LTC, I haven’t undertaken this process…I hope Sunny sees your post, too! Just wanted to say hello!
Have you tried Bulgarian yogurt? Thank god for Whole Foods 🙂

Hi LTC! Glad to see some activity here.
I culture my kefir in glass, then store it in plastic. I don’t believe it makes a bit of difference which you use. Just be sure you don’t use antibacterial soap to clean your utensils, containers, or your hands, and if you rinse them, use non-chlorinated (or filtered) water.
I started with about 1 tbsp. of grains to 2 cups of milk at most, and I’ve continued that way. Sometimes just 1 cup of milk. And my kefir is always very tart! So it will take you longer. It’s trial and error at first–just check it and see how it’s come out after two or three or more days, but I’m just guessing as to the time.
Mine turns out slightly bubbly sometimes, but I don’t think that’s a great thing. I cover it with a paper coffee filter secured with an elastic band. Once it’s strained, I store it in the refrigerator.
Have fun, and let us know how it turns out!

Hi LTC – I personally think the homemade kefir tastes far superior to the commercial stuff you can buy, so I hope you enjoy producing your own.

i think the reason glass containers are advocated, is that there is a line of thought that the acids in the kefir, may leech chemicals from the plastics. I have no idea if this actually happens, but admit I fermented in glass only – even when I was bringing grains with me on the road trip to Turkey.

Grains can take a little while to settle when they have been on transit, but I think this is getting used to a new environment, as much as anything. It may be thar your first couple of fermentations are not very palatable, but don’t be discouraged, just discard, put the grains in fresh milk and begin again, it will come right. I think you might have been a little ambitious with the amount of milk to grains, which could mean the milk turns before the grains finish fermenting. If this happens, wash the grains thoroughly with bottled water and start from scratch using less milk. Again this may mean they need a bit more time to settle into good production. It is better to ferment smaller batches to begin with, until the grains are established and growing.

Yes, to get a fizzier product, cover with a tight lid during fermentation, but as you say, ensure there is some space for the gases. When you have more grains, you can also add a few to your finished product before storing in the fridge and these will continue to ferment but at a slower rate, however it will also increase the fizz element. You can either sift these out later, or just eat/drink them.

It is not necessary to ferment in the dark, as long as the fermentation container isn’t in full sun light. I normally ferment my kefir out in the open in my kitchen in a little nook near the Aga, where it is nice and warm. You can suspend production by putting the grains in a large quantity of milk and putting it in the fridge. They can last for many weeks unattended this way.

I have found the easiest and quickest was of extracting grains from product, is to use a nylon sieve, such as you’d use to sieve flour. Tip the lot straight out, catching the whey if you want to use it, or discarding it if not and then mixing the remaining contents around with a wooden spoon, until all the product has been recovered and the grains remain. Takes all of a few mins and this method is less messy than some.

Hope some of that helps. Best of luck with it and please shout if you have any problems and I try to help if I can.

Hi LTC, SunnyB, Alliecat, MarianneA, and everyone else. I can’t add anything to the above. It is all good advice.

I have been on holiday and just left my grains in a load of milk. Then took some out to make some new this week. It only took 24 hours in my kitchen as it is quite warm here.

One thing though…I do use tap water to wash my stuff…even the grains…mainly because I forget. They don’t seem to have suffered at all. And I just use Kilner (Glass) jars anyway as they are easier.

Hope it helps.

Nonna Mary
xxx

MarianneA, Sunny and Nonna Mary thanks SO MUCH for all the great advise. So glad you gals saw the post amid the flood of new folks posting. Sunny, had not considered the milk going bad before the grains took….duh. I have no probablem dumping the lot and giving my new babies a fresh but smaller batch. I thought I was giving them ample food and never considered the milk would simply turn faster than they could take hold.

Agian, thanks so much for the great advise. Such a wealth of knowledge on this forum.

And Allie…no have not had Bulgarian yogurt. How is that different from the Greek? If you recommend it, I will definately seek it out.

Love to you all. LTC

Luv, the difference between Bulgarian yogurt and the Greek is that the whey hasn’t been strained out.
Consequently, it’s much “soupier”, but contains extra vitamins and minerals, as well as a higher
number of active cultures. Flavor is tangier, too. I mix my breakfast portion about 1/2 and 1/2.
The recommendation came from Esnecca originally, but I can’t remember if it was on the forums
or in one of our lengthy phone conversations 🙂 Whole Foods carries the “Trimona” brand, which
is organic and grassfed. Nutritional breakdown for 1/2c serving is 4g protein, 70cal and 5g carbs.
I use Stonyfield fat free (I know, a travesty!) and 1/2c of it is 11g protein, 60cal and 4.5g carbs.
Let us know how your kefir production proceeds! Glad Sunny found you…I knew she would!

If your tap water isn’t heavily chlorinated I guess you can rinse your grains in it, but to era on the side of caution I have always use bottled, even here in Turkey, where the water to our apartment is direction from a well under the building.

Keep us posted on your kefir LTC.

Sunny, took your recommendation and bought some bottled water to rinse the grains. My guess is that the city water I have is probably too chlorinated for them and don’t want to risk it. The good news is the milk did not seem to have soured but discarded it anyway to be on safe side and rinsed grains and put them in fresh milk (smaller quantity). The grains looked like they plumped up considerably so my sense is that I am off to a good start. Thank you for all the expert advise.

Allie…will seek out the Bulgarian yogurt and give it a try.

On another note, have any of you tried the recommendations re the resistant starch?

I have been in maintenance mode now for about a month per my most recent bout of “whatever” (still think it is Lyme in spite of negative test….but don’t want to do the heavy antibiotics anyway so really is a moot point). Going to do a semi fast for about 5 days (300 calories a day….mostly kefir and salads) as a jump start to get me back in the groove. But would like to see how my blood sugar reacts to resistant starch down the road. My guess is that it might be ok for maintenance but not good for weight loss. Would be intereted to know if BSDers have any experience in that area. Very intregued about the green bananas and the cold potatoes/rice/pasta etc. The thought that vichyssoise could end up being a “heath food” is hilarious (cold potatoes and leeks supposed to be good for the gut bacteria). If it works, sign me up.

XXX LTC

LTC, re resistant starch: I have about 1/2 teaspoon of potato starch every night. I really think it is making a difference in terms of getting a good night’s sleep! It’s supposed to be very high in resistant starch, it’s just a bland white powder that can be added to any liquid, and it couldn’t be easier.
I have a filter on my water faucet and when I taste unfiltered water now, I really taste the chlorine.

Marianne, very interesting. Do you just add it to water or mix it into something else?

LTC,
The potato starch is a fine, bland powder which I can add to anything. If I’m drinking tea or juice, I’ll add to that, but adding to water is fine. You need to keep stirring because it settles to the bottom of the cup quickly. Cheap, easy, and extremely healthy!

For those of you who maje your own milk kefir, do you do a second fermintation? I started doing this 2 nights ago and I’m excited about it. I noticed an immediate improvement is digestive issues: bloating, etc. Also, oddly, I didn’t feel hunger cravings today until the afternoon.
I started this based on the recommendation of someone who also noticed an immediate improvement. So, after I strained out the grains, I added a small amount of fruits (dried & fresh) and some fennel seeds. Left it at room temperature for a day and a half. It looked strange & bubbly but I stirred it and consumed.
I should add, I drank it today. Last night I took out the fresh fruit (an apple wedge, cut up) out of thebubbliness and ate that. Very tart. But the improvement I noticed was based on that.
So–I’m in NY, but next week I crossing the pond & will travel in France & Italy. Toying with the idea of bringing grains & culturing some kefir on the road, and very encouraged by discussions in this thread!

MarianneA

Hi MarianneA, haven’t tried a second ferment in this way, but I always put a few grains in my strained kefir before storing. This extends the fermentation, giving a bubbly slightly fizzy end result which I prefer to the standard kefir.

Hi MarianneA, haven’t tried a second ferment in this way, but I always put a few grains in my strained kefir before storing. This extends the fermentation, giving a bubbly slightly fizzy end result which I prefer to the standard kefir.

Just thought I’d pop in here to say, that on returning home from our four months away, I find that the kefir grains I left in plenty of milk in the bottom of the fridge, have survived just fine. Have to say I am somewhat surprised, as the longest I have left grains in this way before, was 3mths. The grains I took with me, I left with Turkish friends, who are hopefully benefiting from them. Meanwhile, I am looking forward to enjoying kefir again from my surviving grains.

Calling all would be kefir producers! Somehow I seem to have accumulated quite a large batch of kefir grains, so if there is anyone UK based who would like some so that they can start culturing for themselves, please text me on 07768 206353 with a postal address and I’ll get some to you.

Going to kraut some red cabbage, which I’m going to set up tomorrow. It’s a while since I did any fermentation other than kefir, so quite excited about it.

How is everyone else doing with fermentation these days?

I have never had kefir. Is it really sour? I know it’s good for you but I hate that really sour taste of some yogurts.

Hi SunnyB! Good to see you. I am regulary culturing milk kefir, which I find easy and foolproof once you get the routine going. I now also culture water kefir grains, which is more maintenance but very enjoyable and delicious. You can flavor it and I love it.

I regulary give away mk grains. I found a group on facebook and I ship grains to them and they reimburse me through paypal.
If you use facebook, look for the group called Kefir Grains, Scoby and Others. Therein you’ll find a Europe Milk Kefir Request Thread – Shipping.

Verano, I do find my milk kefir very tart. Like tasting lemon juice. I add fruit and stevia which helps. The higher the fat in the milk, the last tart the flavor; problem is, I often use skim milk.

Thanks Marianne – I confess I’m a bit of a ludite and don’t use facebook or twitter etc.
With regard to sourness Verano, the sourness is affected by how long you culture, what you are feeding the grains on and whether you ferment in a closed jar or aerated jar. I use whole milk and add a tablespoon of double cream and only culture for approx. 18hrs. The result is not overly sour, although it definitely has a tang, but then I usually culture with a glosed jar, rather than on covered with a cloth to allow the gases to escape.
As Marianne says, you can add things to flavour and lessen the sourness too. Could be worth giving it a whirl.

Thanks SunnyB. I have a really odd palate. I love the sourness of lemon or lime and an quite happy to suck a slice! I don’t like the tangy sourness of yogurt! Guess that I wouldn’t like kefir and to be honest it’s going to take a bit more than kefir to get me into a new regime!

Greengal, hope you see this thread …. there’s lots of info here on various ferments, if you’re interested in digging deeper. Hadn’t realised how long it’s been dorment, so now could be a good time for a bit of a revival.

Thanks Sunny !I will be following and reading all the back posts on this thread !!

On it.. thanks guys, 😃

To help keep this thread current, thought I’d report on my rhubarb, ginger and cardamom ferment.
Have now divided it onto a couple of smaller jars and popped it in the fridge. Had a couple of spoonfuls with some yogurt for lunch and it was quite tasty.
Interestingly, it has lost that acidity one associates with rhubarb. Think it will make quite a good condiment … thinking with pork or maybe cheese.

Got a bit creative today and put together two more veg fermentation…. one of beetroot leaves with shallots and whole coriander seeds, the other with white cabbage, tarragon and smoked cornish sea salt. Hoping they will work, as I’ve really been enjoying the last two fermentations I made.

Bumping this one to the top again, as there,are one or two people interested in investigating fermenting.

Sunny can you tell me how you make your rhubarb and ginger concoction please. It sounds really interesting. Thanks in advance.

Hi V, the recipe I used was from a book called Fermented Vegetables by Kirsten K Shockey and Christopher Shockey, but basically it’s approx 500g rhubarb chopped into small cubes (making easier to pack tightly into your ferment jar), 1tbsp grated ginger and approx 1tsp unrefined sea salt. The original recipe includes 0.5tsp ground cardamom, but the last time Imade it, I used some finely chopped lemon grass instead.
Anyway, put the whole lot into a bowl and massage together to start to release liquid from the rhubarb. Allow to sit for 10mins or so to let the quantity of brine to increase. Tightly pack the rhubarb into the fermenting jar, tamping it down with your fist or a tamping tool. Pour in the brine, it needs to cover the rhubarb when it’s pressed down. Top off with some cling film and then a weight of some kind, to keep everything below the brine …. I use a smaller jar filled with water, or you can use a ziplock plastic bag also filled with water.
Then it’s just a case of waiting. Let the fermenting jar sit somewhere cool and out of direct sunlight for 5 to 7 days. Check daily that all is remaining below the brine. Once the fermenting is done, spoon into smaller jars and top with the brine. Can be stored in the fridge for 2mths.
Hope that helps. It’s really tasty and makes a great accompaniment for cheese, meat and even curry.

I’ve ordered the book – can’t wait!

Thank you Sunny I’ve copied and pasted your recipe. Now I just need to read up on jars etc. etc. etc. …….

I’ve been using large Mason jars, as they have nice wide necks making it easier to pack (and decant) the veggies. Have used mainly pink Himalayan rock salt, although I did use smoked cornish sea salt for one … not that you could tell from the end result.

Wendy is our resident veg fermenting expert and I’m sure she’ll offer advice if you have any questions.

Oh Sunny I don’t think I am an expert !! I just haven’ t had any disasters yet so I must be doing something right ! Verano ( hi !!) like Sunny, I am gaining in confidence….

We have lots of LE PARFAIT preserving jars in France and that is what I use most of the time and occasionally a simple jam jar to make smaller quantities. You don’t necessarily need a fresh rubber seal each time.I reuse mine.

Yes, Kirsten Shockey’s book is THE reference as far as I am concerned and it has the advantage of being organised by ingredient so you can find a recipe based on what you have available..Lots of very useful pics too

I took a while before I took the plunge but now I love it.Once the basic principles are understod it is a very therapeutic activity.
I use coarse , untreated , unrefined sea salt .

The book has arrived (thanks for recommendation, it looks fab), let the fermenting begin! – or well… there’s rather a lot to read so might not start my first ferment tomorrow morning. The one thing that strikes me about the Shockey recipes is that they seem very large portions, like several cabbages for examples. I suspect there will be a maximum of one other person in this household who will be persuaded at least to begin with. How much of this stuff do you normally get through in a couple of weeks? I’m kind of thinking I’d rather have a few different things on the go than a gallon of sauerkraut…
I had a quick look at posh crocks online and decided that old Kilner jars will do (!) – what sizes jars do you usually use?

HI Britta ! That’s great that your book aririved.I admit I took a while to digest all of the information . I also watched a few videos on Youtube and gradually the wizardy dissipated !
Yes, the recipes do call for quite large quantities but I just adapt them .I also have to do a bit of tricky ( for me 😉 ) Maths to convert pounds to grams and kilos !
For example today I fermented some white cabbage with apple . Another two small jars with fennel seeds and caraway seeeds to see which one I prefer.
I use the LE PARFAIT jars
https://leparfait.co.uk/collections/frontpage/products/le-parfait-super-preserve-jars
I have a range of different sizes but I would never fill more than a litre jar.
To give you an idea… a head of cabbage ( weighing about a kilo) and 2 small apples made 3 jars ( 0.25 l, 0.5 l and a jam jar)
I too like to have several ferments on the go rather than one big pot . They keep for ages in the fridge ( this also slows down the fermentation process so no worries)
I eat fermented veg every day on my ‘feeding ‘ days added to my salads , omelettes whatever.
Just take your time Britta …it’s not complicated but it is important to follow a few basic principles. Take time to really massage the salt into the veg (red cabbage is tougher and takes longer than white) Make sure you pack the veg very tightly into the jar, tampering it down so there are no air pockets and the brine is visible.
I don’t use fancy weights.I tend to put a cabbage leaf on the top of the jar weighted with either a little espresso cup ( no handle) if I have room, or just the cabbage core .
As long as you keep the veg submerged you won’t go far wrong.
I don’t have fancy crocks either but if I spot one on a car boot I will snap it up 😉
Good luck with your fermenting ventures, Britta !

Personally, I’ve used the book to give me the ratios rather than the quantities for the ferments. I use litre size Mason jars and find that capacity works well for producing enough for one person (OH is not over keen although he does quite like the rhubarb ferment). It is surprising how much the chopped veg compresses down. I know Wendy ferments in small quantities too. Small quantities need watching a bit more closely and ferment more rapidly. I find that a week fermenting seems about right for the quantities I make.
Think the reason the book gives recipes for large quantities, is because the authors produce large amounts which ferment in crocks for quite long periods.
The good news is once fermented, the result will keep in the fridge for weeks if not months …. think you’ll find storage period at the end of each recipe. Because I produce in small quantities, every thing I make will be used up before the suggested expiry dates though.
As for how much will be use up in a couple of weeks, that’s really how long is a piece of string. Do you think you will eat some once a day, twice a day, once every other day? At the moment, I’m eating a couple of tbsp of two different ferments each lunch time for instance, so they are lasting a couple of weeks or more.
Hope some of the above is helpful Britta. I’m sure Wendy will offer some advice too. It took me a week or so after getting the book, to work up the courage to set up my first ferment. Had some problems a couple of years ago, when I tried before with very limited success, but using the hints and tips in the Shockey book has made all the difference.
Good luck 😁

My internet was in and out all day yesterday …. very frustrating! But lovely to wake up to all these hints and tips. Thank you both for sharing your expertise and for the link to Le Parfait.
Well I’m starting by reading this thread from the beginning….. see you in a few days!

Thanks SunnyB – I will def try the rhubarb and ginger.
I also will get Shockey’s book from the library – and then I also came across their blog – http://ferment.works/blog/?category=Recipes
Lots of lovely recipes – the lemon achar may get a go to use up some of my excess lemon crop.
🍋🍋🍋🍋🍋

Oooh like the look of the lemon char, merry, will be giving that a go! Thanks for the link.

Hello fermenters!
My first red cabbage (and a bit of apple) ferment, now 1 week old has just the right amount of crispiness and tastes quite good, but I would ideally like it to have a bit more acidity or sourness. Will I get that if I leave it a bit longer or is it all about ingredients you think?
Also, I’m beginning to consider kefir. I’m on the fence because I really enjoy my full fat greek yoghurt. Those of you who eat kefir regularly – do you feel much of a difference?

I make my own kefir, Britta. Can’t say I notice any difference in how I feel physically, when eating one or the other. Would say as a generalisation, kefir tends to be more acidic (although that is affected by fermentation time), so it’s more a matter of preference. It also tends to be much thinner than Greek yogurt, so texturally different too. Personally, I mix and match.

If you’re in the UK and would like some grains to try making your own kefir, let me know on this thead and I’ll give you a contact number, so you can let have an address to send too.

Sunny that would be great, thank you very much! I’d quite like to give it a go. I don’t drink regular milk, but I was born in Scandinavia and there are a few soured milk products that I sometimes miss, so I’m thinking kefir might be a good starting point.

Hey Britta, text me or WhatsApp me on 07768 206353 with your postal address and I’ll post you some grains with instructions.

Wonderful, thanks Sunny!

Just wanted to report on my most recent veg ferment, which is delicious! Made it with sweet potato, celeriac, shallot, garlic and coriander seeds. Got the shallot and garlic amount right this time, so it isn’t overpowering. Loving the crunch and tang, so think I will be repeating this one.

That sounds lovely. I’m very partial to celeriac remoulade but the rest of the family is not so I often have some that ends up sitting in the fridge for days. That might be a good use for it. I’ve just put one on with golden beetroot, garlic and dill. No idea how it will taste but it looks really pretty so that’s a win in itself!