Hi all
Started the Fast 800 today. Did a ‘soft’ trial run last week and it was ok, so confident about doing it properly now over a 6 week+ period

I’ve read the book cover to cover, but had a couple of questions if you dont mind

— I understand that one of the key principles is that you want to get into ketosis, and to do that you have to stop snacking in between. However, are there ANY foods with zero (or close to zero) calories that I can snack on that won’t contribute to the 800 cal limit? Or am I breaking one of the golden rules? My brain hasn’t adjusted yet to not snack and Im worried I’ll feel deprived or just chewing on something!
— The book infers it, but to clarify – should I be eating full fat versions of everything, eg: milk, cheese, yoghurt etc?
— Are some cheeses nutritionally better than others? For example, I know goats cheese is easier to digest.
— Should I avoid chewing gum as the chewing / mastication might affect my metabolism?

Thanks you!
Lee

1. The aim is to get your carbs low enough, (most say aim for under 20g but some do ok with under 50g), this will get you nutritionally into ketosis and therefore if you had a low carb snack, you would be fine, not knowing yourself out of ketosis. I can’t think of any snacks that would be almost zero calories except some veg, but you need to be careful as they will be carbs.
2. Yes full fat everything, fat is good on this diet.
3. Harder cheeses tend to be lower in carbs (some have none), whereas softer ones will have some carbs to be aware of. Just check the labelling. Not sure about any other nutritional advantages.
4. If the chewing mastication has any affect it would be minor, I would be more concerned about whether the gum had any sugar content.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Very helpful

So based on my Carbs and Cals app, I did 920 cals, but 25g of carbs and 73g of protein (which I think the book says is the right amount). Based on what you’ve said then, I’ve made a reasonable start I think!

I generally dont eat breakfast until about 10-11am, so am going in on a 10hr TRE initially…

Having said all that, it’s 11pm and absolutely starving and a bit light headed. Better get to bed!

Re cheese – I can recommend halloumi (if you’re in UK, Tesco do a lovely one with chilli) and feta as they’re very versatile. I guess you could also go with paneer if you like indian dishes like saag paneer. Full fat greek yoghurt is also great in curries.

Another handy thing I’ve found after advise on this forum is Bare Naked Noodles and Bare Naked Rice; very low cal and low carb, great to bulk up a meal if you feel you need something a bit more filling.

Hope you feel a bit less light headed today!

Thanks @beegirl

I did recently stumble on those Bare naked noodles and was impressed, so will stock up on them. I guess half a packet with a main meal?

Didnt sleep particularly well last night but I think I went to bed too late (my usual 12pm) and my body got confused. Had to get up and have a cube of cheese and a baby tomato (very unlike me). Lesson learnt!

One other question – when starting out, did anyone else start going to the toilet (stools) more? It’s like my body is clearing itself out! (sorry for the detail :/)

Hi gypsymoth and welcome to the forum🤗. We are a very friendly lot and it is great to have newbies that we can guide and help. So I would like to touch in a couple things mentioned above.

JGwen is better than me at the protein bit but if I remember rightly then you need to calculate your protein with your ideal weight not the weight you are now. So when I started I was 18 stone but I would like to be 10 stone so that is what I worked it out(with a lot of help🤣) so my intake of protein is 50g per day. I think the ratio is 1g to 1lb but that might be wrong, JGwen or NikNak could you help me out with that please. Sorry. So I do in a day 20g carbs, 50g protein and 58-60g good fat and of course 800 calories, but sometimes I go under or slightly over on the cals but things seem to way themselves out over a week. It is low carb moderate protein and high in good fats. With this you need to add at least 2-3litres of water to your day as this helps flush your body it also replaces fat in fat cells and then eventually they disappear! Full fat in everything low fat is evil. If I get hungry I buy the little portions of cheddar which way 20g and have one of those or a small handful of nuts. Weigh everything! Keep your scales on your kitchen side and use them for all that you eat. Also measuring spoons and cups for oils and liquids, guessing is not good. Plan plan plan as much as you can and this will help with putting it into your fitness app before you actually consume the food and then if your macros don’t look right then you can adjust your meals to bring them into line.

If you have an off day please don’t beat yourself up as with this way of eating you can counteract some of the damage. You don’t have to stick to 20g carbs as your body maybe able to to take more, but only get those carbs from veg and berries never from rice pasta or bread and always try to keep it below 50g.

You have made a fantastic start and I am sure you will have an amazing journey with us. With regards to stools I can go between 1 and 4 times in any given day. I have also gone a day without going at all but have suffered no bloating or stomach cramps as I think I haven’t put it in so it doesn’t need to come out!🤣. Everyone’s body is different and my brother really got the you know what’s in his first couple of weeks and I would say that was his body getting rid of all the fat and rubbish he had been consuming up until he started this diet. So not uncommon at all to go more or even less. Peeing is a given too with all the water we drink.

You could come across carb flu in the beginning but don’t worry with enough fluids it will soon pass. I was lucky I didn’t but a lot of people do and they ride it out and within a few days it is gone. Don’t worry too much about it.

If you can stay away from alcohol I managed about three weeks without nothing at all but I was a massive binge drinker before I started this WOE so I still have the odd one now, but nowhere near the amount I consumed before. I am now in my 8th week and I have discarded 30.8lbs and 7 inches off of my stomach. My first stone came off in the first week and I was gobsmacked. It does slow but there are other factors to consider for that but I lose cm’s or inches every week and I don’t worry too much about the weight. So I have probably bored you now with my waffling. We also have a weekly thread that all of us are on so why don’t you jump on over there and join in as that is where we hang out. It is called one week at a time 21st of May. So all the best on your journey and welcome again hun! We are all here cheering each other on! Birdy 💞🦜

Hi I have had 40g of carbs today but the majority of them are from salad veg. Does that still count as they are ‘good’ carbs?

Hi angie as I said above everyone is different but you can have between 20g and 50g of the right carbs everyday and it will still be low carb. Hope this helps💞🦜

Yes, it counts. The 20-50 grams of carbs should only come from those sources since all the other ones — cereals, grains, sugars, starches, root veg — are not BSD-friendly.

I haven’t looked into working out my protein, so don’t actually know how that’s calculated. I know by the types of foods I eat that they are roughly in the right ballpark so I just focus on the carbs and calories.

And yes I have experienced that with the stools, it was worst in the first week and then was off/in the 2nd week, it seems to be starting to normalise now, hopefully. It’s just because a) the fat you are ingesting doesn’t all get digested (at least whilst you are adapting to the new fuel source) and it’s a natural loosener, b) your microbiome will be changing with the new diet so will take a bit of time to adapt.

A carb is still a carb no matter where it’s from, so it will still have the same affect. It’s only “good” because of the types of nutrients that are with it. 40g isn’t bad though, it’s recommended to get under 50g at least is what you have done.

A good formula for protein for most women is between .5 and .8 grams per kilo of goal weight. If you do a lot of weight training or muscle-intensive fitness, that number can stretch upwards to 1 gram per kilo.

Wow… such great responses. Thank you!

I’m a bit concerned about constantly measuring stuff – I’m quite a target oriented person so dont want too much stress about hitting a number. I will stick with small amount of good carbs, good quality protein and small portions… the Carbs and Cals app is useful I’ve found so far.

Thankfully my general eating is pretty good (imho). I’m obsessed with veg, drink very little beer these days since I turned gluten free, and love lentils etc. However, I am overweight and borderline pre-diabetic, so I need to take action. My downfall – I think – is bread and eating little bits of food between meals, including eating bits of the kid’s dinners!

The stools thing – body getting rid of fat etc – makes sense. Again, dont want to share too much detail but the stools are solid but a different consistency… something is already changing. Just hate the empty feeling after a movement tho. Guess the advice is… drink more water!

So… dinner approaches… will eat a bit later in my 10hr window than yesterday, have a cup of herbal tea after then hit the sack

Again, thanks for your support already. Appreciated

Some vegetables are very high in carbohydrates, as are lentils. Knowing what your real numbers are and making fact-based choices on portion control is key. I had to stop eating pulses altogether because I am insulin resistant and must keep my insulin levels rock-bottom in order lose weight and once, that was achieved, to maintain my health. So-called healthy carbohydrates were not, as it turned out, healthy for me. It’s a damn shame too, because I used to make a phenomenal lentil and Swiss chard soup. Oh well, one moves on.

Essie thank you for the protein bit! I knew I would get it wrong. I am still learning but I am glad it grabbed your eye as I know you will always put us on the straight and narrow. How have you been? and wow wow wow on your epic mountain moving today. BSD is a miracle if you ask me! I managed to paint my toenails without straining to reach over my tummy today and I wasn’t out of breath either which is great! Not quite the same as your mammoth task today but still a win for this WOE. Thanks again Essie 💞🦜

I remember when I discovered I could cut my own toenails for the first time in years. It was a huge NSV for me. My OH (who had done the cutting during the bad years) noticed right away and was so awed. Great day. Congratulations, Birdy! I hope you painted them fire engine red! 😀

Thank you Essie even the little things mean so much when you slim down. They are all obstacles we have to get over and when do it makes our hearts and shoulders lift🤗. I am happy as a clam 30lbs discarded since I started on the 1st of April. To me that is a huge accomplishment 🥳. I was going too but found a Hot Pink Dior one and thought why not! 😉

Hi,
I’m new to this as well, but I think I remember reading that the carbs that are listed as fibre (depending on where you live) can be deducted from the total carb count. Am I right? (I’m in the UK)

Puddy- sorry but no that’s an American thing, we already have it calculated for us in the uk so it’s total carbs here.

Hi Birdy, the forumla you are thinking for protein is 0.6 to 0.8g of protein per kg of Target weight. – Usually men are slightly more than women because its linked to muscle levels. So as E says a female weight lifter could cope with slightly more. – The reason for the limit is that too much protein also raises insulin levels which is what we want to avoid.
There is quite a growing band of research into autophagy because it is beneficial in dealing with cancer but also prevents loose skin during weight loss. Autophagy is when the body reuses dead and dying cells breaking them down to reuse the components. – Apparently protein switches this process off, so you will see articles about cutting out all protein, for a few days at a time if you research target macros and fasting further.

Thanks Niknak – and what about MyFitnessPal?

Wow thank you JGwen I will go and search them out! I love protein, but if it helps I am happy to cut it out for a couple of days! My only worry though would be what to eat to hit my calories?? Food for thought though as it were. Thank you 💞🦜

I seem to have lost a post. But, at pain of repeating it, I really don’t think this is an appropriate space to say anything about anything to do with cancer.Let alone anything, incl autophagy, whatever that actually means, being “beneficial in dealing with cancer”. Looking at a few podcasts does not a tested theory make.And in that sphere, this is really not the space to opine.

Puddy- are you asking if you need to calculate the carbs on MyFitnessPal?
I haven’t used that app for a couple of years but from what I remember, the items I was scanning in matched the description on the label. So in this case it’s still the total carbs.
I can’t remember seeing any non-uk items on that app but it was awhile ago now.

Autophagy is a metabolic process. Isn’t that what the BSD is. I think connection here is the science behind the research of weight loss I don’t think it was meant to be insensitive or offensive.

I would hardly describe Yoshinori Ohsumi’s Nobel prize winning research as a few podcasts

6turkeys, – You are correct, I don’t think the forum is the place to be discussing cancer so mentioned it only in passing because any searches anyone does for more information will bring that aspect up. Research identifies that combining eating programs to stimulate autophagy combined with chemotherapy and other treatments for cancer is more effective than the treatments without autophagy.

People with a lot of weight to loose including those following the BSD often raise the common fear of loose skin. – Autophagy is the mechanism for preventing that. The latest BSD book apparently incorporates Time Restricted Eating one of the benefits of which is an increase in the rate of autophagy. Apparently the rate starts to ramp up after 16 hours of nearly no protein intake, but to have it functioning at the maximum rate you need to be on low protein for more than 3 days. –

Birdy, if you search for fasting mimicking diet, you will be able to find descriptions of a 5 day protocol for 800 calories a day which maximises autophagy. – There is a book on the topic by Professor Longo, who also has a sideline selling very expensive packages of shakes and meals for people to follow his plan. – I wouldn’t bother with the book, most of it is padding about his views on the diets in different countries. – Professor Longo’s program is much higher in carbs than is comfortable to most people who understand the benefits of controlling insulin and being in ketosis. He recommends that 9% of the 800 calories is protein. – When I tried it once earlier this year, I used complex carbs like stir fried veg cooked in butter and just avoided protein. But I only did the one session and then took up the opportunity to join this weight training program and didn’t want to muddy the waters by following such as intensive eating program.

Good morn1ng, all! 6T, you sound l1ke the PC pol1ce today 🙂 What makes our commun1ty un1que 1s that th1s
1s a safe space to talk about everyth1ng that has an effect on our l1ves, not just the d1scuss1on of MMosley’s
theor1es. 1t’s all 1nterconnected…1 bel1eve that the wonderful conversat1ons on autophagy are VERY benef1al,
and are of genu1ne 1nterest to a great many of us. 1n actual1ty, one can “step over” (1gnore) posts that may not be
of 1nterest. We have moderators here to make dec1s1ons on what 1s or 1s not appropr1ate, folks. 1 really enjoyed
your descr1pt1on of what plants were be1ng 1nstalled 1n your garden, 6T. Thank you for go1ng off top1c to tell
me about 1t!

Hi Allie, I didn’t mean to sound PC or bossy, and I think (hope!) JGwen read it as it was intended. I am sure that many of us on here have had direct experience of cancer, in our loved ones, and indeed other people on here (and from what I can gather those who were previously regular posters) have personal experience, and it was just the point that mentioning potential therapeutic effect on that illness was I thought beyond the forum – certainly I can see the research on insulin, blood sugars and inflammation is really interesting, and only yesterday we had an exchange on here on knees and hips feeling so much better, so quickly after coming off carbs. I really wasn’t trying to moderate but neither did I feel I could just ignore! I know no one was touting snake-oil so sorry if it came over as over-reaction! Just hit a nerve….Garden is coming along nicely. Back garden is pinks/whites/deep purply reds and purply blues; front (tiny) patch I am going for white and “burnt orange”. Apart from wonderful white dicentra, and hellebores, there is a lovely Crocosmia, and I have just bought two white foxgloves and some cheery little geums (variety is called “Cooky”) . Hope all well!

I enjoy reading all the topics on here and the fountain of knowledge that folk are happy to share. Yes we all have had experience of cancer, either personally or loved ones, but to me that makes it even better to be able to read things here, there or anywhere that may help someone somewhere. Same goes with depression or any other subject. There is such a range of topics discussed on here and that’s what makes this forum so interesting and so addictive. And, as Allie said, if a particular subject doesn’t interest me or hits a raw nerve then I just skip it. Someone else will no doubt benefit from reading it even if I dont. I have no interest in gardens and plants but that’s my choice.

Hi sixturkeys and everyone else.
Don’t worry, 6T’s reaction to the passing comment I made to cancer when introducing the principle of Autophagy into one of the conversations didn’t offend me.

I have seen 6T’s reaction to other posts by people in the past. I know she is more likely to respond to some topics like that test of reactions where a doctor hits the knee with a little hammer than anyone else on the forum. Hope you smile at this rather than take offence 6T, but nowadays when I see you react sharply to a post on the forum I take more notice about the length of time it takes you to come back and rejoin the conversations than to the reactive post.

As for the garden / flowers chat. – For me its that time of year when I do the Bracken dance when walking the dogs. – Whatever field we are in the walk turns into this routine of stamping on emerging bracken fonds that to an observer would look like a mad dance routine. (If you crush but do not completely break the stem of a bracken fond it can’t send nutrients back to the roots but doesn’t send up a replacement fond, so bracken bruising is a more effective way of killing than cutting. ) – I have a sack of seed which is a mixture of clover and wild flower to sprinkle on the mole hills in the hay fields as well, but, its been so dry recently that there is no point at present. – Will do that when we have some showers on the way.

Don’t know whether I’m the knee or the hammer! And I hope my “sharp” posts are infrequent… I did feel a complete idiot over “botgate” – but radio silence yesterday was due to (a) dog to vet (b) quite busy on job I do from home and (c) for my office job (one day a week – in theory – being Thurs), our US subsid was suddenly sued, involving blood-sucking conditional fee lawyers for claimants so late night working on NY local time picking up with US insurers and our own NY attorneys – quite like the old days in private practice. And today in the office and deluged this morning…. I like the sound of Bracken dancing.

Bracken danc1ng could be a new form of a Ra1n Dance, JGwen! Stay out of v1ew of the v1llage goss1pers when
you do th1s, however! You’ve g1ven them plenty to th1nk about already 🙂 Have the bees arr1ved?

I have a very clear image in my head of the bracken boogie and am impressed by your encyclopaedic knowledge.

Hello all

Not replied over the last few days as was busy but I’m still here and STILL sticking to the diet!

Been tricky at times but not too bad. Most days a minimum of 13-14 overnight fast. Keto sticks telling me I’m in mild ketosis. Few headaches. Sleep has improved, weirdly. Managed to swim 30 lengths 3 times last week – its just a case of getting the meal timing before exercise right it seems.

I think part of the adjustment is ‘food security’. You worry that you wont get another meal, then you remember there’s one not far off, and if you’re REALLY desperate you can have something to eat, just something ‘good’

On that subject – and apologies as I’m sure its come up before – but is there any emergency snack food that is essentially guilt free and gives you a full feeling? Anything under 40cal perhaps? Meal planning is ok, but I’d just like to have an insurance policy in between meals!

Not weighing myself until Tuesday, so we’ll see whether its all been paying off!

As unsexy and bland as 1t 1s, 1 f1nd a hard bo1led egg to be the perfect emergency food. 1t travels eas1ly 1n 1ts shell,
and 1f you’re look1ng for a l1ttle someth1ng, 1t’s only 70 cal. and no carbs, and 1f 1t looks unappeal1ng at the t1me, you
have to conclude that you’re really not hungry after all, and just “want” someth1ng! At those moments, take a walk, have
a long soak 1n the tub, or varn1sh your na1ls…call a fr1end, or hop on the forum. 1t WLL pass 🙂

Hi gypsymoth I was exactly like you at first and always seemed to need something to snack on. I used to have a couple of handfuls of pistachios with a sprinkle of sea salt, but it stopped around my third week. I have One meal a day most days of the week now, well except when I am on night shift which is two days a week. I find I have to have two or three meals a day then as my body clock is upside down and because it is a very active job my body needs more food. I stick within the parameters of this woe but do eat 2-3 meals over those two days. The rest of the week I can go without any snacks and if my body is feeling a little hungry I check with water first and the hunger usually goes as I was actually thirsty. I like to have a mix of fizzy water and still. The fizzy water is my snack as it were🤣. It seems to fill me up better. But like Allie said it will pass and you will not need to snack. I was an all day long snacker before I started this and I would go from savoury to sweet and back again, I was never full(or at least that was what my gut told me) but I look back and know it was just the gut monsters craving carbs and sugar from all the rubbish I was eating. A hot drink will help too. I have been trying out milk alternatives as a lot of people use them and I have found unsweetened soya makes a great latte😉. I would not get rid of real milk altogether as it gives our brains iodine and for no other reason that I love milk.❤️ Hope this helps hun, you are doing so well and we have your back. 💞🦜

Gypsymoth: You asked which cheeses are better nutritionally or easier to digest. In the Clever Guts Diet book, Dr Mosley recommends cheeses which contain live bacteria, such as Greek Feta (sheeps +/ or goats milk) and French Roquefort (unpasteurised sheeps milk). Yes as you say goat’s cheese: the log type with the white rind.

Many of the European traditionally made/ local cheeses contain live bacteria and yeasts. Other examples include Brie de Meaux, Camembert de Normandie (both cows milk), Parmaggiano reggiano (unpasteurised cows milk) and Pecorino romano (unpasteurised sheeps milk). These are be named exactly as I typed them plus the mark PDO or DOP so we know they are the ‘real deal’.

If you are not in the UK or Europe you may be able to get some of these, or other live or unpasteurised cheeses local to you from a farmers’ market or good deli.

Anyway HTH knowing what Dr Mosley recommends!

Thanks for the cheese tip!

Did the weigh in…

Last Tuesday – 89.8kg
This Tuesday – 87.7kg

So about 4.4 pounds in old money

Not as big as drop as I’d hoped!