Ha well, there is a few of us posting on this thread so I don’t think we can be referred to as « no one » 😉
I would still love a link to the podcast you listened to, always looking to expend and look beyond my current understanding.

Hi Louise, it’s Biohackers Lab “Best Diet for Insulin Resistance” with Dr Bikman -/ there are a couple to choose from so just google it — also excellent info on why protein intake should be kept high (and why not to worry about protein and neo-glucogenesis on a low carb diet)

Oh my, I just read a book over the wkd that said the opposite 🙈 it is called Fat for Fuel
How is one supposed to decide which doctor/research to trust 😱

Okay, think I’m out of this thread.

Californiagirl – found the tone of that post of yours from 22:27 both aggressive and insulting; it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. Think I’ll head somewhere more supportive.

This is one of the links to Dr Bikmans podcast on the subject of the difference between the impact of protein on a low carb against high carb diet.

https://www.biohackerslab.com/ep42-dr-benjamin-bikman/

Perhaps we are comparing apples and pears. – Dr Fung frequently talks about the background of his patients. He is in an area with low income, often from a cultural heritage where high carb is normal. So for his patients, fasting is the easiest option and he is focused on reversing the health damage for very obese people who are sick and who are not able to exercise. Dr Fung doesn’t comment on the ideal diet on feasting days. Many on the facebook group recommend low carb but it is not considered essential.

While Dr Bikman is focused on how the body responds to what you have eaten. I would strongly recommend his work so that you understand the science and apply it to your own plan for your own life including into maintenance.

I don’t think that’s it. Dr Fung and Megan Ramos are all over the low carb, appropriate proteins and high fat diet on eating days.
I know what you mean about some of his patients though and I’ve heard him say it was easier to just get them on a fat fast or water fast rather than to try to get them to cut their carbs.
However that was an exception and not his rule.
He does say not to go over your protein target or proteins will be processed same as carb by our body and that’s also what I read in that book by Dr Joseph Mercola who is also a LCHF advocate.
I’ll listen to this podcast as soon as I get a chance to pinpoint where their theories differ.

Case closed 😛 I listened to that podcast and … drum roll … They (Birkman, Fung, Mercola) all say the same, eat enough proteins according to your muscle mass. I guess Birkman went at it because a fringe of the keto population is scared of proteins and won’t eat the amount required.
But yes they all say : carbs is a limit, proteins is a goal and fat is to satiety. 👌

Actually LK, If you spend some time reading the moderated facebook page for Dr Fung, it is repeatedly pointed out by the moderators that Dr Fung does not prescribe that you should be keto, or low carb. Many posters will respond to anyone asking for help that they find it easier to fast if they stay keto, but it isn’t a requirement of his plan and the people appointed as moderators are keen to point that out. They are also keen to point out that the recommended protocols for fasting on his site for weight loss involve mixing it up ranging from TRE to 3 x 42 hour fasts a week.- They used to have week long moderator recommended fasting challenges, some of which went up to 72 hours (3 days) of fasting. – The very active moderators on the official Facebook group for Dr Fung are keen to discourage fasts that are longer than 3 days except under medical supervision.

I do agree with you that many of the roads are pointing in the same direction, getting insulin levels under control, either by fasting or just staying in ketosis.

I share CG’s concern regarding longer fasts.

————–

I don’t know about a Facebook page. I’m only reading his book and he’s pretty clear on the importance of being low carbs 🤷‍♀️
Maybe some social media politics that I don’t know about.
I guess one point where they differ is that they believe some of their highly insulin resistant patients will only reverse IR by doing extended fasting – that TRE isn’t enough for them.

I apologize BeeGirl — I intended to be neither aggressive nor insulting.

I think @beegirl has now left the forums 😞
Beegirl please come back – the fasting thread is clearly here to discuss fasting and was kept separate so as not to muddy the water.
I think the distinction is clear. Also MM himself attempted a water fast so you can’t be that removed from his beliefs.
I hope you return, I would really miss you

As I read it LK, Dr Fung is focusing on people who have all the health problems with being diagnosed as being T2, some of his patients have such extensive health problems that they take them into the clinic for supervised fasts. This means that people have gone beyond IR into the insulin system no longer being able to cope with their diet. Its reasonable in those cases to want to reverse IR as fast as possible, but equally there is an element of the difference in their careers.

Dr Fung is working in a clinic where his income comes from people signing up to his program and their success effects his reputation. So he has to tailor his recommendations to the outside world where he has to keep peoples motivation up to stay with the program. Obviously peoples need to see rapid changes including inch and weight loss.

On the other hand, Dr Bikman works in the world of research. He studies changes in the body at a cellular level, without the extra hurdle of dealing with the issues of people emotions.

BeeGirl — please, you are the person who should stay on this thread, not me — I was just posting info on my favorite information source, Dr. Bikman.
I went back and reread my post, I was replying to Louisekangaroo who stated that I might be posting on the wrong thread, as if I were confused, which I was not.
I guess I found that insulting, like I was a dotty old person who was lost in the threads — so my response came from that point of view. Probably why you perceive it as “aggressive”.
So please, I need to step away, not you. I have needed to stop posting for a long time, and this is my good moment to do so. So many of my “friends” have gone, and the threads feel empty to me, so best to populate with a different group.
You should return and stay with LouiseK as the two of you have been good fasting buddies.
Honestly, I truly hate this way of communication.

Hey Julia/Californiagirl, Please don’t go! I have loved your posts over the last two years and the insights you offer. As you say, this form of communication has some serious drawbacks. It can lead to unintended offence/flurries/whatever. But they blow over.I for one would not want to lose you or any of the other contributors on this thread. Couldn’t we all start again in Optimistic October??

Julia I agree with Caron …. please stay!
I have always found your posts are full of common sense and have often helped me put things into perspective. You tend to post selectively when you have something really useful to add and it would be a great pity if that was lost.
I know what you mean about the threads sometimes feeling ‘empty’ and the paucity of posts of late, only reaffirms this. Times change , and we all move on, but nonetheless we do tend to keep popping in here. I think it helps me to just ‘remember’ what I should be doing and gives me renewed enthusiasm.
So, Julia, don’t leave because the forums would be far poorer without your input.

I was not going to post, not least because I have had my own unsuccessful September (following on from rather poor July and August), and other stresses. But I would also hate to see CG/Julia and BeeGirl, or anyone,go, especially following a misunderstanding, which I know only too well can happen. There is so much division and confrontation generally elsewhere, and this is a safe place for all. We are all aiming for a common goal – we should celebrate that. BeeGirl, I have personally loved your humour, and your updates about bees/mead/sticky kitchen floor/mad hair colour and dungarees. CG/Julia, I have also loved your updates, your power walking around Bath, and your measured insights: I do not think anything you have ever posted should be construed as other than caring and balanced.
I have been very much helped by all who post. And hope that will continue – I need it!

This is my first time posting on here, I never imagined I would!
So I just (almost accidentally) completed a 24 hour fast. Stopped eating between yesterday’s lunch and today’s. I stayed hydrated and got an early night so it was alright mostly! I decided in not so much wisdom to head out for lunch and coffee by myself. This turned out not the best idea as towards the tail end I started to feel very nauseous and a bad headache. I ordered a salad box with lots of chicken, avocado, egg mayo etc. It tasted delicious but lord, I was not prepared to still feel sick whilst very slowly eating. I barely managed to eat half of it but then remembered that nobody has a feast right after they have a stomach upset do they! Still, it was certainly not worth the price I paid for the food haha. But 20 minutes in after grazing on protein and fats I felt heaps better. Certainly no longer ravenous. I have learned my limit at the moment is 24 hours for sure. There was a time I’d never have even contemplated it. Another surprising side effect whilst breaking the fast was a tidal wave of tiredness. Yet another reason I should have stayed at home and sipped on soup.

Overall though, quite proud and didn’t feel terrible most of it!

Hi @strongcurves! Thanks for sharing your experience of your first 24hrs. Megan Ramos keeps pounding on the fact to progress this very slowly and no point overdoing it (some people feel like they have to do more than the neighbours and push through longer fasts just to up them if that makes sense)
So what I’m trying to say, is well done on the 24hrs and even more well done on knowing what works for you and what didn’t
I think I will limit my fast to 24hrs too while I’m trying to build on muscle mass.

After 10 weeks on the BSD I’m now 40% of the way through a planned 30kg reduction in weight.

Initially I ate my BSD between lunchtime and early evening, but for the past ten days I’ve been having One BSD Meal A Day and clean fasting in between on black coffee and water. No stevia, broth, fruit tea or anything that risks causing an insulin spike. I’m not interested in extended fasting as I have seen decent progress with minimal effort this way.

I have found OMAD easy to plan and easy to do and the day passes quickly. The only issue I have is with shopping – I have discovered it is best to buy what is needed that day as both the BSD and OMAD lend themselves to food waste if I shop in my usual way.

Once I’m at 56kg, hopefully by the end of winter 2020 I’m planning to use OMAD with BSD intermittently as a means to stay there.

Hi SBA
That’s smashing going over the last 10 weeks. You must be really pleased with the reduction in weight – brilliant reduction. It’s also great to hear that you’ve found a way that works for you. For me, in the end that’s the most important thing, finding a way that works for you, gets the results you want, and that you can sustain long-term – the last one is my challenge right now!

Best wishes for the next bit. It’ll be good to hear how you go.

Jennie xx
Edited: yes, I know what you mean about the shopping

Hi Jennie, thanks. It’s all the other benefits I’m enjoying most, old clothes that I loved too much to get rid of, now actually fitting, recognising myself again, the energy, (euphoria in fact), less time preparing meals, reduction in menopausal symptoms, cleaner skin, cheek bones, not breathless when running upstairs anymore and just a sense of joie de vivre when everyone else is hunkering down for winter. I feel more alive than I have in 20 years. I have never dieted before as I thought it sounded miserable and I knew I would cheat, but this diet has truly changed my life. 😀

Hi SBA – wow, I’m thrilled and genuinely moved by your post. You’ve completely captured what I felt like when I first did BSD. Recognising myself again after so many years was definitely a big one for me – I remember thinking, ‘Oh, there you are’ – but all the others are completely right too.
Sometimes I can forget these things in the day-to-day. I’m going to keep your post in my virtual back pocket and take it out when I need a bit of a boost. Thanks.
Jennie xx

Congratulations on the great results @sba these are inspirational.
I agree that the added benefits of clear skin, sharp mind, high level of energy become more important than the weight loss after a while. I love those too!
Also I’m really interested in your experience of OMAD. I hadn’t tried it before as Dr Jason Fung who is my reference re: TRE or fasting mentions in several podcasts that he usually advise for OMAD for maintenance only. So I assumed it wasn’t very efficient to lose weight but one of my girlfriend does OMAD and with great results too.
So I think I will give a go and see how my body reacts to it. Thanks for the inspiration and keep up the good work! 😊

Hi Louise, my one meal is still only the BSD 800kcal though. I don’t have it all on one plate – I spread it as 3 courses over an hour or two In the early evening. It is even civilised – not a frenzied feast as I’d expected.

My husband and I were doing just the regular BSD 800 and our reduction percentages were running pretty parallel even though he has more to lose then me. Since I have gone to OMAD with BSD my graph is still going in a straight line downwards, whereas the angle of his downward trend has reduced a bit over the past 2 weeks. He is less careful with carbs than me though, so it’s not just the fast, but my hunch is that it’s a big factor.
The fast does need to be properly clean though to stop the insulin spike. Water and black coffee only. It’s honestly ok. Good luck.

Thanks @sba, I have done quite a bit of water fasting before (longest one for 6 days!) and it agrees well with me and my body. Fung & Ramos advocate for different fasting regimen than OMAD so that’s the only one I haven’t tried yet 🙂
Will give it a go when I’m ready to shake things up/bored with my current « protocol » 😉