Greetings all!

Have just received the book – plan to read it this weekend – & joined the forum but I’ve got 1 question that I’d appreciate some guidance on.

Is the forum solely for those who want to control their blood sugar AND lose weight or are there any here, like me, who want to control their blood sugar but maintain their weight? (I’m tall, slim, very fit but rather surprised – shocked – to be told I have T2 diabetes)

Thanks, in advance, for any words of wisdom

David

That’s a difficult one David, part of the BSD idea is to go really low calorie (800) to shock the pancreas into starting up or at least burning visceral fat around the pancreas and liver to give your diabetes a chance to improve. However, I think just going low carb will help with BG levels but maybe not have the final desired effect, i.e. no diabetes. I also think that if you do the 800 you will not lose lots of weight if you don’t have it to lose in the first place but as an example, my husband is 6 foot tall and weight about 13 stone (so not overweight at all) but by eating healthier just cutting down on carbs he has improved his blood pressure, cholesterol and triglycerides. The only medical problem he had was slightly high blood pressure. So even just being more aware of carbs has helped him and he is now 12 st 6 lbs, just nicely trimmer.

In my honest opinion, I think if you really want the BG improvements you need to do the whole thing and will probably not lose very much weight. Read the book, look at the science, decide what it is you are wanting to achieve and by how much (lower BG or normal BG) and then take your pick from the 3 diet styles 800 fast, 5:2 or Mediterranean.

Anyone else have a view on this. By the way, the forum is for anyone who is not happy with either weight or BG or is pre or diabetic or not. Good luck.

David, make sure you get diagnosis from a specialist rather than generalist as some don’t seem to know there are more than 2 types of diabetes.

Thanks sunshine-girl

I’m 6’4″ & my weight varies between 82 & 85kg; I actually feel better @ the 84/85 kg level. As I work-out hard 3 or 4 times per week – & hoping to play league cricket in a few months – my difficulty is maintaining my weight eg on a Saturday morning – my toughest day @ the gym – I typically ‘use’ over 1K calories

I’ve vaguely heard of visceral fat but have no idea how to measure it; must check this out

I’ve obviously got a lot to learn
David

Thanks donnyman

Interesting – I didn’t know there are other types of diabetes; so far the only option I’ve been given is to see the Diabetes specialist nurse @ the surgery

how do you get checked by a specialist? via your GP or go private

David

Hi DavidA – I’m also a newbie (today in fact).

I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but I’m sure most modern electronic scales in the £30+ range measure visceral fat by passing an electronic current through you.

Thanks Shanshu

a year or 2 ago the gym I go to had a very fancy machine – loaned by the local health authority – which measured all sorts of things eg. blood pressure, resting heart rate, body fat, etc., etc.. If I remember correctly, I think my body fat was around the 15-16%, however, I didn’t really checkout what this meant/how accurate it was

David

I think the scales that measure fat only measure total overall body fat and are massively inaccurate, to measure visceral fat you need to have a scan. Not really possible but there is a body type called TOFI, thin on the outside fat inside (also toffee because you are shaped like a toffee rather than an apple or a pear) so even though you are tall and slim you could still be carrying a lot of visceral fat.

As for the diabetes diagnosis, you don’t give any figures (i.e. your HbA1c or even finger prick reading) do you know what they are. As for there being different types of diabetes, there are 3 types. Type 1, Type 2 and Gestational Diabetes. Type 1 you would probably have known about as it manifests from a young age or teens/twenties, Gestational Diabetes is developed during pregnancy so I doubt you have that, then there is Type 2 which you have been diagnosed as. If you numbers are quite low you could be pre-diabetic but without numbers I don’t know. When you see the nurse you might be given a glucose tolerance test at some time where you fast, then drink a sugary drink and have your BG tested at various intervals to see how quickly, or slowly, BG returns within a normal range. I personally had a HbA1c of 11.5 (very high) and my doctor just sent me for a second test with full instructions to fast although I had for the first as I was actually being checked for cholesterol but having a full blood works. My second test came back the same so I was put straight onto medication. Nearly 12 years ago diet could be tried but not at my level, it had to be brought down quickly, that was my downfall. Oh if only I knew what I know now.

Let’s assume that you do have diabetes (and I was slim when diagnosed 58kg but only 5 foot tall) and it is quite likely, although lets hope it is in the pre-diabetes range. Anyway saying that, here are 2 pieces of advice as you seem to want to know about it. 1. buy a book from The Dummies range called Diabetes for Dummies, it is excellent and simple and clear and easy to understand and goes through everything. Second, right now there is a course being run by http://www.FutureLearn.com called The Diabetes Epidemic. ust 2 weeks of a few minutes a day studying but you can take it at your own pace. It is free and open to anyone and should be useful to you.

If you have any more questions, I am not qualified but I used to be a registered nurse so know something, done the Diabetes course with FL and currently doing The Science of Nutrition with FL just because it interests me. So I dont usually talk out of my bum and if I don’t know the answer there are plenty on here who do.

Good luck.

Thanks again sunshine-girl

Some interesting info here; I need to follow-up when I have a little more time.

Right now it’s time for breakfast – 2 eggs, some Parma ham, some cheese, followed by some raspberries & blueberries, Greek yoghurt & thick double cream, glass of water & mug of freshly brewed coffee – & off to the gym. 1st class (& toughest) = hour-long Circuits (a mate made me a ‘we must do our Circuits……but WE HATES IT’ keyring with pictures of Gollum on it; quite appropriate as at times during the class you quite often wonder why you are trying to kill yourself but you do get a buzz if you get to the 60th minute & you’re still alive. Hmm, must look-up what Homo Sapiens means……

Once more unto the breach…….

Hope you & all on the forum are enjoying your Saturdays, whatever ‘floats your boat’

David

Hi David, I know very little about diabetes so may be talking out of the back of my head but there is an interesting series of lectures by Jason Fung on Youtube. The ones on the causes of obesity wouldn’t be relevant but there is a series on intermittent fasting which talks about controlling diabetes.

Have a good weekend…

There are more than 3 types of diabetes!

Thank you for that donnyman, I seem to be ignorant of any more than 3 so can you enlighten me as to what they are. I do know about Insulin Dependent or Mellitus or Type 1 so you could call that 2 types, Diabetes Type 2 is Mellitus but can also be MODY (mature onset) or LADA (latent immune diabetes) but they are still technically Type 2 just start at different times with possibly slightly different causes and Type 3 which comes about from brain damage but, again, technically it is still Type 2 just caused by something different. So that being the case you are probably right but they are still 1, 2 and Gestational with variations.

Maybe I should have said their are 3 MAIN types of diabetes.

How are the other types you mentioned “technically type 2”?

Thanks Angela06

I’ve realised over the last day or so how little I know about Diabetes; I really must get to find-out more & have added the YouTube lectures to my growing ‘to do’ list.

1 thing I hope NOT to find-out is that wine is packed with carbs. It is 1 of life’s ‘little pleasures’ & a life devoid of little pleasures doesn’t bear thinking about…….

David

David, a little red wine is allowed, however, it has to fit in with your calorie allowance and at a low rate of calories most people prefer to save it for food. You are also allowed 70% dark chocolate in small amounts.

Donnyman, I cannot go into the full pathophysiology of the various types of diabetes here. There is lots of reading you can do. Where Type 2 can be called different things but still be Type 2 is because the end result is the same although the cause might be different. For example, most type 2 starts later in life but more and more it is starting earlier (i.e. 40s and 50s where as it was 60s and 70s) so it has a new label of early onset diabetes but it is still Type 2, then there is standard Type 2 caused by the pancreas not creating enough insulin, then there is another Type 2 where the pancreas creates the insulin but it does not do its job efficiently, also known as Type 3, then there is latent diabetes, usually caused by either a brain injury or malfunction which causes the pancreas to not produce enough insulin or not use it efficiently but this is a special case and extremely rare as to rarely get a mention and very little is known about it. Type 1 is where the pancreas has never been able to produce insulin or has completely packed up in early life. There is no insulin, end of story. Type 2 there is insulin, just not enough or quality. Gestational only occurs in pregnancy so is treated as a special case as it can disappear as soon as the pregnancy is over or can lead to Type 2 in the future.

So, to summarise, Type 1 no insulin at all, Type 2 some insulin but inefficient (for various reasons so given different names) Type 3 unknown origin unknown physiology and rare, Gestational occurring in pregnancy. Having said I wouldn’t go through it all I seem to have.

Donnyman, are you asking because you are interested, or are you asking because you want me to justify my statement. If you know something different please share it with us as you seem to think what I am saying is wrong. If you want to learn about it do the 2 weeks course with http://www.futurelearn.com called The Diabetes Epidemic.

My point to David regarding getting the diagnosis checked was really because Type 2 is unusual in slim fit people – not unheard of, but often other forms of diabetes are misdiagnosed as Type 2. A colleague got her diagnosis at the same time as I did (type 2) and collapsed in the office 6 weeks later as she was a slow onset type 1- we were all surprised as she was 42 years old.

point taken Donnyman but you can see from what you said, it was a difference between Type 1 and Type 2. I am sure when David sees the diabetic nurse it will all become clear and it is a good point that he should be referred to a diabetic specialist. Isn’t everyone. I don’t live in the UK so am not familiar with the process. In the case you quote, someone made a mistake, and it happens. As for the slim part, I was not at all overweight and I exercised regularly and was aged 53. Another reason for giving T2 different names, more people are getting it younger, so they call it early onset or later called latent onset and so on. I don’t know how old David is, don’t think he has said.

Most people in uk who have diabetes don’t see a specialist diabetes nurse. Instead they see a practice nurse at the GP surgery. Most with diabetes are diagnosed by the General Practitioner who is very much a generalist and some of those are reluctant to refer atypical cases to specialists, as each referral has a cost.
I see mistakes in our health service every day. As I told my sister recently “for God’s sake don’t just trust us!”.

I have never seen a diabetic specialist but mainly due to not having the language skills when we first came here. Now I don’t need one. My GP is always going off on courses and learning new things plus he really listens to me and if I tell him about something like this diet he will research it for himself. I did go an see a nutritionist about 2 years ago and she nearly killed me, I told her I couldn’t eat all the carbs she wanted me to and she made me promise to follow the diet for diabetes control and weight loss. 6 months later I had gained 5 kgs and my HbA1c had gone from a regular 5.7 to 8.2. I couldn’t get it down no matter what I tried and then I found this diet and I am now back at 5.9. So that’s one professional I would never trust.

I think your experience is pretty much par for the course. Practice nurses (at the risk of sounding boorish) are not likely to be competent diabetes specialists. The NHS solution to high blood sugar is to increase insulin which in turns leads to an increase in weight. Impossible to get on top of this high carb, high insulin cycle. Most NHS personnel stick rigidly to the party line, and advise consumption of a large amount of carbs, with the resultant high blood sugar leaving us feeling helpless ever to get our bs levels down. Can’t really blame them for that, because if anything were to go wrong they would be in trouble if they had deviated from instructions.

I was originally misdiagnosed with Type 1, fortunately I seem to have the reversible version. Currently I take metformin, which fortunately does not seem to produce any side effects, and have been able to stop the glicazide for the most part. It should be borne in mind, I think, that GPs are paid very handsomely to deal with diabetes sufferers. I wonder if they are so anxious for you to attend their clinics because of the ker-ching factor? It would be very comforting to think you would get the best advice there, but I know that my previous compliance with their advice did not lead to an improvement in my condition. At present my BS varies between 5 and 7

“Most NHS personnel stick rigidly to the party line, and advise consumption of a large amount of carbs, with the resultant high blood sugar leaving us feeling helpless ever to get our bs levels down. Can’t really blame them for that, because if anything were to go wrong they would be in trouble if they had deviated from instructions.”

I don’t think that’s the reason. You need real expertise to form a professional clinical opinion rather than relay guidance. Very few have it.

I could not agree more. However, I found that my low opinion of these medical practitioners resulted in a very aggressive attack from another poster, so watch out! Apparently to criticise them is to be boorish.

I’ve been working in the health service for 30 years, I am a specialist in my field and therefore feel fully qualified to have opinions on differences between care provided by generalists and specialists.