Sorry Elky, it wasn’t you that touched the nerve. I didn’t mean it to come across that way. I just do have a lot of knowledge in this area so wanted to share so people can try to sort out the wheat from the chaff so to speak. I have heard Dr. Fung in other videos talking about eating organic as well. But he is in many cases more measured and at least acknowledges that many of his patients can’t afford to eat organic. It was probably just seeing that video yesterday that made me particularly sensitive to this topic because for the most part I find his advice to be well founded and I was surprised that he would go so far off piste into quackery territory!
Definitely not a boring job for the most part, and it seems that a lot of what I do involves dispelling myths and trying to get policy to be evidence-based!
Agree about ‘natural’ and it is often worse than ‘organic’ as there is no one certifying what natural is! I love you bringing up arsenic. Off topic, but in another job, I had to get people who were subdividing their land to test the new and existing wells for water quality and heavy metal contamination including arsenic which naturally occurs in many of our soils. I had one gentleman yell at me that I was being a typical bureaucrat throwing red tape in his way by getting him to test the existing well as well as the new well as it had been providing water to his family for the last 80 years without any issues. I persisted and he eventually relented and had it tested and it turned out that the water in both wells had really significant levels of arsenic! He put in the requisite reverse osmosis system without a grumble after that. Of course he never thanked me for potentially saving his and his family members’ lives!

No no, all good Arcticfox, don’t worry – I absolutely understand the frustration. And I love your story about the chap who never got around to thanking you for making him test his (dangerous!) water, I bet he still still complains about bureaucrats and red tape. He’ll just conveniently “forget” about that occasion lol

Hi Articfox, Very interesting to read your take on organic, I had a very similar conversation with someone staying in my holiday let yesterday. They were mixing up organic and grass reared.

Sorry folks this is going to be geeky conversation with articfox which some people may want to skip. – On the other hand, a bit of background information. The native grasses in the UK range from 8 to 14% sugar content, for a couple of centuries but intensively in the last couple of decades its been policy to encourage farmers to plant versions of Ryegrass. With the aid of plant breeding programs the species used for at least the last 10 years is 47% sugar. The aim is to help farmers increase profit by speed up the rate at which livestock reach the bulk needed to enter the food chain and the number of livestock that can be supported per acre.

My personal issue is with all the talk of grass fed livestock being lumped into one bracket. I do wonder about the nutritional differences between meat from animals raised on native grasses rather than “improved pasture” . Having worked with laminitic horses over the years I have seen first hand how a high sugar diet causes inflammation in horses that parallels the impact of a high sugar diet in humans.

I get so frustrated that the Welsh Government agri policy is all about supporting farmers to be more profitable by throwing inputs at soil to support rye grass, and there is no support for people who want to look at it from the other angle of learning about the nutritional value of different native species to develop a plan to maximise the grazing potential of the existing soil type. – I have gone round and round in circles looking for the research to link nutritional values of different species, time of year they grow, and soil types they thrive in. So far I have drawn a blank. I don’t suppose you have come across anything Articfox? If you do have any ideas on this topic would you be kind enough to be willing to discuss in depth?

I was reading an article not long ago in WHICH about some of the meaningless food labelling, logos and welfare claims on meats (focus on chicken) sold in supermarkets (UK-based).
I was also listening to a podcast recently where somebody (in a slight transgression from discussing low-carb woe) talked about the thinning of topsoil in the UK over the last couple of decades and the impact of that on the level of nutrients it contains. As an urbanite, that’s something I know absolutely zilch about, but I will listen in on any further conversation with interest.
Jennie xx

Articfox and Elky I am so pleased you have brought this subject up! Since I have been on this woe my meat intake has gone down, some with portion control obviously, but some because I have chosen Halloumi instead, or an omelette. So with this in mind I thought right I am spending less on meat so maybe I can now afford to buy a higher quality, ie grass fed beef and the like. I have been online and looked up butchers and there are loads now that deliver straight to your door. I first looked at one in Devon but soon discounted it because it travels far it comes frozen, I know when they freeze it straight away and quickly it helps keep the integrity of the product, but still I would like to make the decision to freeze or not. So I am now looking at one closer to home. https://www.garlicwoodfarm.co.uk/ This is the link if any of you would like to see what they say in more detail. Now there meat is pastured near enough all year round and that is great! But then JGwen mentioned the sugar content in the grasses they eat so I am now holding off on ordering as I don’t want the sugar! I am trying to make my whole family healthier and I just don’t know what to do at the moment. Any advice would be greatly received. I think the lamb would be fine as it is brought up on the marshes and they are completely natural, or so it would seem? I remember when I lived in Kent that we always had Romney Marsh lamb which is salt marsh and it is a taste so delicious you couldn’t get enough of it🤣. The butcher above does seem ethical and I am hoping it is what it says on the box?

My cousin told me when my son was young so, around 8-10 years ago that if I could make/afford a small change then organic dairy and eggs were the way to go. He was working on a completely organic farm at the time on the Wiltshire/Somerset border, they were really going for it and used only natural things to keep pests away, like planting certain flowers around crops that the pests didn’t like and so on. So I did change to organic milk, eggs and butter, but of course I bought them from Sainsbury’s so who knows? I do think that the UK and Europe have higher standards for these so called organic/ethical farming but is it enough? I am not sure about the rest of the world and I would not try to make a guess. I was also told to buy organic chicken for all sorts of horrible reasons, but alas I still buy it from Sainsbury’s with the little red tractor on it!

I really want the butcher above to be truly what we call ethical and the grass is just normal plain ole grass. If nothing else it stops all the crap they pump into meat going into me and my family! There is also a bio vegetable farm not far from me and I know that they grow completely natural, their compost and nutrients come from putting the old back in the earth to nourish the new and so on. Proper compost🤣. I don’t mind spending extra if I know it is truly what it is supposed to be.

So back onto fasting and today I am! I was going to yesterday but because of my carbage I couldn’t! I am off to Kent tomorrow and my mum bless her has already thought of meals for our stay that are completely BSD❤️❤️ Have a great day guys 💞🦜

Hi Birdy,
If its salt marsh then it will not be improved pasture. So at the least it will have a mixture of herbs and different grasses, some of which may be ryegrass.

The real problem to my mind is improved pasture with ryegrass where the management involves application of lime to get the soil PH to the optimum, and fertiliser and sprays to prevent anything other than ryegrass growing.

I have very peaty soil here, which means a low PH, so one side of the welsh government is advising me that I need to improve drainage, and apply lime to raise the PH. While a different department is talking about how good peat soil is as a carbon sink and how important it is to maintain it for biodiversity.

Birdy – you won’t be getting the sugar into your system, as I believe the animals will convert most of it to fat and muscle, just as we put on fat if we eat sugar, and then the rest will cause health problems for them such as rumen acidosis and laminitis, which is a big problem in our dairy herds as they also consume high sugar ryegrass. In any case, your butcher seems to be quite good. I just had a quick look and it seems that they try to source their beef from herds that are conservation grazing which suggests unimproved pasture.
JGwen – I don’t really know what impact the high sugar grass would have on the overall nutritional quality of the meat, other than it likely has a similar effect as feeding grain, i.e. faster gains by the animal and more marbling of the meat. It would make sense that as the percentage of the sugar in the grass goes up, other things have to go down to accommodate it, but seems to be mostly the fibre fraction that goes down. Protein can be quite high in these grasses too. I’m not sure about the vitamin and mineral content though. Higher fibre content does mean that ruminants waste more of the feed value by producing a higher amount of methane rather than converting it to milk or meat, so they are more efficient at producing meat and milk on a higher sugar or grain diet, but of course that comes with the above mentioned trade-offs. Interesting questions, I’m sure we’ll see more research into these things in future!

Hi folks

Just checking in and looking for a little advice following my last fasting attempt.

Last week I managed my first 72 hour fast with no ill effects, I felt fine right through to the point that I broke it.

This week, I started off Monday after dinner with the aim of at least 48 hours, with the option of pushing on to 72 hours if I still felt fine at that point. Alas, this morning marked 36 hours and I felt truly awful. A bit hungry – but that was to be expected and is fine – but also really dizzy and weak. As in, my arms started shaking while I was pulling my hair back into a ponytail and I almost didn’t have the strength to keep my arms up to wrap the elastic around my hair. I could also hear my blood pounding while did it, as if I’d been working out. I had to sit on the bed while I brushed my teeth!! I know I’m not fit just now but, trust me, this morning was extreme!

I gave it half an hour and still felt shocking, so I pulled the plug and had breakfast. Then I felt fine.

This is the second time this has happened to me at about 36 hours, any suggestions on what I can do to manage it? It clearly doesn’t happen *every* time because I managed 72 hours last week with no problems. And I don’t know what was different. A number of cups of coffee each time, lots and lots of water, including SP mineral water, dipping my finger in the salt every so often just in case I’m losing too much of that, a “good dinner” before I started, multivitamin tablet every morning. I can’t identify the variable, and I don’t know what to try. I am primarily looking for autophagy when I fast, so I don’t want to try something like bone broth to extend the fast, because the protein in it will kick me out of autophagy.

Does anyone have any suggestions I could try?

Or do you think I need to just suck it up and try the bone broth, even though it’ll stop autophagy?

I might be being a wimp, but I honestly don’t think I can just tough it out because I think I might faint. I certainly couldn’t safely do anything like drive to work. Not to mention that I couldn’t do anything except sit and shiver once I got to work, lol

Anyway, I’d be grateful for any suggestions, Elky

Hello to all the fasting crew.
I am still with my 16/8 TRE – but am hoping for a 24 to maybe 36 hour fast next week. I have had a lovely busy calendar over the last few weeks which gets in the way of fasting, but next Monday is all clear so I will give it a go. I think I will be having some bone broth (as in Dr Fung’s guidelines) just to get me through the evening. Good to read everyone’s tips.
And good to see so many jumping onto the Judicious July thread – it seems this past weekend there were a few of us that slightly 😂😂 fell of plan. Perhaps it was the New Moon!? 🌑
As I have mentioned before – the big draw of this WOE for me was to try and help reduce inflammation aches and pains which were really starting to effect my life (sore hands so I couldn’t garden, pain keeping me awake at night, needing to nap in the afternoon! etc). This has greatly reduced over the nearly 4 months of this WOE. Over this past weekend I was off plan as I was away, and ate quite a few carbs and sugar – and the pain levels definitely went up. It happened that quickly – and I also felt really sluggish. I’m back into ketosis this morning and feeling much better. I know I will go off plan sometimes, but will be jumping straight back on afterwards! 😊

Hi Elky
Re: your 36 hour symptoms – I think we have to listen to our bodies and do what is best for each of us. Our bodies and physiology are all *very* different. It was interesting when Wendy (I think) posted a timeline recently of what happens as we fast, and I think 36 was still showing some very positive repair work going on.
Take care of yourself !

Hi Merry,

I was really interested that your pain levels went up so quickly when you went off piste over the weekend. I had honestly not thought about the inflammation effects of this WOE – or rather anti-inflammation effects – until you said that. I don’t know why, somehow the penny hadn’t dropped even though I have seen it in other posts. I had been thinking my disappearing knee pain was due to a bit of a discard but it could also be about reduced inflammation. Or a combination of both. Either way I’m surely not complaining lol But it’s really interesting to think about. I shall keep my fingers crossed it starts to do the same for my wretched Achilles!!

And you’re right that we should all listen to our bodies. And I agree about 36 hours, I do need to be pleased with that. But it’s just so frustrating that last week I was fine and this week I’m not. Hmmmm, that sounds familiar …. oh yes, like the scales – random changes lol

Cheers, Elky

Maybe just make the call each time, Elky? If you’ve done it before successfully then maybe you will next time as well and if not, stop and try again another time. I would be thrilled with 36 hours but I get it, it’s annoying when you set a goal and your body doesn’t comply! Several years ago, I lost a lot of weight by eating about 300 calories a day for five days out of the week but I would screw it up on the weekends because it was ridiculously hard to stick to. Anyway, to try and under the damage, I would fast on Monday’s until Tuesday morning, sometimes longer and a couple of times, I experienced what seemed like a mini seizure that I totally attribute to starving myself. Never had it since and didn’t happen every time. I think our fasting protocols are much more sensible but our bodies can be contrary and listening to them is the best thing.
That’s so interesting that you saw such a difference, Merry. I know when I’ve overloaded on sugar, my whole body is sore to touch, particularly the back of my neck.

There is much sense in what you say, Kafin, I need to stop being so hung up on the fact that I set a goal and am not meeting it. Most unlike me, as normally I’m pretty laissez-faire about my goals, lol

I think part of it is that I’m really worried my 800 calories will just be a typical low calorie diet, despite the low carbs, and my body will go on strike in terms of discards. Been there, done that. I’ve seen JGwen write about this too. I guess I’m working on the basis that mixing it up with fasting will somehow stop that happening, though I think the science is still a bit unclear on that front. Though I suspect that if it does work, then any period would do the trick, be it 18 hours or a week. Fingers crossed anyway 🙂

And how on earth did you ever manage on 300 calories a day??!! My goodness that is so low, I’d have been eating the carpet! I’m not surprised you had seizures. I agree our current approach is more sensible – and easier to stick to!

Sounds like you may have been having a hypo, Elky? Those are similar symptoms to when I get them, but I’ve never had one while fasting, only after eating or when I’ve started eating again. I think you did the right thing listening to your body, especially as your system didn’t right itself after a half hour. Could your system have reacted differently to this fast due to the tomatoes knocking you out of ketosis the other day? One thing I’ve become aware of over the last month is how long it can take for my system to clear excess sugar out and get back on an even keel after I’ve eaten the wrong things.

Oooooh, Arcticfox, that’s a really scary thought! For a miracle I’m not diabetic, and until I went to Dr Google just now I actually thought it could only happen to diabetics. OK, that’s definitely something for me to watch out for going forward, thank you for the heads up. And you’re right, it could be because I hadn’t been firmly in ketosis when I started the fast – I may not have given my body enough time to “de-carb”. Thanks again for the idea, I really appreciate it!!

Hi MerryMelba, can I tag along with your Monday fast please. I’ve read Jason Fung’s The Obesity Code, and Gary Taubes “Why we grow fat” and I’m very interested in the idea of autophagy. This will be my first 24 hour fast, but I’ve been doing 16-8 for a while, and even before I started this WOE I’d often not eat until lunchtime. I want to have a go at a couple of fasts next week as my husband is away so it will be a change in the usual routine and I thought that might make the first couple of goes a bit easier. I thought a 24 hour fast, then Wed pm to Friday morning for a 36 hours one. What do you more experienced people think? I want to try to build them in regularly as I want to minimise the loose skin as much as possible as I have 100+ lbs to lose, and about 140lbs from my highest.
Thanks in advance for any advice. Bx

Hi Baxter – Great – I’d love to be your fasting buddy for Monday. It will encourage me to stay on track. I am planning to eat normal meal on Sunday evening, and then eat again on Monday evening. Like you I am used to 16 hrs, and hope that 24 hrs will be not-too-bad.
Where are you located – are we in different time zones? I am in Melbourne, Aust. 🌺

Hi MerryMelba, I’m on the other side of the world in the UK. Like I said, we will be like a relay team 😁fasting through the time zones

Elky…you did exactly the right thing. As soon as you start to feel unwell on a fast you should stop immediately.
I have never experienced the effects you did but I would only do an extended fast of 66+ hours VERY OCCASIONALY….certainly no more than one a month. It is important to prepare for a fast also .
I don’t think you should worry about the 800 cals turning into a restrictive calorie deficient diet . I have read that this does not happen when insulin is kept very low.

https://idmprogram.com/difference-calorie-restriction-fasting-fasting-27/

If it helps I have been on BSD since September 1st 2018 and I have discarded weight consistently , albeit at a slower pace now. I always stay low carb and have never gained . I attribute stalls to extra carbs /cals creeping in with too much choc and dairy and too many nuts.
I built up to fasting from 16/8 to 24 hour fasts and then the occasional 36 hour or 48 h ( manageable to do when I am working) with no ill effects but I am not doing any fasting at all at the moment.

I agree , it’s a useful tool but to be used for the health benefits and not for damage limitation..

Have you read the fasting guides on the IDM site ? They reproduce the information in Jason Fung’s The Complete Guid e to Fasting and cover lots of questions about fasting
https://idmprogram.com/1-rule-fasting/
https://idmprogram.com/tag/fasting/
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-autophagy-fasting-25/
My view is that fasting should be a liberating experience not an endurance test. It’s important to begin gently and above all, to listen to our bodies. …not being too ambitious starting out , and staying safe

xxx

Hi Guys,
I meant to report in that I successfully fasted from Friday evening to the middle of the afternoon on Sunday, this time it was a water only fast. – Was intending to fast through until either the evening or Monday morning but I was feeling a lack of energy, and felt it was the right time to have a coffee and veg stir fry with lots of butter.

I have come across a series of podcasts covering the talks given at a recent conference on ketosis by a range of experts, (Including Dr Bikman) – They are quite intensive in the amount of data covered. I feel that before posting links to them on the take a look at this thread I want to watch each a couple of times so I can add a summary because it would be daunting to people to have links for a couple of days of lectures added in one go. However, I have had an aaaahhhh moment already. The talks cover how insulin v ketones impact on a range of hormone systems. – There is one which is about the impact of insulin on thyroid system. – I spent my late 20’s going back and forth to the doctors because I had all the symptoms of an under active thyroid but each time they did the “standard” blood tests the amount of T4 being produced by my body was normal. – I have now found out that high insulin levels reduces the body’s ability to convert T4 to T3, the active version used within the body and increases the production of Reverse T3 which is inactive. – So now I know I have been IR sufficiently to be effecting my health for over 35 years. – That explains why I am still so sensitive to carbs after 18months of eating low carb, and convinces me that I need to use fasting as a long term tool to reverse IR.
As an aside, the podcast from Dr Bikman confirms that by staying in ketosis you will not reduce your metabolic rate and will with time increase it by describing in detail the effect on muscles of insulin v ketones.

Hi Baxter and Merry – I’d like to join in on your Sunday night to Monday night fast across the time zones! 🇬🇧 🇦🇺 🇺🇸

Oh, Kafin13 please don’t feel left out, I didn’t include you in the note to MerryMelba because you were already “in” the tag team ❤️. So now there are 3 of us. Merry will start us off, then it’s me, and then over to you for the last lap. Though of course we can always have a bigger team if anyone else wants to join us 😁 xx

JGwen, I see you broke your fast with stir fry veg. Is that particularly good for the first meal, or was it just what you fancied? Have you any suggestions for a newbie, please?

Hi fasters! Quick question for the pro 🙂
I just completed my first 24 hours mini fast. I did it after listening to Dr Fong in a bid to get insulin sensitive and keep my body guessing in terms of calories in/out.
At the end of my mini fast I had a high fat keto dinner of 650 kcal + some almonds so all up I ate 800 cal at diner. I was ravenous.
I weighted this morning like I do everyday and 800gr are “gone”. Do you usually see large discards after a fast? I wasn’t expecting this given that I still ate all my calories
So just curious to know your experiences 🙂

Hello All, just checking in to say hello and catch up with people.

Wendy, thank you for your words of advice, they are very reassuring. Yes, I have the info from the IDM site – and Fung’s book on fasting – and I think I was just too bull at a gate about it, I need to be prepared to take it slowly sometimes. You are also right that it is liberating when it goes well, which was why I was so annoyed with myself when it didn’t. I shall just have another crack at it and be more patient 🙂

JGwen, great to hear that the fasting was successful for you despite how physically demanding your life is. You must be so pleased! I really look forward to your summary of the conference proceedings, you are good at explaining these things. And thank you for the expert reassurance that by staying in ketosis we manage to avoid the slowing metabolic rate risk – as you know I’ve been twitchy about that so it’s nice to hear I should stop stressing lol

Baxter, in my experience it doesn’t matter too much what you break your fast with provided it’s not so heavy that it’ll make you feel unwell after so long with no food. (JGwen is a vegetarian so she would have stuck with veg for that reason.) Have a look at the guides on the IDM site that Merry linked earlier on this thread. As it’s your first time, you might want to break the fast a bit gradually, which is what is recommended after a longer fast. So for example, have a *small* handful of nuts and eat them slowly while you’re preparing the rest of your meal. Or a slice of cold meat (unless you’re a vegetarian too?) and nibble it slowly while you cook your dinner. Just a little something to get yourself used to food again before you have a huge steak or something lol But seriously, if you fancy a steak there’s nothing to stop you having it, in fact it’s exactly what I did after my 72 hour fast. I mean it wasn’t huge, 100g, but I had it with lots of veg and a garlic butter sauce and it was flipping fantastic. Nibbled on nuts while I cooked it, then really enjoyed my meal. They do say hunger makes the best sauce lol Given that you’ll have the whole day’s 800 cal and 20g of carbs to play with, you can actually plan something pretty good if you want to.

Two pieces of advice I’d give: one is not to eat your meal too quickly – I did that once after a fast because I’m mad and I was rushing to go out that evening, and I got the most shocking hiccups I’ve ever had, I really thought I was going to be sick. Second is not to eat your meal too close to bed time – having not eaten for a while you probably want to give your body an hour or so to get back into the swing of food before you lie down for hours. I haven’t gone to bed right after eating, so I could be wrong, but I just suspect it’d be best avoided. (And you’re probably trying not to eat late anyway, like most of us are, but just thought I’d flag it.)

Hope this helps, Baxter. I haven’t been around here too long myself, but I’m a bit of a fasting enthusiast so I kind of jumped in the deep end there (which doesn’t always work!!). I’m just like you, I’d like to discard loads of weight and have already discarded loads over the last couple of years from my absolute heaviest (divorce lol) so yes, autophagy looks like a shining beacon of hope. If I’m honest I don’t think it’ll be a miracle cure but, as I said to Kafin the other day, if it stops me looking like a shar pei at goal then it’s done it’s job!!

Cheers, Elky

All good, Baxter! I wasn’t feeling left out, just wanted to make sure we were all on board in case someone wasn’t checking all the threads! I’m very impressed that you’ve figured out the time differences – that’s like Harry Potter magic to me. Also, I was kicked off the relay team in primary school for always dropping the baton so…umm…as the anchor in the team, this might be my first win!

Hi Baxter,
The reason I broke my fast with a veg stir fry was because it was all I had I the fridge.

I will confess that to succeed with fasting I have to link fasting to shopping. – I find at the end of the day when I get in from work if there is something in the fridge which is low carb and I can grab and eat it out of the packet it calls to me. – For some reason if I have to cook, or even if it involves pulling out of the freezer and sticking in an oven I can resist.

So now I deliberately only have enough food in the fridge to last between fasts and go into town to shop more often. – Which means I am spending more than the money I save on food on extra fuel to go into town.

——————–
I have read on Dr Fungs facebook group about occasions when people find that after a fast their body doesn’t take too kindly to food, and if they eat too much it “goes straight through them” . – So breaking a fast directly before a social event, or a meeting or an activity where having to dash to the loo at short notice isn’t practical isn’t a good idea. Best to start with something light and then have something a little more substantial a couple of hours later.

Hi LouiseKangooroo
The scales are not a good way to monitor progress for a number of reasons.
– When we start out on this way of eating our bodies are stocked up from the carbs we have been eating and to store them the body also needs to bond them with water. So as soon as you start to drop the carbs, your body starts to release the stored water. – That is why some people get dramatic weight loss at the start of this WoE.
We are advised to drink a couple of litres of water a day, each litre weighs a kg, then there is the fluctuating weight of what you have eaten that day, So depending on where we are in the daily input / output of water and digestive system your weight will fluctuate by upto 3kg during the course of a day.
Finally lowering insulin levels enables other hormone systems to work better, including growth hormone, which is responsible for maintaining bone and muscle strength. Both of which will increase weight even though body composition is more healthy.

Thanks JGwen. I thought I had gotten ride of all that stored water after 20 days on 20 carb per day, but maybe there was more?
So you don’t weight yourself after a fast? I’m a daily weighter, I love numbers 😳😂

Thought I’d add that I always weight in the same conditions : naked and straight out of bed. I’m quite “regular” so don’t see huge variation except right before my periods where I see +2kg. Other than that, my weight fluctuates by 200/300gr if at all – so that -800gr after the fast is very new to me.

Hi MerryMelba, Baxter, Kafin13
Can I join the Monday fast club too?
I am planning to fast from Sunday evening until Tuesday morning then fromTuesday evening to Thursday morning and then Thursday evening until Saturday morning. Looking forward to the challenge!
It would be lovely to have companions on the way
MM

Of course you can join us MM, the more the merrier.
I “think” I want to do 2 fasts next week, but I’ll see how the first one goes before I commit to join you on the second part.
Where in the world are you? Just so we can add your flag? Bx

Yes, of course, MadMare!! All are welcome 😊

Thank you Elky and JGwen for the advice. I think I’ll have a slice of cheese, then salmon and salad as that’s my favourite. I love nuts, but too much, so I don’t keep them in the house at the moment. I have no off-switch when I start eating them; the sign to stop is when the packet is empty. I’ve not got any social engagements so I can lurk around the house until I’m sure everything has settled down properly 😂.
I do love a shar-pei, but I don’t want to see one looking back at me from the mirror. When I lost a lot of weight before, I did get a bit freaked by the wrinkles, which surprised me as I never thought I was vain about my looks. Maybe going slower will help with this too. Or perhaps I’m older and will just be more accepting this time. Ask me when I get there!
Thanks again for the advice, Bx

Hi everyone
My humble contribition to the fasting club. Just had my evening meal and I will go through until tomorrow at the same time simply because I will be out of the house while I am getting a pampering at the hair salon ( including hair wash in a massaging chair 🙂 So 24 hours.

Then I will join you from Monday evening, fasting during airport and flight time on Tuesday ….until Tuesday evening when I will enjoy some lovely fish and veg in Sardinia . So another 24 hours. For those who don’t know, I am in France

Good luck everyone xx Just do what is manageable.xx

Im doing a 24 hours fast today. I ate quite late last night because of a medical appointment so will go without food until 8pm.
I think it will be challenging around 6pm when I will be cooking the kids their meal. Wish me luck 😅

Hi LouiseK, good luck with your 24 hour fast! I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you, I really hope you enjoy the feeling. And don’t worry if you don’t make it all the way through, the brilliant thing about fasting is you can always just do it another day.

Wendy I think your plans for fasting while actually travelling (the flight itself, not the whole time you’re on holidays!) is such a good idea. I think you’ve posted about that before, the joys of not having to think about airport food etc. I haven’t travelled since I started this WOE, but it’s just such a good idea I can’t believe I never thought of it. Yet another reason this forum is so good – ideas like that!

Baxter, I’m not sure how old you are but it sounds like we’re a bit in the same boat in terms of amount of weight to discard, past history with ups and downs, and not being in the first flush of youth anymore 😊 (I’m early 50s). I guess I’m kind of just hoping I can discard enough to have to worry about sagging lol Fingers crossed for us both.

In terms of nuts, if you decide you want to let them back into the house, would packaging them into tiny little single serves work for you? I find that saying “I’ll just have 4 (or 6 or whatever) and then put the bag away” just doesn’t work because I won’t stop at 4 nuts. But if I take the bag and divide it into little individual serves from the moment I open it, then I can just take my teeny tiny bag of 4 nuts and that’s that. Would that maybe help you too?

You probably know this already, but just in case: nuts aren’t nuts. Cashews are demons in terms of carbs, they really are one that I ban from the house. And pistachios aren’t great either. Brazil nuts and pecans are your best low carb bet. Interestingly, I always thought I hated Brazil nuts but I recently bought some in desperation and discovered that I actually like them. I think that I’d had nasty stale ones years ago, and when I bought lovely fresh crunchy ones I discovered they’re yummy 😊

Not much to report from me on the fasting front. I’m on OMAD just now after my longer fasting glitch earlier in the week, and that’s going really well. Am discovering the issue that someone else (I think Kafin? Or maybe Arcticfox?) flagged the other day: I end up with a plateful of food and well under my 800 calories. Last night I was at 695 calories and 18g carb and full up to pussy’s bow. You can bet I’m not complaining!!

A question for MFP users: in terms of carbs and fibre, do I subtract the fibre from the carbs to get the carb measure I count? Or do I use the total carb figure? So for example yesterday was 18g carb and 14g fibre – do I count 4 (18-14) or the whole 18?

I’m trying to keep the total carb figure under 20, without regard to a possible fibre deduction, but thought I should check.

Happy fasting, folks 😊 Elky

Hi
I am in the UK
Mm

Hi Elky, yes our histories are very similar. I turned 56 at the end of May, the day better I started this. It sounds daft, but for me it seemed like the perfect day for a new start. Every 28 years the calendar starts to repeat itself, and the days of the week fall on the same day as 28 years ago. So I was born on a Wednesday and my birthday this year was on Wed. I mean, obviously I’ve had many other Wed birthdays, but with the leap years the days don’t stay aligned until you get to 28. It just seemed to me to be nice and lined up. I’m not really daft, honestly, and I don’t do superstitions, but this seemed to me like a “fresh start” marker. Also I’ve heard that people often start or stop having asthma in 7 year cycles, so maybe it’s not totally crazy. Anyway, it felt right, so here I am.
I saw you and Kafin13 and others talking about exercise on another thread and went and had a look at those videos. I’m a lot less fit than you two sound, but yesterday evening I had a shot at the cruise ship ones, except for the “dangling off something” ones. I’ve never managed a chin up in my life, and even as a kid I couldn’t do the hand over hand swing across the bars in the playground. However I did manage the other 5 exercises, albeit that I was on the easy versions, eg pushups with my hands on a fairly high sideboard. But I’ve got to start where I am. I liked his comment that you won’t see any change but if you keep with it, when you look back in a year’s time you will see how far you’ve come. And one of the advantages of getting older is that time goes so quickly. I can’t believe we are over half way through 2019 already, so what is a mere year to get some muscles?
Anyway, time to head to work. Have a good time today. Bx

Morning from France everyone . Elky , it was Esnecca who discussed fasting while travelling to avoid the disappointment of airport food. I pinched the idea. Our flights in Europe are not long haul but I enjoy just leaving the house and not having to think about food and then to enjoy a lovely meal when we arrive.
Nuts …I love em all but my favourites are brazils, pecans, almonds , walnuts and macadamia. I don’ t eat cashews …hubby does though ! I I have thought about little individual servings ( I might even have advised that on the forum once ) but right now I am just abstaining until I feel I can ‘respect’ them in the same way I can totally pass over bread, rice and other carbage.

It’s the same with my dark chocolate. I am training myself to respect it more because even 85% is too easy for me to over eat.
Heaalthy foods are so important but I have realised that I can also eat them to excess. Lesson learnt !!

Have a good day everyone. xx

Thanks Elky. I did a 24hrs fast this week already and very much enjoyed it. I also shifted 800gr on one day with that fast so ripped out the benefits.
Today my son and husband surprised me and came to the city to have lunch with me. So fast was short lived. But as you mentioned it’s so easy to pick up and do another time. I will do one on Wednesday when I’m back at work – much harder to fast when I’m home with the kids constantly asking for food 🤣
Re: carbs, I looked into it a while ago and for the fast 800 you need to register gross carbs regardless of fibres. HTH

Sorry have not had much time to post today. Will be back tomorrow … I did 24 hours today xx
Here is an IDM article by Jason Fung aboout longer fasts

https://idmprogram.com/longer-fasting-regimens-part-7/

Baxter, high five for doing those exercises!! And please don’t think I’m fit – Kafin may be, but I’m sure not. I’ve been resting my Achilles for months (I ignored damage for years so it got worse and is therefore taking ages to come good again – lesson learned lol) so I’ve not even been able to walk very much. I even stopped wearing my Fitbit because the step counts were too low and depressing lol I’m *slowly* getting back into it now, but I’m super unfit. Don’t worry, my push-ups won’t be on the floor yet either!! But we will get there 😌

And I love your idea that every 28 years can be a complete reset. I don’t think it’s daft, I think it’s actually kind of nice, like we’re being offered a “do over” button. I like that idea, I really do.

Wendy, I absolutely agree that we can have too much of even healthy foods. I know I can lol On the subject of chocolate though, is anyone else here addicted to cacao nibs? I have only recently discovered them and I swear I could eat them by the bag (speaking of having too much of a good thing …). Bitter chocolatey crunchy goodness. Nom nom nom

Why am I talking about this on the fasting thread?? Bad bad me!

LouiseK, thanks for the note re: ignoring fibre count, that is indeed helpful.

And now I’m off to do those exercises I’ve been talking about for days!

Have a grand day everyone, Elky

I’m not fit either, Baxter!! Just needed to clarify that and well done for doing the non-dangling exercises! Nice to know you’re doing them with Elky and I 😊
I’m on the countdown to my Sunday evening fast as the team anchor representing America in the red, white and blue corner (with some Kiwi thrown in for good measure!) – think it will be much easier knowing I’m doing it with others. I can’t abide black coffee or black tea so I will just be doing fizzy water (is it ok to add lemon or lime, do you think?), plain water and herbal teas. Is it still considered fasting if you have bone broth or miso? I don’t think I would have it but just in case, I’d like to be prepared!

Hi Kafin, yes lemon and lime in water is fine for a fast. Technically you could add something like the broth too, using Fung’s protocols, and still be fasting. He in fact advocates using it if it makes a fast easier.

And I just love you all doing this international team fast!!! It’s like a barbarians team lol (Rugby reference just in case anyone thinks I’m being offensive- but I figured since the team is NZ (even if representing US), Aus and GB then I was safe lol)

Flag waving in support, Elky

Good morning peoples!
Well I do hope that wasn’t our summer – where’s the blue sky gone this morning?
Elky, I’m with Wendleg re the nuts. Even if I put them in little packets, they’d call to me, and I’d be lost. With people mentioning dark chocolate, I stood in the supermarket this week, and looked a bar of Lindt 90% square in the eye, and decided we’d best not start a deep and meaningful relationship, as it would only end badly. I walked away. Phew! I think the only way I can have those two is if I can buy single portion sizes somewhere, or if I eat them away from home in a restaurant or at someone else’s house.
And further on our “twin-ness” – I’ve had dodgy Achilles for the last couple of years, which reached the point where I could barely shuffle across to the bathroom in the morning. Sometimes it would ease up during the day, sometimes it would get worse. I assumed it was due to weight, and it was one of the drivers in my starting this WOE. They have been so much better in the last couple of weeks. I’m not sure if that’s because I’m a bit lighter, or if it’s the nocarbs = less inflammation. Whichever, I’m very grateful. And I had about 8 months not wearing my Fitbit too, for the same reason.
Kafin, as woman whose heritage is the South Wales valleys, I’ve known about the Baa-baas since I was a baby. Maybe we should look out stripey T-shirts for our international fast, though of course we can wear socks of our own choosing 😁. Re your 4th of July blip, now you’ve had a bit of time to get over your frustration at getting it wrong, what have you learned so you are better prepared for the next time? What will you do different next time? The Barbarians are social off the field, and innovative on it, to win great victories. Our international team will be the same. 🐑

90% Lindt is one of my favourites , Baxter. I did a recent count and have 5 bars of UNOPENED dark choc ranging from 81% to 100% cacao in the fridge. They are not calling to me.I know that one day they will be back in a deep and meaningful relationship with me, but for now we are ‘on a break’ 😉 Same with the nuts , visible in jars in the kitchen but we also need to have some time apart 🙂 I know nuts and choc have not disappeared from the face of the earth so I have no need to grieve for them.

I have cacao nibs too , Elky. Nice for a bit of crunch in yoghurt , but again , for now we have to put some distance between us 😉
I am very silly.

Ooooh, Wendleg, you are brave! Bx

hee hee Baxter….I can be very stubborn and when I set my mind to something……watch out nuts and choc …I’m in charge 😉

Hi folks! I think creating mini challenges for exercise and fasting is a marvelous idea! 🙂 Please consolidate your results
somewhere so that we can learn from your experience! Have you exercisers considered adding “planks” to your programs?
Not difficult to do, and they add to core strength.

Elky, how to calculate carbs is a point of confusion that occurs often on the forum. It depends in large part on what
country you are in. On the Fast800, it’s “net carbs” that you are looking for. Nutrition labels in the UK already have
the fiber deducted, so you use the carb total listed. In the U.S., our labels list “total carbs”, so we must deduct the fiber to
arrive at the net carb figure. I’m not certain how it is done down under or in France, so we will have to wait until those
members weigh in (pun intended)
A great weekend to all!

I was told to count total carbs if I’m trying to reach or stay in Ketosis. Apparently net carbs wouldn’t be a much different number anyway so probably use whatever is easier to calculate.
In Australia and in France the nutritional panels show total carbs.