Welcome to this merry band of maintainers Flick. Hope you will soon relax into it and feel as comfortable in maintenance as you have been on the Fast 800.

Allie, I think some of the new folks seem to be looking to make tweaks almost before they have started on the BSD. Some choosing to take weekends off, some choosing to continue drinking alcohol and some, as you say, throwing in a fast or two as well. Whether this is a water fast, or a lower calorie fast is not always clear. What I think is sad, is that it seems some do not even attempt to do the BSD Fast 800 as outlined in the book. Whether they will ultimately succeed in achieving their goals and maintaining, I guess is yet to be seen.

Allie,
MM has said on UK TV that the odd day fasting completely won’t do any harm, but it not to be recommended as a regular way to lose weight, as your body is likely to go into starvation mode and store every morsel it receives once we start eating again. Also, eating like a gannet for 5 days a week, if on the 5:2 diet, isn’t good either. Modification in all things is best, but low carbs definitely, as it is stored as sugar in the body, which turns to fat.

Not sure he was say the odd day fasting was necessarily okay in conjunction with the 8week Fast 800, given that it is already a huge adjustment for the body to make.

I tend to agree, I do think that some newbies seem not to be committing to the full BSD800 and sometimes think that a fast (not necessarily water only) is a “get out of jail free” card.

Personally, when I was losing, I committed wholeheartedly, even obsessively, to 800 and low carb, with no alcohol, until I reached goal. This has given me great discipline and, I think, enabled me to be a tad more relaxed in maintenance. For me personally, if I’d been relaxed whilst losing, I doubt I would have learned the discipline and self-restraint to carry me safely into maintenance. But each to his own, surely any attempt is better than none? Though if it results in constant yoyoing, maybe not? I don’t know, I’m not an expert and can only write about my personal experience and what has worked for me.

You’re right of course Theo, we can only really speak from our own experience, but I think you are right in that the lessons learnt in the discipline on the 8wk Fast 800 are valuable and is to my mind essential if one is to fully embrace this way of eating, into successful maintenance and avoiding the potential yo-yoing in the future.

Sunny B, no, you’re quite right. Apologies for any confusion. The complete fasting was not in conjunction with the 8 week BSD, calories per day. . It was on a separate programme of MM’s, talking about different diets in general.

Theodora, I agree wholeheartedly with you about being disciplined during the 800 for 8 weeks. To do it for just one or 2 days a week on the maintenance seems relatively easy now and has become a way of life that I know I shall have to stick to if I don’t want to look fat again, or get diabetes again!

Thank you so much everyone, for contributing such intelligent and insightful observations to this topic.
I appreciate everything said here. I’m in total agreement with all of it. I think I constantly search for
the “perfect” way to communicate all that the BSD has to offer in terms of providing the best motivation
I can offer. I’m always grateful that we all contribute to the effort, and if I miss a newbie post, I know
that the “sisterhood” is there to do an outstanding job, always. Perhaps we need to patent and post,
cut and paste, a collective response? We acknowledge that we are basically preaching to the choir,
here, but it reinvigorates me none the less. You are all bright stars in my universe 🙂 🙂 🙂

I think you’re right Allie – collectively, we try to welcome newcomers aboard, but I think the beauty of us doing so as individuals, is we all have something slightly different to offer and can tailor our posts to the new person being welcomed, drawing from our own experience and whilst we have travelled similar paths, they all have their little quirks. Think for everyone there is a learning curve and a process of discovery and realisation involved and although we can offer to others the knowledge we have gained along the way with the BSD, we cannot make them accept all we have to say and there is much value in learning a lesson for one’s self.

So very true, Sunny..One of the more accepted expressions from this side of the pond is “you can lead a
horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”. One of the more offensive ones is “casting pearls before
swine”, but that one is better left in the dustbin of history 🙂 🙂 🙂

This is such a supportive forum – I am nearing the end of R1W8D3 – I haven’t reached my target yet – have lost 8kg which is nowhere near as much as some people have and I have been pretty strict, with one or two exceptions, like a glass of red wine (2 over the nearly 8 weeks) and the odd handful of nuts. But I am pleased with this as I know that I am a very slow loser and I feel that it’s not all about weight loss, but also about a way of life. These 8 weeks have changed my taste buds and my capacity for large meals and I hope that this will continue. I am going to carry on with the BSD800 for two more weeks after this and then I go to the States to visit my daughter and family. Still a bit worried about that but have had some great advice from here about how to manage.
My husband has also done this and has lost 6lbs shy of 3 stone, which is wonderful. I have been reading a lot about fasting etc and thinking about it, but I feel that I need to have really bedded in this diet before I start changing anything. I’m worried that if I start fasting for long periods, I might upset things and overeat afterwards and I feel that my management of my eating has been hard won – I want to feel fully confident about it before changing anything. I generally do 16/8.
It has been so helpful to read everyone’s comments (I read a lot, but don’t often comment myself), especially when I hit plateaux and there have been many….it’s certainly not a linear process. I have just needed to trust the process and keep going which I don’t think I would have done without hearing about everyone else’s experiences. I will come back to BSD800 when I get back from DC to lose a further stone and a half and then go onto maintenance….that’s the plan anyway.
Anyway I just wanted to thank everyone on here who is so supportive – it’s made such a difference…

Theordora, thanks for the link, that as really helpful. And you are absolutely right, thenonly way is to find an approach that suits my unique circumstances. I think I’ll break it down into three phases –

Weight loss – BIG TICK
Reverse diet – gradual reintroduction of calories fom 800 to TDEE – begin today 😃
Maintenance – rest of life

All good to start Phase 2 today,. For the first couple of weeks I’ll increase daily calories by 50 each week up to 1000 and then depending on how I’m going, up by 100 etc. I plan to keep carbs low, not just for weight management, but As importantly, Imdon’t want to reinstat that hunger, or lose this lovely light energy and excellent sleeping. Not sure how low and maybe I’ll find it varies depending in what I’m doing – dive trips, socialising etc. R introduction of moderate alcohol on weekends is almost certain 🤪

Allie, I don’t see any increasee in newbies fasting. But the ones I’ve noticed are not doing strict 800 cals so it is more like Jason Fung’s IF approach to weight management. Maybe not what this website is intended for but well researched and reasonably safe for people who are not on dietbetic medication etc. These folk won’t get the benefits of the 800 diet and I doubt using fasting for weight loss in an unstructured way will result in good results, but some folk are managing very complicated lives and it does offer an option for getting back into fat burning.

I don’t feel exprienced enough to offer any advice or encouragement to people opting fo this, so just quietly observe.

Meanwhile – YIPPEEE I am officially through BSD Fast 800 and weigh a very sweet 60.2!

Well done on trusting the process and gaining such good results so far, rubyred. It can be tough for those of us who lose slowly, to stick with it when things get tough and the forum certainly helped to carry me to the end goal. Have to say you have had a pretty good result to date though – certainly not shabby by any measure! Think you are right about holding off on fasting while you’re on the Fast 800, as your body has enough to cope with at that calorie level.

The first time away after the 800 can feel daunting, but if you stick with the BSD principles and try to put in some 16/8 days if you can, you should do just fine while you’re away. And remember, you are so much better equipped now, to deal with any small gain quickly on your return. The change in taste buds and portion sizes should stick now, which will make keeping to the BSD way of eating much easier, so just make good BSD choices and try to relax and enjoy your time away.

SunnyB. Great advice! I agree whole-heartedly with your comments. 16/8 sounds interesting. I’m not sure I would enjoy the scales reading after 16 days though. At least with the 5:2 my body is used to only 800 calories now and again, so although I could happily nibble all day, I’m not hungry, so just grab a few walnuts and a hot drink if I’m desperate. That works for me.

The 16/8 refers to extended overnight fasting, so 16hrs between evening meal and breakfast/lunch, then finishing all eating within an 8hr period. This is something rubyred has been doing and I as encouraging her, to continue doing the same whilst she’s away if she can. It was definitely not a 16 to 8 day eating pattern. If you already have something that is working for you, AngS, then there’s no reason to change anything – ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ as they say.

On another topic, has anyone else been screaming at the news today, that the UK government is tasking manufacturers to reduce the calories in processed and pre-prepared meals etc? STILL they are focusing on fat and yes, sugar too, but they are completely missing the overall low carb message!

Flick, well done. I’m a newbie to all this and am 7 days into the BSD, and am finding it more bearable than I thought. to know you have achieved your goal is so encouragingI

SunnyB….YES….My blood boils everytime the UK health department states Women’s calorie intake should be 2000, and Men 2500….GRRRRRRRRRR
My mum and dad are constantly quoting this along with the ‘5 portions of fruit and veg per day’..not a mention of which fruits to be careful of bumping your carbs up. Hence, when I visit them and they have just eaten a punnet of grapes between them, and they say it was one of their allowed 4 fruits, I just sigh. I gave up a while ago trying to educate them on carbs sugar and fat. The sad thing is they actually take notice of what the government dictates. Another Sigh.

They are far from the exception there, GoFouritGIRL – there are sadly millions like your parents, who will be doing as they’re told by the establishment and still be struggling with weight and health issues. It’s frustrating beyond words!

I’m surprised trained nutritionists – even diabetic nutritionists – at our surgery anyway, are still promoting “balanced meals” with too many carbs to reverse diabetes! Anyway, our GP has seen what can be done with the 8week BSD, as I’m living proof that it works.

I remember the 16 hours of fasting now, which is why MM’s brunch idea (cheesy beans with mushrooms on a Saturday is still one of our favourites on a Saturday) is good at the weekends. They’ve discovered that weight loss increases with a 16 hour fast.

Unfortunately, the establishment is sticking to the flawed ethos and I fear will not adopt the Low Carb/Healthy Fat for a good long while yet. Hopefully the message will eventually get through, but it’s not likely to be any time soon. All we can do is spread the word where we can and hope!

I wondered if any of the maintainers on the forum have looked at studies or recipes which focus on glycemic load rather than number of carbs, and if so if you could pass on any advice on the topic or links to more information.

“One thing that a food’s glycemic index does not tell us is how much digestible carbohydrate – the total amount of carbohydrates excluding fiber – it delivers. That’s why researchers developed a related way to classify foods that takes into account both the amount of carbohydrate in the food in relation to its impact on blood sugar levels. This measure is called the glycemic load.”

Trying to stick to under 20g carb and be vegetarian is really difficult, and after 4.5 months of a very repetitive diet I have come to the conclusion that I need to look in more detail about the impact on insulin of each food source which would maybe be the route to increasing variety. – I have the feeling that by carefully choosing high fiber dishes, or dishes with higher level of fats which come in under the 50g carb level would work as well as sticking to a rigid 20g limit.

I didn’t want to raise this topic on the general threads as it may be too fine a line in the sand for new comers to understand the significance, but I thought that maintainers who had concluded they suffer from IR may have looked at this topic.

JGwen, you may want to do some research on the work of Arthur Agatston, MD, creator of “The South
Beach Diet, and is premised on the concept of the glycemic index. His cookbooks have sold millions
of copies, and I’ve used one entitled “The South Beach Diet Quick & Easy Cookbook” (30 minute recipes),
but there are many others. His is a phased approach, which does introduce whole grains back into
the diet in later stages. I found the recipes to be very good, which I’m sure is the reason why it became
so popular in the States. (yellow cover) I believe it is still available. You’ll have to do your own research,
however. I know that being vegetarian presents additional challenges, but as that isn’t my preference,
I’ve never taken the time to educate myself on the subject. My focus is more on the nutritional density
of whole foods, as well as the low carb mantra.

Hi, JGwen. The gram count on carbs isn’t something we in the UK pay much attention to in every day chatter. Although we may glance at the number of grams of carbs or %, when we are shopping, and although we are concerned with kcal counts and/or how much fat, sugar, protein and carbohydrate foods contain, many foods are colour coded, so green in the carbs and sugar columns is good. I often don’t even look at the figures now, just the colours. Also, I am still following MM’s 8 week BSD diet recipes, but adding a bit more meat or a few sweet potato chips on non-diet days, so I know I’m controlling my carb and sugar intake. However, I do feel guilty drinking wine these days. 12 teaspoons of sugar in every glass!!! Gin and slimline tonic, or Bacardi and Diet Pepsi for me these days – only on non-diet days though… And I still enjoy my red wine at the weekend. 😉

Hi Alliecat,
Thanks for the link to a diet based on glycemic index, from what I have read there is a difference between index and load, which could have quite a significant benefit for all us to understand. Glycemic load helps to work out how different sized portions of different foods compare with each other in terms of their blood glucose raising effect. Which means that load will give a more accurate picture of a food’s real-life impact on blood sugar then index.

So for example, recipes focusing on glycemic load could have a small quantify of an ingredient which has a high glycemic index in a dish but because of the fat or fibre content can mean that the dish will not have an impact on insulin levels.

Also apparently some ingredients with similar indexes have different load values.

For example according to :- http://dietgrail.com/gidvegan/

Stewed dry red beans, Puerto Rican style Have a load of 5.5 and Index of 28.0
while
Stewed dry lima beans, Puerto Rican style Have a load of 1.2 and Index of 31.0

So switching one type of beans for another in a dish would keep you in fat burning mode.

Not sure it is strictly true that those of us in the UK don’t take much notice of carb content – I most definitely do and I know there are many others in the UK that do too. Almost two years ago, it was a UK member of the forum that advised me to look at carb intake, when my weight loss had stalled. I personally NEVER take any notice of the ‘traffic light’ nutritional labelling and ALWAYS read the full carb info on the full nutritional label on the back of food packaging.

For me, the whole GI thing is muddying the waters as far as the BSD is concerned, but I can see that for vegetarians particularly, GI is something which might need considering when planning meals. For me, keeping carbs down around 20g per day is all I need to do to successfully maintain.

Best of luck finding your way forward JGwen

Hi AngS,
Having been counting cals, and eating healthy for most of my life, including selecting products based on the traffic light system on the front of the packet I realise that the healthy sounding figures put on the front of the package in large print by the manufacturers are not the figures to use.

Reading the actual carbs shown on the back of the packet is far more important. Next time you are in the shops take a bit of time to compare the two and you will realise that the manufacturers are using every opportunity to portray food as being healthy when it isn’t.

The success of a number of people on this WoE has been linked to having a target of 20g of carbs a day. Not just looking at the level of sugar.

Hi, SunnyB and JGwen,
I’ve obviously not been paying enough attention to food labels and am a self-confessed lazy girl. I’m terrible! Can’t be bothered if someone else will do it for me. That’s why I’ve been so relieved to be able to follow MM’s healthy diets. It’s my new way of eating and, as well as having reversed my Type 2 Diabetes, the 5:2 is now working for me and my weight is steady, plus by following MM’s recipe, I know my carb intake is low and therefore keeping my blood sugar levels down.
About 8 years ago I joined Slimming World to lose weight before my son’s wedding in Cyprus. I lost over half a stone in about 6 months. With MM’s 8-week BSD, I lost half a stone in 2 weeks and so did my husband, who ate twice as much as me, but the same recipes. I hadn’t realised until diagnosed with T2D how many carbs were in the SW way of eating!

There is a range of approaches to maintaining AngS – almost as many as there are maintainers I think! – and you have found one which works for you and your life style, which is what it’s all about. You put in the hard yards to successfully reach your goal, which is a huge achievement, but even more impressive, is that you have a defined way of maintaining and staying in control.

Sadly SW’s diet advice is not alone, as all of the what I would call the ‘high street diets’, subscribe to the establishment line of carbs taking up the largest portion of the plate – hence the slow and poor results, which are almost inevitably not maintainable.

Keep going with what you are doing AngS – it’s working for you, so no need to even think about changing anything.

Thanks, SunnyB. Yes, I’m very fortunate, but realised along the way, that it is so important to set a target first, then have enough determination and the correct mindset to stick with it, which is so important to succeed in any target.
I also have a very supportive husband, who nags me if he thinks I’m straying… 😉

Hi AngS,
Perhaps its being a vegetarian that has helped highlight it for me, but its not unusual to see products which are meant to replace just the meat of the meal or ready meals which are all green lights and with low sugar levels and when you turn the packet over they contain 60g plus of carbs for a very small portion.

I guess its easier for food producers to bulk out vegetarian dishes with things like breadcrumbs, filo pastry and potato to maximise their profits than a dish which is supposed to be about meat.

Actually, I don’t think it is just vegetarian packaged meals that are bulked out like that JGwen, which is why I’m incensed about this new directive from the UK government, that manufacturers need to lower the calorie content in packaged meals/foods, because as all of us here know, not all calories are equal and the carb content could still be ridiculously high. I’m yet to find any pre-package meal which would be low enough in carbs for me to consider eating it.

I wouldn’t go near any of those products either, Sunny, for the identical reasons. Those sugars, real or
artificial, are the most blatant form of subterfuge. I’d much prefer to eat the simplest whole, unprocessed
food if time is at a premium, than put prepackaged anything in my shopping cart 🙂 I hope this link is
eye opening and usuable:

healthyeating.sfgate.com/different-words-sugar-food-labels-8373.html

I agree, Alliecat. We eat fresh food all the time now. So much better for us. More time consuming, but so satisfyingly tasty.

Hi all, I’m stopping by quickly, on my way, but wanted to post this link for JGwen

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/glycemic-index-and-glycemic-load-for-100-foods

What strikes me is everythung seems to have a lower GL. I’m not a vegetarian although I don’t eat vast amounts of meat or fish, but don’t know how one could incorporate this into a low carb approach to weight loss which looks to establishing ketosis of some form (moving body into burning fat rather than carbs). Maybe useful if main focus is on calories restriction combined with minimising carbs.

Maintenance is a different kettle of fish of course and once eating to TDEE I imagine some people successfully adopting a classic low GI (eg South Beach) or low GL long term eating plan or mediterrean or low carb.

Ps. 59.7!

Just thought I’d put a shout out to the maintainers, to see how everyone is doing. I’ve pretty much resigned myself to maintaining at just a smidge over 8st, as although I have tried to push under that line it doesn’t seem to be happening. So I have decided that at 6lb below my target weight – for the moment at least – I’m going to back off and can afford to not to beat myself up about not managing to drop a couple more pounds right now. Perhaps after the extended vacation in Turkey, as I’ll probably have a couple of pounds to shift once we are home, it might be possible to get under that 8st marker then. Meanwhile, happy maintaining at 8st 1.2lb.

How is everyone else doing?

Hi SunnyB, sounds like you are doing very well. I have settled nicely into 16/8 lifestyle, I may move onto a 18/6 eventually because having breakfast in the middle of the morning can be a bit disruptive to routine, but for the moment it’s working. Having done 5:2 for over 5 years with only a few weeks off (get me!) I am finding 16/8 a very pleasant change.

On the maintenance front I have had to admit to myself that the 4-5lbs I gained over Christmas… yes CHRISTMAS…weren’t going to lose themselves despite me thinking I was trying hard, so I am back counting calories until further notice…all those extra nuts and cheeses took their toll! I kept hoping for a whoosh but no such! I’m hoping it won’t take more than 2-3 weeks. Today is day 2 and I’m already feeling the benefits! I forgot how easy the low cal part is to stick to because the food is so satiating.

I’m in a good exercise routine too, long walks, HIIT and Pilates for flexibility this is something I neglected when doing the weight loss section of the BSD in 2016. Unusual for me because although I’m no gym bunny I’ve worked on my fitness for many years walking, hiking and stretching etc!

Hope everyone is well and still loving the low carb journey.

Hi Daisiesmum – well done on getting back to basics and tackling those unwanted pounds. Like you, I like to switch things around – some days 16/8, some 18/6 etc. It’s been working for me well in maintenance and it was something I used during the weight loss phase as well. Hope you soon shift those extra pounds and will be able to work at maintenance again. Will look forward to hearing how it goes.

Hi SunnyB
I’m currently sticking with 16/8 which some days are harder than others, along with watching carb levels. I have lost another 1lb (8st 6lb) so 3lb to go. I keep telling myself wait until the weather gets better then I will be able to do more gardening/hikes etc. I think most of us (after getting through the initial 8 weeks with weight loss) have attained a knowledge of what works for us, and its almost like having studied a subject at school which you enjoyed and stays in your mind throughout the rest of your life (well I hope it does). I still struggle with the lack of family acceptance of the diet (Mum bought me a vegetarian quiche the other day which had a zillion carbs in).
Good job Ive got a teenager who likes savoury, but does not have a sweet tooth..YIPPEE… at least someone listens.
I think you have shown that you have great willpower in achieving your goal and will enjoy your vacation knowing that you will exterminate any holidays lbs quite quickly.

Daisiesmum
Well done to you also…Im with you on the nuts and cheese…think I should invest (or invent) in an electronic device which only drops 4 or 5 walnuts out per/day LOL

I have a confession to make. Although I have been 100% BSD and haven’t eaten one bad carb – my water intake has dropped to virtually zero!!! Have been really tired since Christmas and since I upped my water this week have felt much more energetic. I wonder if the tiredness could be lack of water.

Krysia, I have had the same experience this winter. During the days of frigid temps here in New England when
the electrical heating system can’t keep up with the demand, I’ve had a difficult time picking up those cold
glasses of water! Heating water with a few slices of lemon in it has helped. I definitely don’t feel as energetic
when I drop below 2 liters of water per day, so I’ve had to really push to get it done. Feel so much better when
I do 🙂

Allie

Hi GoforitG1rl – I’d buy one of your nut dispensing machines! I like to sprinkle nuts with a little himalayan salt as I am sodium deficient (apparently it’s a hypothyroid thing) and it’s a nice way to get a little extra, makes the nuts just that little bit too irresistible though!

On the water front (pun intended ha ha) I usually fill my 2l jug the night before and keep my water at room temperature – for flavour I drop a fruit tea bag in for 30 mins or so. I seem to need about 3litres a day, which is a lot more than before BSD days!

SunnyB- thanks for the encouragement, day 3 today and it’s still completely painless – woo hoo!

Allie – I think it is the coldness of the water that has put me off drinking it – so thank you for your tips Allie and Daisiesmum. I can’t believe how much better I feel when I drink more water.

Krysia – I’m drinking 2 litres of warm water with a slice of lemon a day now. I can’t drink cold water, certainly not in winter! Hot water works for me. I leave it to cool a bit or top up with a drop of cold… you can easily gulp them down 🙂

Ha Kazzi, I’ve mastered the gulp, too 🙂 I can polish off a 10 oz glass in 3 chugs (not ladylike) if need be! Maybe
I’ll save it for my next “party trick” on skype 🙂 Time to head off to the kitchen and get in some more practice…..

At routine daily weigh-in this morning I was 8st exactly (112lb)!!! Only change I really made was to extend overnight fasts to between 17 and 20 hours everyday since Monday and push up the hydration a little too. Very happy with this result, although fully expecting a small blip upwards over the w/e, as we have a lunch out today and probably a cocktail this evening. Hoping I’ll be able to quickly resolve any movement upwards though and may be get just a smidge below 8st by this time next week, which will put me in a comfortable position for the long vacation. To be honest though, I’m just going to do what I’ve been doing and not stress about it.

Wow sunny B! That is very, very impressive and inspiring! What a fantastic place to be at before your holiday. You must be thrilled. I am going to see if the same works for me. I am maintaining reasonably well. Up and down 2lbs over the last five months but ideally would like to lose about four or five more pounds before my son’s wedding in June. Thank you for sharing your success. I know that you have been following BSD like me for a long time and I am inspired by your resolve and commitment, something which I feel I may be losing and it is a little worrying. So, with inspiration from your success, I am going to start next week with longer fasts, even more water and more positivity. Thank you!

To be fair, I have been hovering between 8st 1lb and 2.8lb for what seems like ages, so I decided it was time for a little action – which thankfully seems to have paid off. Hope it helps you to drop that last bit too though. You have time yet to give it a real go and with renewed focus I’m confident you can achieve it – after all, you have come this far, so you have definitely have the power to achieve a little more. Keep us posted on progress.

Congratulations SunnyB and have the most wonderful time in Turkey.

Lots of love
Nonna Mary
xxxx

Sunny, that’s very impressive! At 5’2”, that must give you a BMI of about 20? I haven’t gotten below
21. I can’t think of a better way to prepare for an extended vacation 🙂 Congratulations!
Hope all goes well this weekend with 15yr old grandson. That’s a challenging age! More than
once I’ve given in to my nephew’s desire to visit video arcades. The racket almost drives me nuts.
Way to much “stimulation” for me, and on occasion too much for him, also 🙂