on the no-no limits too like winter squashes, carrots, peas and corn and more. Oh and I think garbanzo beans (chick peas/cecii), canellni and black beans are my present mainstays too but they rank high on the carbo load lists.

I’m just terrified 800 calories won’t allow me to eat a volume of food that satisfies and then I won’t be able to stick to the plan.

Thanks for those thoughts of easing in, JGwen.

How do you go about counting carbs? What would be the limit I should aim for? If I do that I could continue eating a volume of well chosen appropriate foods? That sounds more doable for me.

I would suggest that you start off by cutting out the “big white” flour, pastry, bread, pizza, pasta , sugar., potato and also cut out the fruit. Spend a couple of weeks getting used to that routine.

Then install the app fatsecret on your mobile phone.(or use on its website) Start off with the aim of 50g of carbs per day. – Enter all you plan to eat that day and see what the carb intake is.

After a couple of weeks then go lower to 20g. – At 20g you are certain that your body will have low enough insulin levels to force it to burn fat for fuel. – If you have been eating high carbs for a long time its likely that you are Insulin Resistant and even at 50g of carbs your insulin levels will be too high for your body to be in fat burning mode.

Once you are in fat burning mode the craving for carbs reduces as your body has unlimited fuel available in the form of body fat.

OK. You’ve convinced me. I set up a spreadsheet to monitor my calorie and carb intake.

I’ve been doing 5:2 for a month and I’ve already cut out all the sugar and grain-based carbs. All of them, even the whole grain carbs. …tho there’s no denying they were a way of life for me for nearly 70 years.

I’ll start cutting down to 50gm of carbs and work to 20. I’ll look for the app you recommended. I’ll see what I can do.

Thanks for the help getting started.

I am one meal away from having successfully done a day of limited calories and carb grams. I feel confident saying that because the salad with dressing, tomato and hard boiled eggs I had for lunch kept me going just fine until an hour and a half from dinner. I’ll have some lean roast beef with a couple tablespoons of gravy and a cup of ratatouille when dinnertime arrives and I’m certain that will keep me feeling fine until bedtime. I never wake up wanting breakfast so I expect to be happy enough to make it to lunch tomorrow.

I managed to get in all my exercise just fine.

I’d call it a successful day even if I didn’t manage 800 calories or 20 gm of carbs. And that touches on my one concern or curiosity. I know any estimate of what I’ve consumed will only be an approximation and that the actual numbers are far less important than moving toward my goal of weight loss and a healthier life. But I used 2 methods for recording my intake and they came up with very different assessments.

One was my own spreadsheet and nutrition data from Calorie King. The other was input at Fat Secret. Calorie King says I consumed 667 calories and 31.6 gm of carbs. Fat Secret records the same foods in the same amounts as 929 calories and 32.2 gm of carbs. Well, maybe the carb count isn’t all that different but there’s a 28% difference in the number of calories. Not sure what to make of that.

Another thing I wonder is if I can still do 5:2 fasting when doing the 800BSD. I’m fine with my fasting days. I tolerate them very well doing them consecutively and having only iced tea (unsweetened). Do I continue to do them and then do 800BSD on my food days?

Happy for any experienced advice available!

Well, I first read your post and felt for you, the obvious anxiety around being hungry and not full enough…. then you said this:

“the salad with dressing, tomato and hard boiled eggs I had for lunch kept me going just fine until an hour and a half from dinner. I’ll have some lean roast beef with a couple tablespoons of gravy and a cup of ratatouille when dinnertime arrives and I’m certain that will keep me feeling fine until bedtime. I never wake up wanting breakfast so I expect to be happy enough to make it to lunch tomorrow.”

If you can make this your new routine you are totally nailing it!! Well done!!
Missing breakfast is great – keeps your eating window to approx 12:00-20:00 and therefore you hitting the 16-8 Time restricted eating; you are getting good nutrients from your meals without the carbs, you are getting good proteins and fats….and as you noted you are feeling full. Mix up the salads and the meats and the veggies to suit your preferences and keep it interesting but you are pretty much there!! Give it 2 weeks then have a good reflection session and see how you feel, draw the positives and note your progress!!
If you ‘enjoy fasting’ then consider doing one meal a day or similar to mix it up but I would find a routine doing what you’re doing first.

I too am an “eat til I’m full” sort of person…… my best advice is finish your meal, get up and do something…… once you move you will realise you are fuller than you thought.
Good luck – keep it up and keep us posted!
Julz

Thanks for the encouragement!

I had garbanzo beans on my salad for my second day and had lots more hunger. I guess this is an opportunity to see what foods agree with me best and plan more effectively over time.

I also listened to a video that said that it’s “net carbs” I should be concerned with. If that’s true I’m more encouraged that I can work my way down to a 20 net carb intake. The video was made by Dr. Dan Maggs. I find him most clear and informative. Also very entertaining in the way he presents material.

I do exercise. I do a stationary bike routine in the morning and treadmill in the afternoon. I also do some Pilates Reformer work. I tend to do my exercise when I get feelings of hunger to distract myself. I don’t exercise in the evening. I’m working off 400-450 calories a day.

I want to do this. I really do. I’m trying. I’m logging my food and my exercise. But the best I’ve been able to do is about 950 calories and 20-25 net carbs per day.

I have a large salad with protein at lunch and that’s the bulk of my calories meaning I’m having less volume of food for dinner than I wish.

I haven’t been able to fast on my fast days either.

Hi Rainey, I like Dr Bikmans explanation about carbs and fasting.

If you are keeping your carbs down around the 20 to 25 g of carbs level each day you are keeping your body in the fasted state. – In other words you are keeping your insulin levels low enough that your body is operating in the same method as it would be if you were fasting. It can access your fat stores to make up for any calorie shortfall in eaten v burnt. Its just that the amount of calories it needs to take from your fat stores is less than it would be if you were fasting.

Keep doing this and your mixture of gut bacteria will change, the number of bacteria which depend on sugar will reduce. Its those bacteria which can tell your brain that they have no food and make you feel hungry.

You are on the right path, just keep putting one foot in front of the other and you will get there. – It took you years to put the weight on and the only person saying you must loose weight at x number of pounds per week is yourself.

Thanks for that information, JGwen.

I TOTALLY want to change the balance in my gut biome. That’s why I was so disappointed to find out that Dr. Mosley’s new gut app isn’t available in the US. I take a probiotic every day but do you know how much prebiotic I should be supplying in my diet?

I’d also be grateful if you had a link to Dr. Bikman.

Thanks again.

Dr Bikman has talked at different low carb events, and the podcasts for this talks can be found if you google him.

He and his team are just setting up a new website. At present you can join the premium service for free. There have been a number of podcasts on different topics put up on the website . http://www.insuliniq.com/

I did better today at 800 calories and I kept my macro nutrients within the goal percentages.

Once again I had 2/3 or more of the nutrients for the day and probably 75% of the volume of my food at lunch. Maybe that’s not a problem but I’m accustomed to having my big meal at dinner and all the allowance I had left was a burger and a slice of tomato with a bit of mayo on the tomato. Still, I think if I’m going to be living on salad + protein for lunch it’s better to have enough of it in the portion of the day when I’m going to be active.

My salad today held me to dinner. In fact, my husband had to remind me that I should probably be making dinner because there was no hunger to prompt me. And I won’t go to bed hungry. I don’t have *nearly* as much hunger anymore and I registered “moderate” ketosis on a pee stick.

I think I can do this. But I’m spending a tremendous amount of time logging food and exercise and balancing out the nutrition. Who knew there was going to be so much math!!! Subtracting pounds is fun enough but figuring net carbs and which foods produce which ratios of fat/carbs/protein is a tad overwhelming. I’ll have to cheer myself when I subtract those pounds on Wednesdays!

Rainey – I think you’re doing great! I agree that it does take up a lot of time at the beginning logging things. Maybe if you think about it being for just 8-12 weeks to begin with it might help – by the time you get to the end of 2 or 3 months there’ll be so many meals you’ll know the cals/carbs of off pat you won’t need to measure anywhere near as much.

My only other tip is just to make sure it’s sustainable for you and your lifestyle – it’s got to be stickable-to – if you find you’re too hungry in the evenings I’d be tempted to switch your lunch & dinner ‘allowance’ around.
But like I said, it seems to me you’re doing great.

Jennie xx

Glad to hear the “stick-to-it-able” part because last night I simply couldn’t sleep (I’ve read that’s a side effect of early ketosis). I was really hungry to add to the misery of insomnia so I had a couple handfuls of almonds and then a hunk of leftover pork chop. I know I could have fought harder to get past it but I was tired and I was cranky and I just wanted my stomach to settle down. …at least it was all protein and fat.

One of the great things I’ve learned about Dr. M’s dieting approaches is that I actually *can* return to them after a slip up. That’s never been true for me before on any other kind of diet.

I also know that when my gut gets a healthier biome I’ll have that working for me. How long do you think that takes?

Hi again Rainey,
Yes I was just the same. I remember a few times when I was so hungry last thing at night I thought it would stop me sleeping so I would have a few spoons of natural yoghurt or a few nuts. I think if you’re keeping to the 800 cals/low carb generally then going over now and again isn’t going to ruin anything.

About getting a healthier biome, to be honest I don’t know. I have got the Clever Guts book but I have to confess I haven’t read it yet – oops. But, you’ve prompted me and I’ve now pulled it off our bookshelves. I will read it, promise!

What I do know is that I followed the BSD 800 (I aimed for 800 cals/20 -ish carbs like yourself) and it resolved or improved a raft of my health issues including my T2 diabetes, IBS type symptoms, fatty liver, insulin levels, cholesterol, arthritic pain, BP etc. So I’d be amazed if it didn’t also improve the gut biome.
Jennie xx

I am truly sorry to be on here all the time with questions and looking for reassurance but I’m just so new to it.

I’m trying to balance out today. After lunch I had eaten about 450 calories and that balanced out at about 9% carbs, 48% protein and 43% fat. For dinner I planned 4 ounces of steak and a cup of ratatouille. That was going to leave me high on the protein side and low in fats. If I add 2 tablespoons of truffle oil I would not only really enjoy that steak but I’d balance out at 9% carbs, 40% protein and 51% fat but my calories for the day would be over 1000.

So my question is, would it be better to skip the truffle oil and be closer to 800 calories but have macronutrients out of balance or go for the balance and exceed the calories?

Thanks for the advice!

You are focusing on the assumption that what you eat is the only fuel source available to your body. Change your mindset and percentages are not longer relevant.

Focus on grams of carb to make sure you are in ketosis.

Then eat protein at the appropriate level for your target body weight. – Between 0.6 to 0.8 g per kilo of target weight for a woman, between 0.8 and 1 g per kilo for a man.

Then fluctuate your fat intake depending on your aims, want to burn fat, then any excess of calories burnt against eaten will come from your body fat. – If you don’t want to shed any more weight increase the number of calories from fat.

So I don’t need to do that 5%-10% calories from carbs, 30%-35% calories from protein, 55%-60% calories from fat balancing thing at all? I’d save a ton of time every day!!!

No you don’t have to do percentages. They will not work when you have discarded the fat and move on to maintaining anyway.

I’m NOT anywhere *close* to maintaining!!! I’ve got about 50 pounds to lose from my 5’1″ frame!

I *must* be in ketosis.

I had shopping to do today so I was out and running around until after lunch. By the time I got home it was around 1:30 or 2:00. I wasn’t hungry so I just skipped lunch. No breakfast and no lunch and no hunger. That’s gotta be ketosis!

It’s 4:30 now and I guess I could eat dinner in a few hours but I’m still not hungry.

This is SO much easier than all that food logging!

Today is the day I weigh myself. I’m pleased to report that I’m down 3.4 pounds and that my BMI is down .7.

I’m keeping up my exercise regimen. I still haven’t seen a change in my body in the pictures I’ve been taking once a week for 5 weeks now. OTOH, I can feel a real increase in my strength. Getting up from a chair is a simple smooth movement I don’t have to grunt my way through and call on arm strength for.

Another week and another weigh in. This one, no so good. I gained 1.2 pounds. And my BMI crept up .2.

It was a week when I was struggling to stay on my program all week long. Most of it was minor violations and Life getting in the way of my time to work out, but yesterday was a major food freakout. Today, however, I’ve nearly completed the first of my 2 consecutive fast days and I did a full exercise regimen. So I think I’m back on track with 5:2. I’m going to try harder at BSD which doesn’t come nearly as easily to me.

I also got a couple nifty new toys. The first is a FitBit tracker. I don’t know that it changes my activity in any way but it keeps track of it and makes it very visible and allows me to track the time I spend in Fat Burning, Cardio or Peak output levels. And it’s making apparent that I get lousy sleep. 4-5 hours a night and I’ve only managed to get above a Fair rating one night. I’ll discuss that with my doctor. But who knows what can be done about all the bathroom breaks I need and getting back to sleep after each one…

The other thing I got was a tech-ed up digital scale that measures everything but my declining IQ. Not the least surprisingly, it tells me I’m fat. I’m on the very high end of High body fat. And I’m also High in visceral fat (not even sure what that is or how it’s different from body fat but now I know I’ve got an abundance of it). OTOH, my Body Age was measured at 74 and, since I’ll *be* 74 in March, I guess that’s pretty good. Maybe I can make it better but I suspect that will have to be a very long range goal.

So, onward and upward (or downward) to a better week.

Hi Rainey
Good going that your body age matches your age !👩👩
Not sleeping well and then getting back to sleep can be a bane for me. I’ve stopped drinking tea in the evenings, and try to stop my water drinking a couple of hours before bed, to lessen the getting up at night. Sometimes helps.
Michael Mosley mentions visceral fat here: https://thefast800.com/how-to-lose-belly-fat/
Keep going – you are doing well!
Do you read the Weekly Thread? – maybe jump on there. A new one starts every Tues (UK time). This week’s is https://thebloodsugardiet.com/forums/topic/one-week-at-a-time-beginning-october-6th-2020/
🌺🌺🌺🌺

Hi again Rainey. Wendy (wendleg) wrote this after her first year on this way of eating. She lists lots of good things she learned along the way. I find it inspiring to re-read it every now and then to remind myself of my WHYS.
https://thebloodsugardiet.com/forums/topic/success-stories/#post-117307

Thanks for the tips and the link.

I’ll look for a weekly thread. How do you recognize one?

Just click on the link in the first of my messages. Read thru the posts of how everyone is going – and post your own if you like.
Next week Wendy post the link to the new week – it’ll be something like One Week at a Time beginning October 13th.🍓🍓

awww thanks Merry !
Rainey …stop procrastinating 😉 and come and join us on the weekly thread…presently
One Week at a time beginning October 6th
and as Merry says there is a new thread every week.
You will be made to feel very welcome and you won’t regret it . You seem to be “getting your head around’ this way of eating !
Wendy x

It’s my weigh-in day again. I lost 5 pounds which I believe really needs to be averaged out over 2 weeks because last week I gained a pound. …or did I really?

I’m still coming up to speed with my new highly digital scale and the results were mostly up this time but that’s probably errors from last week. Anyway, where I am will become apparent once I get good at what I’m doing and establish a pattern. Plus, I got a physical last week and discovered I’m an inch shorter than I believed I was so my BMI went up as well. I’m just going to consider this week my new benchmark.

So all that said my results were:
• Weight: 162.4
• BMI: 31.7
• Body Fat: 45.6%
• Visceral Fat: 13
• Body Age: 78

Oh, and I had 3 days of diarrhea and some pretty strong stomach cramps which I attribute to ketosis. It’s over now I’m relieved to say and I had a Covid test today. I was never unable to complete my exercise program. My temperatures were all normal and my oxygen was good so, at this point I’m pretty clear it was ketosis-related. …but in the time of Covid it was NOT a reassuring thing! When I get the results of my swab I’ll be able to face the world again. ; >

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