Hi All – I’m over 4 weeks in now and weight loss is going well – just over a stone down, 10% of total body weight, and within 9lb of my target of BMI < 25. I’m sticking strictly to the 800 calorie count, avoiding alcohol, sugar , carbs.

My main issue is that whilst my blood glucose levels through the day are great – generally between 4.4 and 7, my average fasting blood glucose has steadily risen from 6.3 in week 1 to 9.2 this week.

The previous day I’d had avocado and poached egg for breakfast, homemade butternut squash soup for lunch, and salmon green beans and swede for dinner, and a few nuts (809 cals) . I’d also completed over 10k steps and a body balance class. So waking up to BG of 9.6 was a bit of a shock.

I’m fairly sure it’s the dawn phenomenon – I have in the past woken up and tested my blood sugar a few times during the night and it seems to spike around 4am. Just not sure what I can do about it, if anything.

I stopped gliclazide after week 1 in agreement with GP as some of my levels were on the low side through the day, so I guess it’s possibly just related to that but I think if it goes above 10 I’ll probably have to think about restarting the medication which would be disappointing. I’m still on 2000mg metformin which I was hoping to cutback too, but not until I’m a bit more stable.

Anyone else seeing sugar levels going the wrong way?

My experience is the opposite of yours Squidgy. I always used to get the dawn phenomenon but in the last week or so my bedtime reading equals my morning fast read and there’s been the odd day where the morning fast has been lower than the bedtime read. I’ll get the occasional outlier reading, ie, a high morning fast reading, but my readings seem to have settled in the 5.5 to 6 range in the mornings. They were 10+ when I started the BSD. Given I’ve been a diagnosed diabetic since 2002, that’s very impressive. I’ve been on the program for about 4 weeks now and don’t necessarily stick to the 800 calories but I haven’t had a starchy carb, bread or pasta since I’ve started. I have a lot of weight to lose (8 stone) and its coming off but all I really wanted to achieve was the stabilisation of my BSL.

I’ve just got my latest HB1AC test result today and it was 8.2 and my GP was just about to add Gliclazide to my Metformin but I showed him my spreadsheet of my BSL readings since I’ve started the BSD and I’ve got a reprieve. He switched me over to Metformin XR a few months ago which apart from the side effects didn’t seem to work as well as straightforward Metformin. So I’m back on 2000mg of Metformin a day and will re-test everything again in late April by which time I would’ve done the 8 weeks and be on maintenance and hopefully see the improvements (and cross fingers a reduction in my medication).

Interestingly for me Squidgy, I get a higher BSL reading after exercise than I do before, so not sure if this is impacting your results too. I’m doing a water based exercise program here in Oz where I live specifically tailored for diabetics so I’m in the pool 3 times a week and try and do my 10000 steps the other non-swim days.

Squidgy, this sounds strange but it worked for me.
Try a fatty snack at about 9pm. I use greek yoghurt with a few berries. It lowered my dawn reading significantly, the idea is, if your body has something to digest during the night, it prevents your liver from releasing stored sugar into the bloodstream while you sleep.

Hi Bill – I’ll give a bedtime snack a go, thanks for the tip, and I always have greek yogurt in the fridge.

Notsosweet – it’s great to hear you having such great results after such a long time diagnosed. I’ve been type 2 for 8 years and so realise it’s likely to take a bit longer than those who are newly diagnosed. I’ve not noticed my blood sugar rise after exercise (not immediately anyway)

Hi all

I’ve registered so am new to this thread but thought I’d get involved. I was diagnosed type 2 about five weeks ago and have been doing the 800 calorie for four weeks now. I’m a TOFI and didn’t think I had a lot of weight to lose but I’m still on the diet as blood sugars haven’t stabilised yet.

I too have been experiencing higher blood sugar levels first thing in the morning and have just found out about the dawn phenomenon which would explain why readings are better just before my evening meal, but that wouldn’t be my actual fasting blood sugar level. My question is when does everyone think the best time to take your fasting blood sugar is? Have breakfast and then wait 8 hours? Can’t really do that every day. I’m still waiting to get my blood sugars below 6.4.
Any suggestions?

Lachlan

Hi Lachlan,
The best time for fasting blood sugar is when you wake up. You might find that this reading is a bit higher, due to the dawn phenomenon you mentioned.
Many of us have found that a small protein/ fat snack before bed helps overcome this. I have a cheese slice and some milk. Bill1954 has full fat yoghurt.
We have both had a reduction in our fasting blood sugars.
You are lucky that you started on the BSD so soon after diagnosis. You have every chance of successfully avoiding any diabetes related complications. All the best for some great results.

Well I’ve tried having a bedtime snack a couple of times and it hasn’t made much difference. Last night my levels were 6.8 at bedtime and I had half an avocado. This morning I was up to 8.6!

But I did find a really interesting weblink that indicates I shouldn’t be too concerned about it as it’s just a sign that I have more work to do to get rid of fat from my liver.

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

Unless it gets up to double figures I’m not going to worry about it for the time being.

Thanks Squidgy, I think that’s the best explanation of the dawn phenomenon I’ve ever read.

Yeah Squidgy, that is a cracking read and will put a lot of minds at rest.
I was thinking something similar last week, the liver only has a finite storage capacity, so if it is releasing sugar every night and it isn’t being replaced, there has to come a point where the sugar readings go down.
Just stick with it, it may take another week but yours will reduce as well, in the meantime, just conssider it as poison leaving your body.

Thanks for posting this squidgy. My blood sugar this morning is 11.7. An MRI confirmed I have a very fatty liver, so I can continue to expect high readings until my liver cleans itself out. I don’t want to hinder it’s progress so I will continue my 12 hour night time fast.

Thank you for the post about The Dawn Phenomenon. I could’t understand why my blood sugar level was higher this morning but this now makes more sense. Diagnosed Type 2 Diabetic four weeks ago and started the BSD straight away. I have only been taking a fasting blood test once a week just to get a snapshot of what was going on and to monitor changes/ improvements in general terms. My Diabetic Nurse was keen that I didn’t get too hung up on the figures but did give me a test kit with only 10 testing strips so I decided to use one a week for a fasting blood test. This is the very first week it hasn’t gone down. I do understand that readings may vary from time to time but the article was both comforting and informative. Thank you.

Thanks Squidgy. That is a fascinating article about the dawn phenomenon and now so much makes sense to me.

I am still getting higher results in the morning despite trying the late night fatty / protein snack but I figure I need to try it a few more times yet to make it work. However, I’m feeling very pleased at the moment because my levels overall are most definitely down. Yesterday my pre dinner level was 5.6 and tonight it was 5.5. I think I might actually be on the road home! But I’ve had disappointments before so holding back the celebrations till I’m sure it stays that way.

lachlanh I’m the same as you, sugar levels at any time of the day except first thing in the morning were fine.
I have managed to get my fasting readings below 7 now but I’m beginning to wonder if I wasn’t a little too much hung up on it.
If this is a natural body response for everybody and it’s helping your liver to shed sugar and fat, maybe it’s a good thing.

Bill

Yet again my morning level was up. This time to 7.9 but like you I’m not going to get hung up about it. That article that sguidgy posted really explained things so I’m now also thinking the high morning levels might actually be a good thing – part of the flushing out process. I’m going to concentrate on my evening readings for the moment. I might try and go for 8 hours without eating before to get a true fasting blood sugar level.

Worth a try but watch out for a hypo creeping up on you.

Hi All – great feedback and good to know that I’m not the only one with this problem.

My pre dinner level is usually in the 5-7 range, even since I reduced my medication, so I’m sure this is the way forward.

Keep us posted if you see any changes – it’ll give the rest of us hope!

Damn! After getting great pre-dinner (my lowest readings) levels of 5.5 / 5.6 my levels have risen again. Today it was up to 8.3. What is going on? Has anyone else experienced these spikes? Oddly enough the last two times I measured my blood was after I wasn’t able to eat until more than 6 and a half hours after my previous meal. I’m getting a theory that if I leave it too long between meals my liver decides to over-compensate and release more sugar. Hence my problem with the dawn phenomenon.
Any thoughts or suggestions?

I’ve had the same thing this week with readings of 9, 8.1, and 7.7
Today back down to 6.9
I’m not sure why but, coincidentally, I haven’t been having my yoghurt and berry late night snack this week as I just wasn’t hungry.
Had it last night and saw an instant improvement this morning.
Are you putting enough fat in your diet ?

Not a coincidence Bill! You know that by now :). It doesn’t seem to matter how good my carb intake has been through the day. It still happens to me if I miss my snack, it’s disappointing but something we obviously have to learn to live with. So if I’m tired and likely to fall asleep before snack time I have to make sure I’ve at least had a drink of milk.

You are right of course cherrianne ***RUBS SLAPPED HAND***
I won’t make that mistake again, I do struggle to force food down when I’m not hungry but I’ll persevere with it.
Thanks for the kick in the butt 😀

No slaps or kicks Bill, value the advice you give on here too much lol! It is disappointing though that we can get such good control over everything else except the dawn phenomenon!
I’ve had fasting readings under 5 for over a week now because I’ve been really on top of the night time snack. In fact I’ve just had it because it’s 10.40 at night here and I have to be up fairly early, no Saturday lie in for me this week. My sister and I sell our handmade soaps and candles at a market on the first Saturday of the month. It’s forecast to be 29 degrees so hopefully our soy melts won’t, at least not until they’re sold 🙂

29 degrees !!!!! positively tropical
We are expecting 2 – 3 degrees with snow and ice !
So you are 10 and a half hours ahead of the UK if it’s Friday night there.
My week 5 weigh day is tomorrow and after the dodgy sugar readings this week, I don’t know what to expect, but I did tighten the belt another notch this week.
Sleep well and enjoy the market 🙂

Hi Bill, how did your weigh day go today? I dressed for the expected warm weather today and walked out into a world of cold and misty weather lol!!
Checked the forecast, still said 29 so off we went. No fun setting up a market stall when you’re freezing 🙁 Quick SOS to home, hubby brought some extra layers, changed in the van not having a phone box handy lol. Emerged a much warmer superwoman ready to tackle anything 🙂 that’s what the BSD does for you. Kicking diabetes’ butt, sugar under control, way more energy. Loving it.

Morning (or evening) cherrianne
Another pound and a half gone which I’m really pleased with. Given the way my blood sugar has behaved this last week, I wouldn’t have been astonished if I had o
put a stone on.
How did the market go ? Sell all the soya melts ?

Well done Bill, you are still on the way down. Maybe your liver is still getting rid of stored energy and that’s why your sugars have been erratic? A check of your carb intake this week should tell you if it’s food related or not. Take heart that your daytime readings are good though, so it would seem to be down to your liver.
The market went well, fair few tourists passing through and stopping to buy. Unusually one man stopped several times to admire and smell one of our candles in a vintage cup and saucer set! Men usually scurry past, heads averted lol. This one came back with his wife and showed her but she wasn’t interested. He left disappointed and empty handed.
We just do the market for fun, both my sister and I are ‘ people persons’, just love the interactions with customers and other stall holders 🙂
We are getting quite a few repeat customers for our handmade soaps so people are obviously happy with them.
Ten days now, for me, of fasting readings under 5!!! Thank you Michael Moseley and the researchers. Two years a diabetic and I’ve learned more in past 4 weeks than in those two years.

Thanks so much for the post squidgy on dawn phenomomen, it was fascinating and great to know that it is the body getting rid of sugar.
Well done Bill1954 on your brilliant progress you are an inspiration to all.

Hi all

Getting a bit panicky here. About a week and a half ago I had blood sugar levels of 5.6 and 5.5 (pre evening meal) and then it started to go up and continue to go up until it reached 8.3 (pre evening meal) and 9.4 (in the morning). I thought I was doing so well but now worried it’s not working after all. I’m on week six now.

Anyone has had these kind of spikes that have then come down again?

Hi lachlanh
I’m going through exactly the same thing here, I thought it was just me.
I’ve stuck to the no carb rules religiously but, like you, after seeing the sugar readings fall steadily for the first few weeks they started creeping up again to the point where this morning it was 9.9 !!!
Trying not to worry too much, after all, if I’m not putting carbs and sugar in, and this is stored sugar being released, then it has to run out sometime.
Keep posting your readings as will I and let’s see if we can work this thing out.

lachlanh I messaged the team about this, their reply is,
Chances are it is nothing to worry about. Your body is still adjusting and it’s not unusual to see a little fluctuation.

Also, if it’s first thing in the morning, your levels will naturally rise slightly during the night.

Keep an eye on it and I’m sure it’ll get on track again. If you’re at all unsure, consult with your doctor.

Best of luck, keep up the good work.

Bill

So good to know it’s not just me! Thanks for that. I’ve deliberately not taking my blood sugar levels for the last couple of days because it was stressing me out too much. Interestingly I have been doing some jogging since starting the diet but haven’t done it for the last week or so. I started again this morning. I’ll see if it makes a difference and let you know. Good to know it normal part of the process. I think it’s very important to stay positive and motivated so thanks for finding out about that.

Hi lachlanh & Bill – It’s good to know it’s not just me.

I’m in week 7 now and the weightloss is still going well – 16.5lb, the lightest I have been for about 20 years and around 7lb off my target weight, but I’m seeing the same rise in blood sugar levels and not only in the morning now.

On Sunday as it was Mother’s day I thought I’d go for the brunch and dinner, as suggested in the book. I measured my blood glucose when I woke up and it was 6.9, the lowest I’d seen for some time. However around 3 hours later, just before brunch, it had gone up to 8.7! I’ve also had a few readings above 7 before dinner this week.

So I’m still a bit puzzled, but I’ve seen higher readings when I was on more medication, so I am trying not to worry too much.

Hi All,
It must be catching lol. I’ve had several weeks now of fasting levels below 5. Since Wed it had been above 5 and this morning it was a pretty outrageous 7.9. Same carb and calorie levels as usual and no sneaky treats.
Maybe it’s a phase you go through at a certain stage in your body’s readjustment. I’m starting week 5, I wonder what week others found this to be a problem? I’m happy to wait now that Bill has heard from the team. I won’t start worrying until the 8 weeks are up.

Hi Cherrieanne, it’s a comfort that Bill had feed back from the team on this, it must lessen the worry. It does seem to be a pattern so far in doesn’t it? This is such new territory for all of us, even the non-diabetics with other health problem. I think you will be right about the body readjusting. 🙂

This is the way I’m seeing it now.
Compare your body to a car, it’s been running happily on 4 star petrol but everything gets clogged up with carbon. You have a can of unleaded in the boot and you run out of fuel.
Put unleaded in and the car may stutter a few times but as it gets used to the new cleaner fuel, performance gets better as the carbon deposits melt away.
The high sugar readings are the result of your body getting rid of those carbons (stored sugar) and once it’s gone, performance will improve.
Simplistic perhaps but it works for me.
Oh BTW 7.1 fasting reading this morning so hopefully the start of a downward trend again.

Good news about FBS and I love the analogy of the car and petrol! 🙂

Hi all

It’s been nearly two weeks since I had those glorious 5.6 and 5.5 levels and I miss seeing them. I’ve been deliberately avoiding taking any readings so as not to face any disappointment but did it tonight before dinner and was at 8.5. I wasn’t feeling too bothered though after discovering everyone else is getting the same problem. I don’t feel so alone! I guess it’s just going to take longer than I hoped. Keep positive everyone. We can do this.

I took a leaf out of your book today Lachlanh, and didn’t measure my fasting blood sugar. It would only make me worry if it was even higher. I didn’t feel like it was high, still had good energy levels so I’m just going to stick to the plan and see what happens Monday.
Let’s hope we all get over this soon, like you I’m really missing those lovely low readings. I was so proud of them 🙂

Hi Cherrianne

Good plan. I’ve actually started doing some series meditation to calm me down. Not sure if my stress is causing my blood sugar levels to rise but it’s really helping me deal with the disappointment of these high readings I’ve been getting and I have to say I’m feeling much more relaxed. Im sure all our levels will come down again. I figure if my pancreas has done it before it will do it again. Just have to give it time.

I too saw a rise in levels in week 5. Week 7 was the best I’d seen, then back up in week 8. Work was v stressful in week 8. I didn’t change what I ate and was proud that I hadn’t resorted to chocolate but blood readings were up and no weight lost. I wondered if the stress could be a factor or whether it was just a normal variation. Going to keep going and see what happens.

Thanks for that TimeForChange,
I had a suspicion that this was happening at a similar point in time on the BSD for all of us.
It’s reassuring, and as Lachlan says, if our pancreas can do it once it can do it again 🙂

Hi all.

I decided to read that article that Squidgy posted again and been having a think. Funny how you understand things so much more after a second reading. I think we all might be interpreting this blood sugar spike completely wrong I.e. It might be something we should be celebrating rather than getting us down. I’ll explain.

The article describes our liver as being like a balloon which gets filled up with stored sugar from the food we eat which the liver then releases at a time of fast right? In non diabetics this doesn’t cause a problem as the insulin produced can balance the levels out but with diabetics this means our levels go way high. BUT I reckon this could be happening for one of two reasons – or both.

Firstly, we’re not consuming sugars etc so the rise can only be coming out of our liver. Being as we are diabetic possibly for a very long time there must be a hell of a lot of sugar built up in there and there is only one place it can deposit it now it’s decided it’s happy to get rid of it – into our blood. And our blood is the only place we can measure any blood sugar levels in our body. Is possible that after five or so weeks (that seems to be the common pattern with us all) our livers have actually started working properly again because it’s lots all that fat which was inhibiting it before and it’s doing what it’s supposed to do but perhaps somewhat over enthusiastically because there is just so much sugar in there that has built up over time. If you’ve been diabetic for a number of years just imagine how much sugar has been pushed into that liver in that time.

Secondly, maybe it’s doing what it’s supposed to but the reason the blood sugar levels are so high is because we’re still waiting for the pancreas to do a bit of catching up or possibly it is working okay but a bit temporarily overwhelmed by the amount of sugar being pushed out because the liver has now decided to dump all this excess sugar into our blood to get rid of it.

These are just my thoughts and I’d love to hear what you all think. I’d really love to hear from someone that has had this spike and come out the other side. If there us anyone at that stage please come and say hello!

I’m so pleased to read this thread and the article. I had been getting lower morning figures down to 5 but for a couple of weeks they have been going back up. I had stopped taking glicazide as figures were so good but went back on it. I am coming off again after reading this. I had a 3.8 reading today after work which was a bit scary as I have never had a hypo before.

I am new here too and happy to read this information.
I have a BGL of 7 in the morning an hour after getting up (I’m in Australia and our measures may be different) and my approach is just not to eat anything til it drops cause I figure I don’t need any extra blood glucose floating about…I know from tests that my insulin is really high in response to any sugar (carbs).

So frequently I don’t eat til about 1 or 2 in the afternoon. I have got off metformin this way cause it dropped my HbA1c into controlled levels. I don’t know if this is advisable, I just started to do it to control my numbers because I am pretty determined to take as few medications as possible.

I had thought the morning higher figures may be due to my insulin resistance…liver pushing out the glucose, muscles not picking updie to insulin resistance?

Wow lachlan,
Your post makes so much sense! I think we are all so conditioned by the need to keep our blood sugars down that we got worried about what now seems a perfectly acceptable short term glitch.
I had already decided to ditch my late night snack to see if that helped, before I read your post. Now I really think I might benefit from a longer overnight fast.
Let’s keep posting our experiences and see how long it takes. It will certainly help everyone experiencing the same thing to feel reassured.
As a TOFI I’m never quite sure if the experience of those with a lot of weight to lose will be the same as mine. It’s very reassuring to have a fellow TOFI post similar results. Thank you 🙂

Hi Matrika – I read some info on a website that suggested doing exactly as you are. i.e. using your metre readings to decide when to eat. It suggested waiting till your reading drops below your average reading then eating. This will then reduce your average over time.

Hi TimeForChange (great nic) I’m glad to hear someone else is doing it! I thought it would be a way to control my insulin, which i couldn’t find any doctor interested in…they were all obsessed with blood glucose levels and I am obsessed with insulin since I figure it is the real problem for me…way too much of it. I was constantly told I would eventually have to go onto insulin injections which I argued black and blue was a furfy, never won…just have had gazillion GPs who think I am a problem. The most recent one wrote on a blood test referrral that I “eschew” statins, just so I know she disapproves.

I am very hopeful this 8 week blood sugar diet approach will work and will be easier than some of my previous attempts to reign in the diabetes. If I was told I needed to go on a three week hike with only water I would try it I am so willing to reverse my diabetes. What I really want to reverse is my insulin resistance and that is where my focus is most dierected for the long term.

Cherrianne, I used to be a TOFI in the 90s when I just had insulin resistance and hypoglycaemia…sought advice cause I thought I could see the trajectory I was on and the advice was eat low glycaemic index…so I did, gained a lot of weight and then had to deal with patronizing lectures from GPs telling me to lose weight and exercise more, whilyt they refused to look at insulin (they regarded it as my own misguided preoccupation).

Happy some sense is now emerging from Drs like Michael Mosely from the minefield of diabetes Type II misinformation that has been blowing us up (figuratively speaking) for years. Now, if I can find a GP who will read his book or that of Jason Fung I will be very very happy and healthy again.

That really is a great article linked by Squidgy, thanks! After a great initial BG reading my numbers, like others on this thread, started rising. How could that be happening?!! After reading the article everything makes perfect sense now and if it’s correct (and I can’t think of any other explanation) the higher numbers are reassuring in a way.
The thing that really kind of winds me up, and has done since I was diagnosed several years ago and started investigating type 2, is that the medical profession seem quite content treating the symptoms of type 2 rather than spending serious time and money finding the cause of this Behemoth. Surely it can’t be the case that the Beta cells in vast swathes of the population are suddenly dying? And if they are, why? Or is it still generally the case that “fat lazy people get Diabetes who couldn’t be bothered doing anything about it anyway…”?
I’ve just passed my 2 weeks and look forward with a mixture of excitement and curiosity. If nothing else, I’m on my way to getting the body I’ve always wanted! I’m getting to be quite fond of mirrors lately…

Good luck and good health folks, Mick.

Hi Mick,
I agree with so much of what you are saying. There is a misconception that type 2’s somehow are responsible for developing the disease. Yet most of us are far from fat and lazy, but poor dietary advice coupled with insulin certainly does nothing to help weight loss.
You are absolutely right that the focus is on treating the symptoms ( reducing high blood sugars) rather than dealing with the cause. We are doing this ourselves though, quite successfully on this way of eating. The more vocal we get to our GP’s and diabetes nurses etc. the quicker the info will get out there.

Just checked my blood levels his morning and it was a whopping 11.5! Very disappointed and finding it hard to stay positive bearing in mind I’m now into week 7 but … I’ve not been taking the readings over the last week in order to not get too stressed out about it but I think the anticipation after such a long time is having the reverse effect and making me more stressed out. Any encouragement gratefully received!

A bit glum at the moment about morning/fasting BG levels. Interesting to read others experiences in this thread.
When I (Steve) started the diet my morning BG dropped to 3.9, in the first week, from my old usual 6 – 6.5, which did surprise me a lot. Settled at about 4.5 after a couple of weeks, which I counted a success at the time.
Now Ei is not diabetic, according to the doc, just wants to lose weight, and hers were anywhere between 5.0 – 5.7. So the “normal” one had a higher/fasting BG than the diabetic!
Then in week 7, suddenly, I get 6.0 one morning. I had tried to re-introduced a bit of wine to my diet, and it had slipped over the “small glass with dinner” threshold sometimes. Was this the reason? Unfortunately, diet-wise, we have been on holiday for week 8, but stayed on track with food. Kept wine to just one glass a day. Came back to a 6.7 reading!
After 8 weeks diet I am now as thin as a racing snake, but with morning/fasting BG levels similar to before I started.
Lost my way a bit.