Has anyone got full shopping lists for the 4 weekly menus in the book at all? Just starting out and this would make it so much easier. Thanks

The list here is from the book, you are not subjected to buy everything but the list contains all the ingredients mentioned in the book for the recipes given. I have added substitutes for my fellow veggies out there.

*Vegetables:*
Carrots
Chicory head
Broccoli
Aubergines
Fennel bulb
Celeriac
Beetroot
Ginger
Portobello mushrooms
Baby mushrooms
Spinach
Chickpeas
Rhubarb
Shallots
Garden peas
Chard
Pak choi
Kale
Courgette
Spring onions
Garlic
Sweet peppers
Avocado
Red chilli
Green chilli
Cauliflower
Red onions
Watercress
Lettuce
Celery
Radishes
Cucumber
Rocket
Cherry tomatoes
Butternut squash
Leeks
Sweet corn
Sugar snap peas
Mange tout
Mixed salad leaves
Beef tomato
Asparagus
Black olives
Bean sprouts
Little gem lettuce

*Fruits:*
Pink grapefruit
Pomegranate
Bramley Apple
Lemon
Orange
Passion fruit
Apple
Mango
Goji berries
Apricots
Raspberries
Galia melon
Blueberries
Strawberries
Pears

*Beans and pulses:*
Black beans
Butter beans
Green beans
Cannellini beans
Kidney beans
Green lentils
Haricot Beans
Black eyed beans

*Dairy (alt):*
Cottage cheese
Edam cheese
Greek full fat yogurt
Goats cheese
(Eggs large)
Unsweetened Almond milk
Parmesan cheese
Half fat crème fraîche
Feta cheese
Butter
Ricotta
Sour cream
Halloumi
Manchego cheese (or cheddar)

*Nuts and seeds:*
Pistachio nuts
Almond flakes
Almonds
Hazelnuts
Pine nuts
Flaxseed
Walnut
Sunflower seeds
Pumpkin seeds
Cumin seeds
Sesame seeds
Pecan nuts

Herbs and spices
Nutmeg
Paprika
Chives
Cinnamon
Mint leaves
Black pepper
Salt
Basil
Mustard seeds
Parsley
Dill
Rosemary leaves
Balsamic vinegar
Star anise
Allspice
Chilli flakes
Coriander
Bay leaf
Sage leaves

*Juices/ drinks:*
Apple Juice
Green tea
Coconut water
Cider (regular)
Vermouth/ dry white wine

*Stores:*
Raisins
Coconut flour
White flour (for dusting)
Baking powder
Drizzle oil (Olive)
Cooking oil (Rapeseed)
Capers
White wine vinegar
Red wine vinegar
Fish sauce
Thai fish sauce
Soy sauce
Coconut milk
Tahini
Veg stock cube
Chicken stock cubes
Beef stock cubes
Steak rub
Mixed peppercorns
Harisssa paste
Tinned tomatoes/ passata
Tomato puree
Tabasco sauce
Whole grain mustard
Dijon mustard
Cajun seasoning
Curry powder
Cayenne pepper
Chilli powder
Worcester sauce
Mayonnaise
Cornflour
Dried apricots
Baharat spice mix
Oregano
Cinnamon sticks
Plain chocolate (dark)
Peanut butter
Cacao nibs
Dates
Almond flour
Coconut oil

*Meats (alt):*
Pork leg joint (boneless)
Pork fillets
Chicken breast
Bacon
Chorizo (Spanish)
Quorn fillets
Tofu
Quorn pieces
Minced Lamb
Turkey mince
Beef mince

*Fish:*
Mackerel
Smoked Salmon
Crab meat
Crayfish
Prawns
Haddock
Cod fillet
Coley
Trout fillet
Tuna
Sardines

Wow there’s some unexpected stuff on that. Fruit juice? Half fat creme fraiche?! Seems a bit counter intuitive!! I always found the recipe book a bit weird though, compared with the advice in the actual BSD book.

Sweet corn, pears, pistachios, raisins?! Crazy.

I know, when I was reading the recipes and Ingredients I did think it was a bit of a contradiction however, I think that mixed with other ingredients, the small amount of sugar in raisins are counteracted for example fruits and nuts reduces insulin spikes as the slow release from the nuts brings down the sugar Rush from the raisins.
The ingredients I’ve listed are from the actual BSD book not the recipe book.

Another thing is that those Ingredients are in small, small amounts so it takes away from large intakes of badness!

This is why I stuck with my own recipes and calculations. Why jack up your carb count so needlessly by including pure sugar ingredients like raisins and kernel corn? It just doesn’t make sense to me. I get that beets, for example, are very nutrient-dense so there’s a reason he uses them in falafel and soup even though they are high in sugar, but corn?

I understand that the impact of high-sugar ingredients can be mitigated by eating them with high fiber and high fat ingredients like nuts. It’s just not a sure thing at all. A 20-gram serving of oats stimulates the same insulin response in me as a bite of cake, and his beet and apple soup drove a friend I am supporting through the Fast 800 to ravenous hunger and sugar cravings. She gained several pounds the week she made it for her lunches.

These are some serious shoals for a lot of people. Why steer them onto them when there are so many safer routes?

Ahh don’t shoot the messenger! 😬
I agree, but I guess because everyone’s bodies work in different ways, there are a number of different recipes that work for some and not for others. I guess the nutritionist he worked with might have been thinking in an inclusive way??? Maybe?..

I’m not sure but hey!

I guess it’s all about finding what works for you. I remember him mentioning a case study that someone tried the BSD and it didn’t quite work for them but the 5:2 did which tells me depending on your body certain things will and won’t work for you and it’s the same with the foods you eat.

I haven’t tried all recipes yet but I know some of the foods listed I won’t be using 1 I can’t eat for various reasons and 2 like you mentioned unnecessary spikes in sugars, insulin, rage you name it 😂.

Hope your own list is working well for you and your getting the results you need 🙌

I do follow the recipes in both books (the original DrM BSD and the follow on by his wife) but if I see something I wouldn’t eat I either dont make it or leave it out. Example, I have not yet made any oats biscuits or used any alternative flours like almond or coconut. There is a recipe for coq au vin which gives an amount of wine that I ignore and just put in a tablespoonful to add colour and flavour and I have completely stopped dried fruits or low fat products. Dont know why she is using low fat crème fraiche unless she is trying to cut the calories in a recipe. Although not everyone needs to be totally starchy carb free I chose not to have them and, in fact, now would find it difficult to try anything as I know what it will do to my blood sugars.

Definitely not shooting the messenger Sha3107, it was a nice thing you did!

😄 Thank you JackieM

I do the same Sunshine-girl. I made the Aubergines and minced lamb recipe a few times but substitute the lamb with black beans or quorn mince as I don’t eat meat and I don’t eat dried fruits myself either. I mean there’s a brownie recipe in the BSD book with dates and cacao nibs….. Disaster for me, I’ll be craving sugar until the cows come home if I ate that!

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to make you feel shot at all! I was taking issue with Dr. Mosley’s recipes, not at all your list which is really very kind of you to have compiled. Many newbies have asked for such a thing and will be happy to find it, I’m sure.

Black beans are very high in carbs, alas, so I have cut them out entirely. If you can find some black soybeans, they make a fantastic substitute. They’re not as flavorful as regular black beans, but that makes them extremely versatile because they absorb the flavors around them very well. I usually get Eden Foods brand in a can for laziness, but you can also find them dried and do the whole soak overnight-simmer/pressure cook thing.

Also, while dates are indeed irredeemably sugary, cacao nibs are practically sugar-free in their natural state. They are so high fiber that the carbs wind up either very low or zero, depending on the source of the nib. Just look for unsweetened cacao nibs. You may find them a little bitter or strong at first, but give them a chance because they are off the charts good for you and delicious and crunchy to boot. 🙂

Shaa3107, dates are indeed scary, at 33g net carbs for 2! It makes 1 dried apricot half looks fairly
benign at 1.9g .I can also vouch for the wonder of black soybeans, 1g net carbs for 1/2c (cooked),
as compared to 12g for 1/2c black beans. Well worth the effort to seek out! 🙂

Allie

Esnecca, would love your take on this. When I have tried to untangle where the calories come from in nutrition info on posted food, it seems the low carb community is willing to consider net carbs generally agreeing that carbs that are fiber are not bio available, yet continue to count the calories in those same fiber carbs.

Take for example the count for chia seeds below (and yes they differ from one nutrition site from another, but it is the principle I am going for here).

SparkPeople list 1 TBS of chia as 35 calories.

Fat is 8 cal per gram. Both carbs and protein each are 4.

So we have 1.5 g of protein below: should be 6.0 calories
2.3 g of fat should be 18.4

So far we are up to 24.4 calories for the fat and protein.

To get to 35 total calories we are short 10.6 calories. 3.5 g of carb would be 14 if we counted all of it. So clearly they are counting most of it but not all. Huh????

If fiber is 3 of it leaving only .5 bio available carb, then it seems the remaining calories that should be counted are only .5 X 4 or 2 for a total of 24.4 + 2 = 26.4. Either the fiber is bioavailable or its not. I don’t understand not counting it in the carb count yet counting it as a calorie.

The total calorie math SparkPeople is quoting doesn’t really add up either way…..they are neither counting all the carbs nor dismissing all fiber carbs.

And its not only them….see this everywhere. Just find it a bit puzzling,

Nutrition Facts SparkPeople
Calories in Seeds: Chia Seeds Navitas Raw Chia Seeds Aztec Superfood

Serving Size: 1 tbsp
Amount Per Serving
Calories 35.0
Total Fat 2.3 g X 8 = 18.4 calories
Saturated Fat 0.0 g
Total Carbohydrate 3.5 g X 4 = 14.0 calories
Dietary Fiber 3.0 g should be zero calories if not bioavailable
Sugars 0.0 g
Protein 1.5 x 4 = 6.0 calories

LTC, this what I use from nuts.com re chia:

1tbs = 68.5 cal.
cal. from fat = 36
total fat=4.5g
sat. fat = .5g
total carb = 6
fiber =5.5
(net carbs = .5)
protein = 2

I wouldn’t say fiber is not bioavaible; it’s just not processed as sugar is all, despite the US labelling laws insisting that it be included under the carb category. Its calories are likely absorbed by the intestine. That’s one of the points of bariatric surgery, to decrease calorie and fat absorption by cutting off the upper section of the small intestine and connecting the stapled stomach to a lower part.

Given that chia is excreted without being converted to blood glucose, I imagine the total calorie count probably doesn’t reflect a fully accurate picture of how many calories you’re really putting in your system when you eat a tablespoon of it. I just don’t know how much of the chia calories can be absorbed, whether it’s all of them, none of them, or somewhere in between.

Please summarize your conclusions, Luv! I’m not remotely analytical, completely right brained and
creative, so I’m very curious about why you are considering this. You always have a point, are always
informative, and I want to KNOW what you know! Sorry, and thanks, as always! I’m a dolt 🙂

Thank you Esnecca! 😄
Black Soya beans…why have I never heard of such things??!!

I think I’m Completely ill informed about food!!
Ahhhh
I will have to look into these magical beans and if they are ok to eat having a hormonally disfunctional body.

Thank you for the information Esnecca and Alliecat 🤗🤗

Allie, my point was the fact that obviously something more than the fat and protein is being counted for total calories from many food (chia simply being my example),ie, carbs are obviously being counted to make up the difference. Yet it is common practice to exclude the portion of the carbs that are fiber (hense net carbs) as our gut is unable to process fiber and it is considered not bioavailable. Seems to me if you don’t count fiber as a carb (as it is not converted to sugar by humans) we shouldn’t be counting as a calorie either.

In your nutrition count, there is a total of 68.5 calories.

4.5 g fat which is 8 cal per gram, or 36 calories
2 g protein which is 4 cal per gram, or 8 calories

So far we are up to 44

The only thing left to account for the other calories (24.5 still to be accounted for) is the carbs, which are 4 calories per gram, which would mean this total must have 6.125 carbs being counted, ie, they are counting ALL the carbs and do not “buy into” the exclusion of non digestible fiber. We are doing apples and oranges. Either fiber is digestible or its not. If its not, it should not be counted in the carb count NOR the calorie count.

I guess the carb counters are once again at odds from the conventional wisdom….or at least, at odd with whoever is doing the kcal analysis of food. That my only point.

Sorry….I am a bit of a math nerd and it bugs me that the calorie counts seem to include all the fiber when we are constantly be advised to net it out when counting usable carbs.

Thanks, LTC. I see your point! Being a nerd is a WONDERFUL thing. I count on the skills of those
who possess this attribute, since I have no measurable abilities in that direction. Now, if you want
to design both a functional and beautiful residential sanctuary, I am your gal 🙂 Need a kitchen that
stores all of your kitchen equipment, call me! We all compliment each other, on this forum as well
as in our everyday lives. I rejoice in the differences and the similarities, and I’m sure that you do too!
When do you begin your journey to Pittsburgh? Must be fast approaching, now. I hope that you
will have access to wi-fi, so that we’ll know how you are getting on.
Safe journey, my friend 🙂

Allie

Allie, you are such a dear. Would you believe I actully did design…on graph paper to scale….the house my ex-husband and I had built when my son was about 7 or 8 (he is 38 now !). The developer/builder was not at all fazed by taking a 30 inch wide sheet of graph paper with a design done by a client and running with it. I had all the plumbing stacks all lined up so there would be no issue there. The only change we ended up making after the framing was up was shifting a door into the kitchen about 1 ft to allow for a bakers rack to fit against the wall as you entered. So much fun.

Pgh trip is just under two weeks (March 2). I already have a tote set up that I am tossing essentials into (yogurt toppings….my recent favorite is Trader Joe’s dried raspberries added to the standard sliced almonds, cocoa nibs and chia seeds….so portable!). Zip lock bags of nuts. Cans of tuna, a small mayo. Plastic flatware. My backup water bottle. Have some Starbucks VIA instant coffee sleeves (reg and decaf) and a list of last minute perishables (indivdual plain full fat Fage yogurts, cheese, and low carb pita bread).

So much fuss about nothing…..but I don’t want to give myself ANY excuse for lapsing. All this gear ought to see me through the 6 days ( 7 tops with luck and no post surgical complications) with sensible BSD compliant dinners out. And I will just haul my private stash into the hospital cafeteria and whip up my tuna, make my coffee and take advantage of their hot water, hospitality and perhaps salad bar.

Assume the hospital will have WIFI….they all do these days. And of course the hotel in the evenings should. I will be counting on chats with all of you to pass the excruciating boredom of pre and post surgery. Sad that at our age hospital support of loved ones becomes such recurrent chapters in our lives (so many of the BSD posters seem to have had such events over the last year). The bright side is that we are in supporting roles and not the ones being visited.

Hi Luvtcook.

I see the reason why you are puzzled. I looked at this link https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-food-manufacturers/ and it confirmed that the figures for the no of cals per gram of fat, protein and carbs fits in with the article. Apparently they used to calculate the number of cals in foods simply by burning it to see how much energy it provided to heat water, and its only relatively recently that they have changed the calculations based on fat, protein and carbs. Perhaps because different people will have the different bacteria in their guts and therefore will be able to digest different levels of fiber they have to make an estimate on the percentage of fiber that can be digested. Apparently there are links from this article to the database on foods, so maybe you could use that to look at a range of foods easily to see if there are any patterns?

Just caught up on Liz’s struggles. Seems I failed to see her posts of all she was going thru while I was out with chronic fatigue the end of January. I now feel a bit of a jerk for my comment about our group supporting others and thank heavens it was not us in the hospital. Then I read Liz’s posts from today and went back to see all the prior details. My heavens is she going thru a lot. At least the forum lot have reached out magnificently to support her. Fingers crossed.