Question about "good carbs"

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  • posted by WindyJulz

    Ok, so i have been eating this way since April 2020 and lost 22lbs. Excellent. But I still have days when i struggle and I’m a bit sad about food. Not cos i want all the sugary stuff from before but because I’m a little hungry and my mind is on food a lot still.
    Anyhoo, I bought the Fast800 Recipe book, a bit for some more info and a bit for some inspiration.

    Here the query – since April, when i read the Fast 800 book, I have been eating the BSD / Fast 800 way and for me that has meant no rice, pasta, bread cake etc. But I have also avoided oats, beans, lentils, bananas, most fruits fruit (other than berries and 2 apples a week), dried fruit, all flour (other then twice ive used coconut flour for ‘bakes’).
    So I have been quite surprised when reading the Fast800 recipe book that so so many of the dishes have oats, beans, lentils or fruit in them and some with whole meal flour….. makes me wonder if I am doing something wrong and maybe why i’m feeling a little blue and hungry??
    Trouble is, I havent really missed these things and by keeping them out of the meals i keep calories lower and therefore can have bigger portions or a yogurt for pudding……. but of course, this could be an issue in itself as its not really improving my portion control and i really like a full plate.

    Thoughts? Do folk stick to the recipes and / or regularly include oats and pulses? I’m scared to let these creep in if i’m honest. Still struggling with my last couple of pounds to goal….. so now isnt the time to include them but… hmmmm.
    Puzzled WindyJulz!

  • posted by JGwen

    Hi WindyJulz,

    The basis principle of the Fast 800 is a low carb low calorie diet for an 8 or maybe upto a 12 week period. –

    There is a large amount of research, the one that most clearly makes the point it the study following participants in the biggest loser program, that if your carb intake is high enough to keep you out of ketosis then your body will react to long term to calorie restriction diets by reducing your metabolic rate.

    Those of us who had a lot of weight to discard at the end of the first 8 to 12 weeks used to ask what next, that’s where the interest in the research into science comes in. And why I think this forum is so good because we are free to share that information.

    In my opinion there are three options at any one time.

    1. When you want to discard more weight, keep carbs low enough to be in ketosis. – This is either 20g or use some method to measure your carb limit. I know there are some on the forum who believe that 20g is too low and the advice should be 50g is fine if you are loosing weight. – My experience is that even after a few years of following this WoE my personal limit is 25g of carbs anymore and I am out of ketosis. – Insulin is like a switch, when its low your body can access your fat stores, when its high you can not and if you count calories but have high insulin levels your body reduces your metabolic rate. – Its not easy to measure insulin, but it is easy to measure if your body is using ketones for fuel.

    2. When you want to step off the wagon for a while, or when you get to the point where you want to maintain, then the secret is to spend most of the time in ketosis and occasionally, (birthdays, celebrations) join in whole heartedly.

    3. An alternative to staying in ketosis and eating each day, is Intermittent fasting (not time restricted eating, 36 to 42 hour fasts).

    Above all ——- Don’t ever fall for the hype about calorie counting and moving more being the solution. Even if it does work to loose weight in the short term it does damage your metabolic rate in the long term.


    I personally found it interesting that Dr MM is getting the people on the program to test for ketones. – Because he clearly keeps both foot inside the boundary of the “accepted” position by the NHS, I think it means that there is growing acceptance within the official system that controlling insulin levels is the key to success with weight loss.

    However, while the pee sticks are an easy way to test without causing confusion in the short term and make good images for a TV program, they only work short term. I use one of the cheap breathalyzers the AT6000 to monitor if there are ketones in my breath. But I am virtually t total.

  • posted by Squidge

    I do eat beans and lentils, as they provide protein, are filling, and I like them. I also have some brown rice, oats and other whole grains (although not as flour). I’d find the diet too restrictive without.

    We’re all different, so I think you’ll have to experiment to find what works for you, both in terms of keeping the weight off, and being able to stick to it. I know what you mean about a full plate.

    If the meal looks small, it’s easy to tell ourselves it isn’t enough, even if we do feel full after it. I find it helpful to have one slightly bigger portion than to have two courses, most of the time. It also helps to put a handful of fresh greens on the plate before adding the rest of the food. Rocket or watercress are my favourites. Very few calories and carbs, but full of vitamins and flavour.

  • posted by freester

    A similar situation to you, but I started on the BSD book and recipe book. Both of these use pulses, Quinoa, Bulgar wheat and occasional brown rice (where MM has been vocal about the cook cool reheat to eliminate the starch). As well as Oats. There’s a good discussion in the BSD recipe book about Oats, the least processed the better so best are Steel Cut, then Jumbo, Rolled, but instant oats a no no. There are also a couple of recipes using Rye and Spelt flour – again less processed than white.

    Like you I also bought the Fast 800 recipe for more inspiration, and was surprised at the amount of recipes with Wholegrain Wheat, Flour and even a little Pasta!

    The BSD up to that point was so successful for me I decided to stay well clear or substitute these ingredients.
    The BSD and Fast800 and Life After Diet groups on Facebook are a little more zealous about what you should / shouldn’t eat and often blame stalling weightloss on some of these so called better carbs. I think it’s probably a personal thing and you have to find your own way with these foods that are somewhere in the middle. Personally I will have porridge made from Steel Cut oats at a weekend if I have time though I don’t think it’s as filling or satisfying as yoghurt. I very occasionally (no more than once a week) have a slice of Spelt and Rye bread from the BSD recipe book and an occasional small portion of brown rice with a chilli or curry.

  • posted by sunshine-girl

    I think having something occasionally is different to making them a regular feature of your daily intake. So for instance, when I make a chilli I have kidney beans but not loads, when I make a savoury mince I add maybe 20 or 30g of red dried lentils to pad out the meal for economy but I dont do that every week. I have a recipe for cottage pie made completely from lentils and topped with cauli (normal recipe says potatoes) but I know I cannot eat that at all, not even now and then. My favourite recipe of all time is the Spanish chickpea and chorizo soup (in the BSD diet book) and I make this in bulk. The chick peas come out at around 50g per meal and the chorizo is about 25g per meal. I eat it around once a week. by the way the recipe calls for a 200g can of chickpeas. that is not 200g of chickpeas – there is a difference because a can has water in it.
    Last night I tried an experiment of using chickpea flower, cream cheese and a little milk to make a cheesy cobbler topping for some savoury mince. The quanties per person were 25g chickpea flour and one tablespoon on cream cheese, dash of milk to bind. This made 2 little dumplings each. This morning my BG was up from a norm of around 85/90 to 115 and my weight was up 0.2 of a kg. Not massive but certainly not something I will be eating again in a hurry. Yes, you do have to work out for yourself how much you can tolerate going forward but in the first 8 weeks of the diet I stayed away from other carbs like quinoa, bulgar wheat etc only only at beans and pulses sparingly for the sake of my BG.

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