https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?mc=adglobal&mcid=facebook&subid1=AU&subid=pay&mccr=MC2&ad-keywords=NYTGAustraliaNews&_r=0

Just read this (long) article in the NYTimes. I am on week 12 of the BSD and I’ve lost 14.5kgs which is great but I am having a plateau (the second) at the moment although I am still eating less than 800 cals most days. I am hungrier than I have ever been and finding the whole thing really depressing and hard going. I still have a lot (over 20kgs) to lose and this article (which has proper science in it) has made me think its impossible to keep it off. I cannot live or work being this hungry all the time. Any advice?

I don’t know if you have read through some of the threads on here, but there are plenty of examples of folk losing weight and keeping it off. Are you on the diet to reduce your blood sugar levels as well as your weight? If your BS is OK, why not try toughing it out for a little longer and then relaxing a bit. I guess that nothing works exactly the same for everyone – I have lost weight but my BS – whihc is what I am far more concerned over – remains stubbornly virtually static – I’d much happier of it was the other way around!
What was the basis of the article? Was it based on randomised trials, or on theory, or what?
Mike

Learning how to manage hunger is vital for losing weight, and I understand now also for keeping it off according to that very interesting article.

We all need to find our personal daily eating routine that we can live with. For me, I can fast all day but once I start to eat it is difficult to stop. I try to build my routine around that by having a couple of eggs at around 11, and then nothing until supper at 5:30. At 9 I have Greek yogurt, kefir and about 1/3 cup of bran. That way I am minimizing the time that I am fighting the urge to eat. If I must snack I eat raw cabbage, which is filling and tasty.

You are probably different that me so a routine that works for you would look different.

As far as that article goes, those subjects were extreme, and the process they went through to lose weight was extreme. Nobody could be expected to continue that. As for the low metabolism after fasting or weight loss that never recovers to former levels I can’t comment. Hopefully some way can be found to counteract that.

The thing is, people do lose weight, and they do keep it off. So it is a realistic goal.

The BSD has two sides to it. A diet to lose fat, and then a new way of eating to keep the fat off. The first part is hard and I suspect the second part is hard too. I am just starting the BSD way of life and I have had to resort to fast days to avoid fat gain, mostly because I have overindulged in hot cross buns and beer for 2 weekends straight. Worth it too I might add.

I would like to hear from somebody who achieved their target weight a year ago, and learn from them about the challenges we face.

Jan

Christie you say you are always hungry – are you eating enough fat and drinking enough? Also if you are going under 800 cals most days you are most likely not eating enough overall. Check out LindaA on the 20th Feb starters for guidance on ratio of nutrients which may be of help. This way of eating/life is doable and enjoyable(!😀) you just have to work out the best way of doing it for you. And realise that once you are where you want to be, and you WILL get there if you stick with it, you can’t go back to the old ways without gaining the weight back.

As for people who have maintained for over a year – the first one that springs to mind is Captain Lynne – check out her posts, inspirational. And there are other ‘maintainer’ threads on here, use the search box at the top right of the page to seek them out.

Interesting article and one that pretty much replicates the findings in a TV documentary a few weeks ago, looking at super slimmer’s from various avenues that had all put the weight back on plus more (except one who now does nothing but exercise all day). From my own experience, I lost 4st in weight, stopped eating sugar and grains for good and have kept carbs under 50g/day, yet once I stopped calorie counting and weighing every day, put 3st back on over approx. 3yrs. Part of that, I believe, is overdoing the fat. If you don’t eat sugar or carbs then you have to eat full fat, so a cheesecake, instead of containing 200cal/portion will now contain 500cals/portion.
I suspect that most of the losers doing BSD that have kept it off, have done so because they still mindfully eat and keep an eye on the scales. It has to be treated as a WOL, not a diet. You cannot go back to giving into food cravings and binge eating and expect to keep the weight off, no matter what your metabolic rate is. Lots seem to have an upper trigger weight that means they start the BSD diet to lose it again before the weight gets out of hand. Those that don’t exert some form of ongoing control, I suspect put the weight back on and are never heard of again.

Leptin control seems to be one of the key drivers affecting weight loss and, as carbs control Leptin levels, staying away from the carbs long term will help this. Hence this is one of the reasons why the BSD WOL works better than most. Lyle McDonald goes into in more detail here http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/set-points-settling-points-and-bodyweight-regulation-part-2.html/

When I first started out with no sugar HFLC, I did quite a bit of research into set points and Lyle suggests regular refeeds are necessary to help reset the body’s metabolism so that it doesn’t fight so hard to go back to its old weight. Lots of people use the potato hack (the theory being that pure starch helps reset the leptin levels and hence the body’s metabolic rate doesn’t go into free fall). I have done this a couple of times in the past and at the time it seemed to work but it needs to be done regularly as part of a mindful eating plan and to be honest, over the last 12 months or so I have forgotten to be mindful. Too many calories in, no matter where they come from, will always equal fat gain.

At the end of the day, true weight loss is all about mindfulness. You choose to lose the weight and only you choose to follow actions that put it back on again. Joining the lovely BSDers has not taught me anything new. Like I said, I have been doing this WOL long before it became popular, when everyone thought if you mentioned sugar was the problem, not fat, then you were barmy. But what it has reminded me of is that counting calories and maintaining an exercise regime is a necessary part of daily activity if you have spent all of your life over eating.

My late husband was tall and slim and only ate when necessary because he had always followed his body and was not particularly driven by food . My three (now grown up) children are also slim as they have got his slim genes and only ever eaten when hungry so they don’t continually pick all the time. Whereas I was taught to clear my plate and food was always a large part of social life as a child, so to get out of that sort of ingrained habit is always going to be difficult. If you become sober after being an alcoholic, you can’t drink again – 1 sip will put you back on the road to ruin. Same with overeating.

Being here on this forum has allowed me to get my mind back in synch with my body. Love and support for everyone flows from it constantly and it is full of gentle reminders, if you stray by chance from the path. That’s the long-term way to win the war, you have to forever be mindful of what is going in, no matter what the source and this forum and all the lovely people on here help you do that, but you have to be prepare that it is for life not just a short interlude before you go back to life before BSD.

One other thing I forgot to mention, fasting helps the body control and repair itself as well as ensuring a period when fat burning can take place uninterrupted by the process of digestion (assume the fast is for a reasonable length of time and the muscles are not full of glycogen from carbs). It also ensures ingestion has not occur for a period of time hence keeps the calories low.

I suspect this also aids the body’s metabolic rate as part of the repair process, although I have yet to find any research done on this. However, I would bet that none of the people in the article you mention have practised fasting on an ongoing basis. Fasting requires mindfulness. That is the key . I suggest you check out the ‘Random mindfulness hints and tips’ thread as part of your journey and good luck, don’t give up.

Draig goch I am slowly coming to the realisation that I have to treat the way I think about processed foods and sugar the way an alcoholic treats alcohol.

I don’t at all mean to underplay or trivialise the damage that alcoholism does, I sadly know from friends how destructive it is to the person themselves and those around them.

But I am starting to feel that in the same way as an alcoholic will always be “in recovery” and not able to enjoy a drink now and then like “a normal person”, so it is with me. Many’s the time over the past year when I’ve been doing bsd for a few weeks and then had “just one chocolate” or “just one slice of pizza”. And before you know it there I am up to my snout in doughnuts and creme eggs for a month.

It may be possible further down the line for me to occasionally enjoy a slice of cake or a bit of pizza without totally falling off the wagon – certainly I’ve been following Captain Lynn’s experiments with great interest! – but for now at least my response to small amount of sugar is just too strong.

I do also feel that with weight loss, there’s an element of goal setting and visible progress that is extremely motivating – much less motivating to be aiming at simply staying the same once youre in maintenance. That’s why having people who lost weight and maintained it hanging around this forum is so great and inspiring. It was definitely a big factor in the fact that even though I stopped losing weight over the past year, I didnt put it back on again.

Hmmmm. *Pours self another lemon and ginger tea*

melb100 I think you have hit the nail on the head. Sugar and carbs ARE like alcohol and being a sugar/carb addict is, I believe, no different to being an alcoholic. When I first started on the no sugar/v low carb WOE I treated myself in the same way. Say NO all the time as I knew one slip would be enough. Now I’m not remotely interested in sugar or carbs (except berries and 85-90% chocolate ) but full abstenance was the only way I knew not to fall off the bandwagon to start with

Melb100 and ddraig_goch – I am in exactly the same position. Full abstinence is the only way forward for me. I have been in denial about my addiction to carbs and sugar since 1969 – which is why this is the first time I have ever maintained my weight loss (4 months on 10th
April) and have actually lost nearly 4lb more since I reached maintenance on 10th December.

I absolutely love this way of eating now – the food we can eat is varied, tasty and appetising.

KrysiaD Congratulations on getting to your goal weight and more importantly maintaining it. You are living proof that with abstinence and mindfulness works.

Chrissie63 if you need any more convincing, just look at KrysiaD’s extra 4lb. It does take continuing effort but you maintain if you care to.

Some very helpful advice on here. I am reaching the maintenance stage having got BS into non diabetic range of 38 mmol from 75 mmol and lost 20kg in 3 months. I think the ability to personalise the plan has helped both myself and my wife. I have set small steps and targets along the way but importantly upped my exercise and cut the white carbs. I have loved the change of life style and like ddraigh says the carb are addictive like alcohol to alcoholics. For me the change is about taking control of my journey and not listening to the NHS eat well advice. I think each person needs to have an aim/focus. As a visual learner, I had to buy new clothing when I found I could step out of my old stuff without undoing it. I have kept a shirt and pair of trousers from the old me and use the holes in the belt buckle as a quick guide to weight. It helps to have these markers or whatever you want to call it for the bad days, and there were a few on my journey, and to not beat themselves up if they have a blip. You know what it takes to head the right direction you just need the support, that forums like this provide, to get back on track. “It doesn’t go on quickly so it will take time to reverse it” advice from a doctor. This was the same Dr who recommended the 5 x 2 diet instead of meds. Good luck everyone with your individual journeys.

Hi Crissie63 and thread writers! I am going to throw out an idea that I have floated several times on these threads — and that is, for all of us educated, erudite, critical-thinking, self-evaluating, internally-searching, over-achieving, report-reading types….um….DON’T THINK SO MUCH!!!!😜😜😜
I think putting our critical-thinking/evaluative self on “hold” for a bit (long enough to get success with the BSD diet and into maintenance) can be very helpful and will free you from the constant mental attention to “am I doing it right”, “is it going to work”, “why isn’t it working faster”, “will it work forever”…the very mind-created narratives that can create frustration and failure.
The folk we are losing from these threads (and sadly it appears, from the BSD) are often the hyper-critical/very intelligent who are turning their obvious intelligence on themselves — getting lost and frustrated by the way the BSD is actually “going”, in contrast to a very carefully researched mental plan.
We cannot know what exactly our bodies are doing or will do every day into the future.
We can only recognize that certain ways of eating are better for your weight and health and then try to stay THERE.
(Now don’t read anymore articles like this one — just go for a walk instead) 😀

Californiagirl I like your style. Unfortunately I also like to ask why and evaluate (in a positive way). If you don’t, then you can end up going down a path forever that doesn’t work or ignoring the bits that do work and giving up. But I agree, its not for everyone and if it always leads you to self criticism then you shouldn’t do it.

I like to read these sort of articles, and find them useful in reinforcing my determination to not become one of them. In the case of the Biggest Lower shows though, they lose the weight in a sort of intense boot camp environment and you can understand that that will never be possible to weave that weight loss method into a normal life, indeed on the documentary the only one who had kept the weight off was the one who had become a fitness instructor and still trained all the time while snacking on Haribo. The one that made me sit up and pay attention though was one of the guys who had put weight back on was investigating some product to speed up his metabolism. I am currently 2.5 months into maintenance, two pounds under my target weight and eating a normal if generally healthy BSD style 2100 calories a day. My metabolism doesn’t seem to be affected at all, as in rough figures that is what I should be burning. All you have to do is when the period of calorie restriction finishes is increase your calories slowly and gradually, I used 50 calories more every day and kept tracking everything, including reintroducing small amounts of BSD contraband, I think Krysia just eats the same as the diet but with larger portions of cheeses and nuts etc, and it is clear that her metabolism is similarly effective.

Hey californiagirl I like your style too. I’m new in the forum only just beginning week 3 fast 800, but the thing that struck me forcibly is the number of very introspective posts. I am trained in biological science and find the whole sugar/carb thing and the endocrinology of it fascinating, but as for my diet I just try to get on with it. Roll with it! Yesterday I was fretting over cravings – yet today I only ate after a 24 hour space with no effort. Who knows?

I love this forum! Thank you all for your concern and kind words and for the great support this site offers. I agree Californiagirl, I am a thinker (doing my PhD in Literature) and a researcher by trade and inclination! I like very much to understand ‘why’, although I came across this article by accident. It has seemed to explain the change in what I am feeling and what my body is doing. I have found the BSD easy (after the first few days) and the food is so good! I am not particularly tempted by carbs and don’t have a sweet tooth usually so this hunger and cravings are unusual. And frustrating!!
I am comforted however by the (belated) realisation that these people went through a MUCH more extreme process than we are on the BSD. Poor buggers – to have your personal struggles rolled out for ‘entertainment’ is barbaric beyond belief.
I can’t promise to stop reading things but I will try harder to stop catastrophising!

Hi Ddraig_goch, Mixnmatch and Runrascal — goes to show you that everyone has their own unique “take” on it! One thing I have finally figured out at my advanced age (LOL) is that I don’t always THINK like everyone else and that is ok — if it helps to read that kind of article, then of course, it makes sense to read it, but if it just leaves you flat on your back like Chrissie63, then throw your smart phone on the couch and escape all that INFORMATION by going outside.
I guess I have just got to the point that I JUST DON’T CARE about all the articles and research and who knows what — I only care that I keep the simple BSD principles in mind (and I follow the research with low carb) and I just try to follow it day by day. I’ve been maintaining since last June and like you, Mixnmatch and Krysia, I’m eating a decent amount of food (probably averaging about 2200 calories on a non-workout day, maybe 2600 on a workout day) and I’ve not gained weight.
So I hold no truck with the “diminished metabolism” idea.
What a terrible story to push off onto people who are trying to lose weight. And what were their protocols? And who measured their metabolism? What machine was used? Was it calibrated correctly? And was it peer reviewed? Were they hospitalized or was it anecdotal? I mean, come on!!!!!!
I think, try the diet on for yourself, give yourself a fair trial of several months and then evaluate your situation for yourself, calmly and thoughtfully.
Be your OWN best expert. Who knows your body and your mind better than the person living inside of you?

You are a wise woman Californiagirl! At my own advanced age, I had hoped for more wisdom, but apparently all I have is education!! Thanks for your support.

We can be too smart for our own good, Chrissie63! Hang in there! Hope to hear that it is working well for you soon!
Julia

After losing 30kg and reaching my goal weight of 63kg last September, I have been doing a ketogenic diet to maintain. I increased my fats only and if anything reduced my carbs lower than 50g per day and kept my protein the same at around 60 – 90g per day depending on my exercise level.

After September, I kept losing and got down to 55.9kg in January all the while increasing my fat intake as I wanted my body to find its own optimal level.

My weight then started shifting back up and I now seem to float around 59-60kg which for a 5’6 1/2″ woman, I am very happy with giving me a BMI of around 21-22.

My last HDL cholestrol level was 2.8 and my triglycerides 0.5 which are perfect (so much for the dogma that eating saturated fat raises your cholesterol!)

My glucose levels were last measured at 5.3 and my insulin 7 (under 10 is good). I’ve never been diabetic nor had insulin resistance.

I throw intermittent fasting in on a regular basis and change it around to suit my hunger levels. If I’m hungry, I eat, if not, I fast, sometimes for up to 24 hours and this is whilst I continue to do my bush walking (sometimes up to 20km in a day).

I follow Megan Ramos (from Jason Fung’s practise) suggestion of ‘changing it up’ rather than following the same eating plan day in day out as I find that it keeps the weight more stable and if I creep over the 60kg for any reason, it’s easy to come back down.

The following 2 podcasts by the 2KetoDudes are how both Megan explains it;
https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/2-keto-dudes/id1086736152?mt=2&i=1000382827769
and about the body’s metabolic rate works;
https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/2-keto-dudes/id1086736152?mt=2&i=1000384194408
Well worth listening to if you want a more thorough explanation.
It’s working for me and from someone who has been a yo yo dieter all her life, I’m sticking to what works!
Cheers
Linda

I read once somewhere that our bodies fat cells have a memory…. and it can trigger regaining the weight.
Well, no doubt there is some truth in it but if we don’t change our mindset and permanently change our WOE it stands to reason we won’t keep off the weight. After all, wasn’t it the way we lived before that kept us that larger weight?
I’ve learnt to love this way of eating, I feel so ill if I slip off the wagon and have a carbfest. I did it last week and had a dreadful headache. It was quite a shock to remember I used to have a headache like that every day.
Chrissie63, can I suggest you do at least eat your full 800kcal a day? It helped staved off the plateaus for me.

Thank you Californiagirl for your words of wisdom. I know I read too much and over think it. I watch youtube videos by Dr Jason Fung regularly when I’m at home. I find them very helpful.

I absolutely agree that the BSD doesn’t mess up our metabolism. After the weight loss stage of the BSD I gingerly started increasing the calories and to my amazement I didn’t put weight on.

What I have been doing is to eat more on hungry days and less on non-hungry days. So basically eating to appetite. I log it all on fat secret – not to control my eating, but just to get an idea of calories eaten as sometimes it does feel as though I am eating loads but it comes in at around 2000 calories. I try not to drop below 1200 calories on non-hungry days because I want to keep building lean muscle mass and also I don’t want to lose too much more weight as I am 5′ 6″.

What is really interesting is that when I was on the losing weight stage of the BSD – I had to drop to 800 calories to lose the weight. But now on maintenance my weight will start dropping if I have a few days on 1200 calories – so maybe my metabolism is working better now than it every did.

Wow…..I have had a terrible day, not diet wise life wise. But I come on here and you girls keep me motivated. You have an answer for everything, talk about done it, got the tee shirt its you ladies. Thank you so much……you are fantastic.

KrysiaD, its comforting to hear about your experience at maintenance. I believe Mixnmatch has had a similar experience.

I suspect the elongated period of time at low calories, as well as the fasting that occurs if your follow the 16/8 rule, allows the body (and hence the metabolism) to heal. It also allows your mind to get back in sync with the body and thus be able to act appropriately to the feeling full signals. The trick then of course is to keep up the good work, even after a prolonged period of maintenance, and not turn your back on this WOL in the future.

ddraig_goch – I think that makes perfect sense. My body is healing in all sorts of ways – not just the liver and pancreas so it is not surprising that my metabolism has improved.

My mind has definitely got back into sync with my body. Before the BSD I had never experienced a time where I wasn’t struggling with the sugar and carb addiction. Since 1st May when I started the BSD I have had chance to actually feel what being hungry or full actually feels like with no cravings for the bad stuff (which actually stopped within the first couple of weeks). I think it has taken me quite a long time to trust the signals I am getting – which is probably why I am still tracking what I eat on fat secret.

Of course I do know that I can never turn my back on this WOL in the future. To do so would very quickly take me back to out of control diabetes and insulin injections. But I get so much enjoyment from this way of eating. I absolutely adore really good Stilton or Parmesan cheese, Fage yoghurt, ground flaxseeds, brazil nuts, walnuts, almonds, meridian peanut butter, cream in my coffee, olives, advocados, Romaine Lettuce, mushrooms, white cabbage stir fried in butter, 90% Lindt chocolate……. the list goes on and on.

Ha ha KrysiaD……..I also get so much more enjoyment from this way of eating. Like everything you have written except Romaine lettuce, I don’t really drink coffee and I have not eaten any chocolate since the 1st October. I ‘snack’ on brazil, walnuts, almonds and sometimes a teaspoonful of meridian peanut butter. I dare not snack on olives as I would eat the jar and I love stir fried cabbage. Life before 1.10.16 was ice cream, crisps and loads of bread! That was in a former life.

As you say KrysiaD, the list goes on. My problem last time was not falling off the wagon as such but not listening to my body, thus eating far more calories than I should have been (that’s the trouble with this food, it all tends to be very high in calories). This time around I shall fast periodically to aid healing and listening.

Fairyface – your former life sounds very much like my former life.

ddraig_goch – I think that I have the same worry about this food which is why I am still entering everything on fat secret so that I pick up any problems very quickly. I did have a blip with double cream a month or so ago, but very quickly picked up that I was using too much.

Its just occurred to me, that far from depressing, this thread is very positive. If ever there was a wrong title, its this one. The original article does not reflect the BSD WOL and therefore is nothing to be depressed about.

Absolutely right Ddraig-goch! I actually haven’t read any really depressing threads here except maybe when we “lose” someone who was doing so well but somehow got overwhelmed by the whole situation/life. I still wonder about Nedds mum and some others who just stopped posting. If anyone reading this is one of those folk — you can ALWAYS come back with no recriminations. We’ve ALL been there/done that so you will find a sympathetic audience here! 😊

Yes, I apologise. I should have called it – “Need Support from the Fantastic People Out There”!
Thank you all once again.
I am going to have a week or so off plan (not carbs tho) to give my metabolism a chance to reset. I am never giving this up and going back to insulin and not sleeping and generally being miserable.
I am wearing a pair of jeans today that are a size smaller than last week. I keep thinking “oh, they are just a bigger make” but perhaps that’s not true?

Between June and November last year I dropped from size 18 to size 10/12, so it absolutely could be a real drop in size. Just be careful with your transition back to eating more, try a couple of days at 1000, then a couple at 1200 etc. This should help your metabolism to adjust gradually. When you get close to your TDEE slow down as well, but keep adding more calories. Your body will tell you when it is enough, and then stay at that level. After that if you still have more to lose just do another 8 weeks, or 4 weeks, or 2 weeks then onto 5:2 etc. The choice is yours.

On another thread Verano alluded to a study of the ‘the ‘Spanish Ketogenic Mediterranean Diet’

http://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1475-2891-7-30

It suggests what all us BSDers already know: ‘many studies have found that ketogenic diets are healthier since they help to …… diminish metabolic efficiency, induce metabolic activation of thermogenesis,…..Contrary to past opinions, high carbohydrate diets may be associated with…. metabolic syndrome.’

The diet was based around 30ml of olive oil, 200-400ml of red wine and 3 portions of 200g each of green vegetables and salad per day with 4 days of fish protein only and 3 days of other types of protein. Participants were allowed only a max of 30g carbs per day (protein amounts were unlimited).

My mainstay fats are currently coconut oil, home made mayonnaise (made from olive oil) and olives. Green veg and salad is sadly lacking (approx. 150g/day). I have bookmarked the link and when I get into a really big stall (2 weeks plus) I think I will give it a go for 4 weeks just to mix things up.

Also KrysiaD posted a great link on April 12 on the Demon Hot Cross bun post — Sweden adopts new food guidelines and…drumroll…they are low carb/high fat.
So, we get to eat eggs for Easter! And leave the choccy bunnies for the children!🌷 (Who probably shouldn’t eat them either but..)
Happy weekend all!