2 weeks on 2 weeks off a good idea?

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• posted by Pippilina
  on 8 Mar 2019 at 13:14

  

  Hi Everyone,

  I’ve just started this due to pre diabetic fasting blood (high 6s). I have about 1.5 – 2 stone to lose. Nearly at the end of week one (feeling grim TBH!). But, having read the book and done some more research, I am wondering what people’s experience of doing the MATADOR (Minimising Adaptive Thermogenesis And Deactivating Obesity Rebound 2 weeks – on, 2 weeks off) style fasting is. The thought of doing this for 8 weeks feels me with dread and if the results are as good doing the MATADOR then it seems a good way forward.

  I’ve only lost 3 llb this week and have been super strict. But… a bit gripey that the book (whilst it does say to limit carbs) does not emphasis it like this forum does, so Days 1-3 I ate 1/4 apple or small amount of sweet potato. This forum seems much more Keto based so last few days have only eaten v low carb veg and salad.

  Any thoughts on 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off plan would be much appreciated.

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 8 Mar 2019 at 13:37

  

  Hi Pippalina, this is your diet and you can do it however you want. There are some benefits to sticking it out longer than 2 weeks and then going back to your old way of eating for 2 weeks???? That seems counterproductive. However, that is up to you. I would just say that as you are pre-diabetic and high 6’s is very close to diabetic, it would do you more good to stick with it for longer. First of all, giving up the starchy carbs can be a shock to the system for some people. You would just be getting over it and then going back to the bad stuff and have to go through withdrawal again 2 weeks later. Secondly, as pre-diabetic you want to give yourself the best chance possible to avoid a full blown diagnosis and have a normal reading next time you are tested. It doesn’t happen overnight. Next, if you do this diet for 2 weeks and lose say 6 or 7lbs (based on your current rate of loss) you can easily put that back on over the following 2 weeks.
  I think for some new people on this site you see us old-timers being really strict and cutting carbs down to 20g. You dont have to do this. Just try to stick to the 800 cals and dont eat ‘white’ carbs – potatoes, pasta, rice, breakfast cereals, processed foods, bread etc. There are plenty of carbs in veg and in fruit, as you discovered. Sweet potato is potato dress in another style – the key is the word ‘sweet’, apples are high in carbs but not forbidden, just be aware. If a fruit is very sweet you will know it, mangoes, papaya, pineapple, cherries, grapes, bananas, give them a miss for now. You dont have to turn this into a keto diet as long as you get plenty of plant based foods and some good carbs. Think about eating beans (not baked beans in tomato sauce), chickpeas, nuts, seeds, aubergine, celeriac, cauliflower mash etc. There are lots of resources here and a good place to start is the dietdoctor.com for advice about high carb foods, alternatives and recipes. Finally, if you are on BSD or the Fast800 then now is not the time to start messing around with it. Get your head around one diet plan and, when you are ready you can chop and change about. By the way, I dont know anyone who has done the MATADOR diet on here although there are people into intermittent fasting or Time Restricted Eating. Good luck.

• posted by SunnyB
  on 8 Mar 2019 at 16:19

  

  Hi Pippilina – MATADOR is new to me, so without further research I wouldn’t like to comment on it specifically, other than to say trying to do both Fast 800 and MATADOR together is probably not the way to go. If you plan to do the FAST 800, I’d say stick with it properly for longer than two week and the longer you stick with it, the better your body will adjust and your palate will change. Chopping and changing every two weeks will hinder this process and as S-G says, in the two weeks off, any weight lost in the previous two weeks could easily be gained back.

  Which ever route you choose to go, I wish you success.

• posted by Pippilina
  on 8 Mar 2019 at 18:20

  

  Thank you. The MATADOR trial that Michael Mosley mentions in the book had really good success- the 2 week on 2 week off group lost more at both short and long term stages than the group that dieted solidly. That’s what the book says anyhow! Hmmm… maybe it was different kind of diet. (pgs 145-146)

• posted by JGwen
  on 8 Mar 2019 at 19:45

  

  Hi, One of the things I like about this forum is that we are free to discuss all different WoE and the latest research.
  I haven’t seen the new book, so I had to look MATADOR up. – As I suspected, it is calorie counting, and doesn’t appear to track macros. There is a lot of research that if you restrict calories, but do not restrict carbs you will loose some weight but long term, you will also cause your metabolic rate to slow down. – You may have heard of the Greatest Loser, a TV show where people compete on weight loss through diet and exercise. This is one of the examples where they have been able to follow the long term results of dieting they never hold reunions, because the only person who is not larger than when they started is the guy who had surgery.
  I would recommend looking at the take a look at this thread, there is a link I posted about a year ago to a podcast by Dr Bikman, that will explain why we are so focused on ketosis. If you keep your carbs low, so that your insulin levels are low then your body can access your fat stores easily and you do not risk lowering your metabolic rate.
  I know it sounds hard facing 8 weeks of this WoE. I remember how daunting I found it when I started. – If you currently have a high carb diet, then I would suggest cutting out the big white (rice, bread, pasta, sugar, pizza) first then once you are used to that you could start to cut back further on the carbs to get into ketosis. I promise you, after a while your tastes change and your appetite reduces so that it becomes much easier to stay with this way of eating.

• posted by Pippilina
  on 8 Mar 2019 at 20:22

  

  Thanks, J Gwen. I was doing Paleo before, so pretty low carb but obvioulsy abundant food. I am in mild ketosis on the wee sticks. It sounds like you are saying people eat this way (800 cals) for ever??? I thought it was 8 weeks on it and the Med diet…?

• posted by M2019
  on 8 Mar 2019 at 20:51

  

  Hi Pippilina,

  I had started this WOE after quite a chunky carb bender after giving up meat, moving to Italy and learning to bake really good sourdough bread….

  If I look back at my first week, I definitely eased in a bit – but any time I did have a cheeky additional food, I kept the portion small and factored it in to my allowance of 50g carbs / 800 cals (after taking into account exercise which some consider a no-no here). I also made sure I did two walks a day and in total am doing 10k steps. I think my body was so grateful for the whopper reduction in carbs, I stayed in ketosis even on days where my carbs nudged 60g. In the following weeks it became easier and easier to reduce my carbs and the itchy ooh I need/want something feelings left quite quickly.

  I agree with the above that jumping around is probably not going to help. If its the feeling ick thats driving it, I would suggest you have a small not too bad something or other to ease the cold turkey. Be careful about what you choose as you dont want to trigger a bender. Perhaps have a yummy fat or protein based something that lifts your calories a little but won’t send your BG soaring.

  Feeling awful is tough to use as a motivator to stick with something however this plan and how you feel really does get better. In the meantime perhaps its about finding something that works for you that keeps you moving forward at a slightly slower pace without the awful feelings. A little extra fatty or protein calories, counting your carbs and making them count on the things you want, even if its a very very small amount. And of coure drinking water like a trooper.

  Finally ! I found logging on My Fitness Pal really helpful and a bit addictive and a cracking mug of tea with creamy (oat) milk does wonder when feeling a bit grotty or rumbly.

  Wishing you every success !

• posted by JGwen
  on 9 Mar 2019 at 01:07

  

  There are a wide range of people on the forums, from newcomers to people who had a lot to loose and chose to do repeated rounds of the BSD and now maintain by staying low carb and stay on the forums to provide a helping hand to people starting out.

• posted by alliecat
  on 9 Mar 2019 at 11:27

  

  Hello, Pippalina, and WELCOME! We aren’t advocatin9 for stayin9 on the Fast800 for a lifestime 🙂 What we
  are sharin9 with you is the benefit of our own experience in losin9 a 9reat deal of wei9ht, and keepin9 it
  off lon9 term. As J9wen says, if you commit to this, your tastes do absolutely chan9e over time, and the
  bad carbs no lon9er have any allure, so it’s no hardship to avoid them. I’ve been in maintenance close
  to 2 years, after losin9 140lbs. It took me 10 months to accomplish this. The way forward after reachin9
  tar9et wei9ht is to slowly increase your calories each week, keepin9 a careful eye on the carbs, until you
  approach your TDEE (total daily ener9y expenditure). That’s different for each of us, and it is known as
  “reverse dietin9”. It quickly becomes obvious what level of carbs we can consume each day without
  re9ain. I hope this is helpful? Best to you in whatever you decide to do!

  Allie

• posted by JGwen
  on 9 Mar 2019 at 17:25

  

  Hi Pippalina,
  I wrote a more detailed reply earlier today, but suffered from the disappearing post syndrome again. – Sometimes after you hit submit it looks like the post has been processed, but it hasn’t quite completed and if you close the page at that point it gets lost.

  I would guess that the posts on the forum represent only those who struggle to follow the BSD, have a lot to loose, lack confidence, or tend to be those who like to discuss the science behind it. Those who adapt easily to following the BSD and reach their goals having read the book may read the posts on the forum for extra information but are unlikely to post questions. 🙂

  This may be the reason for the focus on low carbs on the forum, which isn’t in the book. – There is a lot of research that the curve generated by plotting the impact of insulin on fat burning is very steep. – A very small increase in insulin has a large impact in preventing the body accessing fat stores. – If someone is Insulin Resistant they will have a high level of background insulin even if they have not eaten anything, and will generate higher levels of insulin in response to any carbs in their diet in comparison to someone who is not IR. Hence why some people have to go under 20g of carbs. Over time, by staying low carb and how long it takes will be different depending on each persons circumstances, someones tolerance for carbs will improve, but if we go back to the habits that caused us to put the weight on in the first place we are just going to put weight on again. Even for elite athletes without any weight issues the advice for using low carb to maintain performance is to stay in the 50g to 100g range.

• posted by sunshine-girl
  on 9 Mar 2019 at 21:57

  

  JGwen, after you have pressed submit and you want to go back to the main list of topics you must use the Forum button followed by one of the drop downs. What you have probably done is hit the back arrow key at the top left of your page which takes you back to the main list but it is as if you had never posted ie it returns you to the state you left before you typed and submitted your post.

• posted by JGwen
  on 10 Mar 2019 at 04:00

  

  Thanks for the suggestion Sunshine-girl, but I had a number of pages up in my browser on different websites. I replied to a post on this forum, hit the submit button, and pulled up a different browser page to get on with my work. – I wasn’t using back arrows or browsing on the forum.
  I have found that there is occasionally a time lag between hitting the submit button and the submission being completed and if I close the page during that time the post gets lost.

• posted by Pippilina
  on 10 Mar 2019 at 08:27

  

  Thanks very much everyone for all the advice. Things are definitely easier now,. Not sure what I’ll do re MATADOR, part of me quite fancies experimenting….

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