This is so weird. First off, As I grew up on the other side of the pond, bs here is on a different scale that what sounds like is the A1C designation ~ 5.x is really good, 6.x is not so good, 7 is good if you are diabetic, 8 is seriously not so good.

I was diagnosed just about a year ago with fbs at 180-something and A1C at 8.5. Not believing I had a chronic progressive disease I armed myself with MFP and a gym membership and in 3 months for my next a1c I turned that 8.5 into 5.8. I also, since last July, lost over 80lbs or around 40Kg? I did nothing special except keep my daily calories below ~1500. I happened on Dr Fung’s 6 part YouTube series then Dr Mosley’s BSD and Dr Fung’s Obesity Code. I’ve been fasting roughly 21 hrs / day and limit myself to under 800 cals. Up until today I’d have said my tiredness and cold feet had gone. Today my feet are freezing. My morning fbs was 110 (shocking really) as for the last week or so it’s been low 90’s with one day at 101 (prior to today). In 13 days I’ve lost 8 lbs. That doesn’t strike me as especially stellar.

What’s interesting though is the sort of confluence between Dr Taylor’s work in New Castle and Dr Fung’s work in Toronto and Dr Mosley’s work. I was kind of hoping to see the 1-2 lbs / day drop after having hit two plateaus just as Dr Fung suggested. Oh, I must add that my 600-800 cal/day is completely absent sugar or white flour…franly any flour. Occasionally I will indulge in a lunch of 2 deli slices of Danish Ham w/mustard and a deli slice of swiss cheese (about 140 cals) for lunch. Most days I am fine going from about 8pm until about 5pm the following day. I used to have that on whole wheat bread but as I cut out bread I didn’t want the sandwich meats to go bad. I am about 30lbs away from, what I would consider, my target weight.

Has anyone else experienced a slow to no weight loss fasting? I thought the entire point was to re sensitise your body to insulin such that one could start burning fat to make up for the severe calorie deficit, i.e 2000 – 800 = 1200 (from fat) * 7 = 8400 / 3500 = ~2.5 lbs/wk. Hmmm. I gues expecting that per day is a bit of wishful thinking, huh? I believe the cold feel signify my metabolism is being throttled back. That would be sad!. Good wishes to all!

Hi, you seem to be very knowledgeable and well motivated so I would expect you to have targets and to try and predict your various outcomes. Do you still get all of the vital nutrients that includes 300 mg/day of carbohydrate? You write 600-800 cal/day and this is quite if not very, tough.If the fat calculation you mention was that simple and Ketosis that predictable it would be great but most of us here did the same thing every day for 8 weeks or more and lots varied, stalled, plateaued and had all sorts of experiences some good and some not so good. If you are nearing your target, well done but don’t be too hard on yourself. I found it tricky getting back to increasing calories to stop losing recently as I was re-programmed! We know this works, I have not watched Dr Fung but my results are great and I am now 16 weeks away from when I started and then I was Obese and now I am not. Good luck Wcorey…

Well, there are no essential carbs as there are essential proteins and fats. But, to your question, I do try to eat a lot of green vegetables, be it broccoli or spinach or lettuce/carrots/onions in a salad. I do eat red meat but I can still keep to a 700 +/- calorie intake per day. Honestly, I am not especially hungry. Somewhere I read that the brain is terrible at distinguishing thirst from hunger which is, at least one, reason to stay very well hydrated. It helps with regularity as well. A lot of times when you think you are hungry you aren’t, you’re thirsty. So have 12-16oz of water and if, in 30 mins, you are still feeling hungry have a substantive snack or meal or tough it out as what fasting does is give the insulin levels a chance to dial back. Insulin resistance is caused by the persistent high levels of insulin in your system. That is the flaw in the 6 meals a day (3 meals, 3 snacks).

Goals, absolutely. Last July I set myself the goal of losing 100lbs in 12 months. I was secretly hoping to finish in 10 as that would be about 2lbs/week which should have been do-able. I think I missed it as I am 15 lbs off but close also counts in weight loss. Mathematically I should be good for wrapping the weight loss portion of this journey in the next 2 1/2 months.

Oh, and finally. Outstanding job on your part obese to not obese. I just crossed that threshold as well. I am hoping to cross the next, overweight to normal and then to land at or below a 34″ waist. What Dr Mosley flagged (TOFI) seems to support what I recall hearing ever so long ago, a man should have a waist no larger than 34″.

Very interesting wcorey.

Within your diet, do you know how many grams of carbs you are having within your 800 calories? As you say, there is no recommended carb level, but keeping carbs to 30-50gm a day (I am currently trying 20gm for the short period of the BSD as I have less pounds to lose) should kick start weight loss. And are you in ketosis, do you know?

Watching this post with interest. I have been following BSD800 for 7 weeks now and although I am losing weight most of it appears to be from everywhere but my stomach/abdomen!! My weight loss has been erratic and had a prolonged periods of no weight loss. I am keeping my carbs between 40-50g and my calories below 800! Am now wondering if I will need to lower my carbs further…my Ketostix show trace or low amounts of ketones at best… what is optimum nutritional level – can anyone advise please?

Thanks,

Imogen.

Actually, yes I do. Hang on. According to MyFitnessPal I should average 188gr of carbs / day. I think that’s high and I’ve set the balance of carbs/protein/fat to de-emphasize carbs but it does reflect my avg daily intake over the week which is 48 for the last 7 days and 38g for the prior 7 days.

On the ketosis issue, YES, very interesting. I don’t believe the BSD or New Castle or Fung suggested diet will ever allow one to enter ketosis. I had asked this question in the Dr Fung blog and, to my knowledge never got a response. In Dr Fung’s Obesity Code book on pg 239, Dr Fung writes

“4. Ketosis -(one to 3 days after fasting begins) – The storage form of fats, triglicerides is broken down into glycerol, Glycerol is used in glucoseneogenesis”.

However, on a diet where one eats every day are they not oscillating between phase 1 – feeding and phase 2 – post absorptive phase? Well, reading it again, perhaps not as, at least from what Mifflin BMR says I should require a tad over 2,000 cals/day which is substantially more than 800 calories. However, if you look at Atkins, their induction phase limits one to what is it, 10g or 20g of carbs so it isn’t clear to me if 30-50 would trigger that. My initial question about cold feet in the middle of this process would indicate to me my body was trying to lower my metabolism to match my food intake, which should not be occurring when fasting. This was the genesis of my question are others experiencing cold extremities well into this process?

As a result. I am toying with the idea of simply not eating anything beyond water, Omega-3 capsules and vitamin supplement for perhaps a full week. This will clearly trigger ketosis. Again, the difference between either the Fung, Mosley, Taylor diets and Atkins is they all allow vegetables.

Hi wcorey

I cannot claim to be an expert.

However, I decided to undertake the BSD for the following reasons

– I had noticed that my weight was more than I wanted it to be, but I had been unsuccessful in trying to reduce it.
– I was concerned that I was beginning to eat unrefined carbs (largely bread, but also pastries) because I felt I ‘needed’ them – potentially a sign of mild carb addiction – and I couldn’t seem to stop myself doing this.
– I felt that although 18 months ago my blood tests for both BS and cholesterol were ok, if tested again they might not be.
– I didn’t know where to start to get myself fitter, felt dopey in the mornings, had stopped running etc etc

So I started the BSD, conscious that with only a relatively low level of weight to lose (22 lbs) I would not necessarily see the big losses other people with a higher target weight loss might see.

After a week, I noticed that other people were referring to apps such as MyFitnessPal, and when I started entering what I was eating, I noticed – with some amazement – the carb load of some vegetables within my 800 cals.

I also logged into http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com which supports recalculation of the balance of carbs, fats and protein within a set number of calories (which you can then use to set your target on MyFitnessPal). I invested in some Ketostix (readily available online) which very simply measure whether you are in ketosis or not.

You can then set your targets accordingly, within the calorie content you decide, to optimise weight loss at the level you want.

I have noticed that sometimes my weight stays level for some time whilst I am still in ketosis, and when I am noticing that my waist size (for example) is reducing. I have made the assumption that this may be because I am burning visceral fat (from round my organs), which is obviously a good thing.

My total weight loss after 4 weeks is 11lbs, which is half my target. I am keeping to 20-30 carbs per day, and my keto-calculator suggests the proportion of my calories should be 10% carb, 42% protein, 48% fat. This will differ from person to person because of the personal details entered.

I hope this may help.

Hi Imogen – just spotted your post!

I looked at how important the colour of the Ketostix was! Apparently it doesn’t matter if you are light pink or purple, so long as you are in ketosis. Which is a relief! However, I am trying to do 20gm carb, so you could give yourself a bit of that just to try.

And with regard to the residual fat, I was also told by someone that the body burns the visceral fat first and then moves to the subcutaneous fat. And that the last fat to go is that below the navel.

It b—-dy would be!

On the other hand, I am also enjoying losing some of the fat from the top half of my body. Seems to be a bit more to go there, if I’m honest.

Good luck!

I think some people are conflating the BSD diet with the Atkins diet. Mosley states green leafy veggies can be eaten a lot. You won’t see this on the Atkins diet as they are a, effectively no carb diet, especially during the induction phase. Limiting yourself to 10g of carbs / day is no easy task. However, to be sure, Atkins does work, right up until it, too, stops working. This phenomenon is covered more fully in Fung, either his 6 part series or the Obesity Code. That I, apparently lost 8-9lbs in 2 weeks would tend to indicate I am successfully losing weight. It doesn’t feel that way. Oh, I should say too, that I generally have 4-8oz of red wine in the evening before bed. At roughly 100 cals/glass it often is used to hit the 700 to 800 threshold.

Yes, indeed, I know that the BSD recommends plentiful vegetables. It is also not so much a ‘Diet’ as a way of eating for life, with a period of low target calorie intake to kick start both weight loss and lowering of blood sugar.

I am not trying to follow Atkins, but to be aware of carbs in the BSD for a temporary period, and I am doing it specifically because I do not currently have a BS problem (or at least I hope I don’t – see my earlier post), but wish to ensure my visceral fat is under control, regain command over my refined carbohydrate cravings, and to lose a relatively small amount of weight.

I am limiting myself to 20-30 gems of carbs per day (not 10, or zero), and I will only do this for the 8 weeks of the BSD.

Enjoy the wine!

🙂
Thank you so much for the pointer to the keto website. I just finished as you described and reconfigured MFP to be 750cal/day and, in my case, it worked out to 28g of carbs, 29g of fat and 94g of protein. I am not confident on the protein as too much is not good for you. Once I get to my target I will reconfigure MFP for maintain weight. In the Fung book and series his strongest case is made for no (or severely restricted) sugar and no or restricted white flour and essentially no potatoes. However there is a confluence of weight management and diabetes management or reversal. I am going to the reversal target. Could it represent? Sure, and if that happens, I’ll deal with it but, ideally by restricting the worst of the worst, ideally it won’t. Perhaps I will graduate to eating 2 meals a day or maybe even 3 if my a1c drops into the below 6 range, 5.0 +/-. But, independent of my weight, my primary goal is 5.0 +/- say .5. I am highly confident once I am there, the weight issue will take care of itself.

Thanks Igorasusual…really helpful. I can just relax about the Ketostix and keep on keeping on until the dreaded fat has all gone!!

Imogen🌻

This post will really only be germane to those on here who are diabetic or prediabetic. Has anyone noticed that their morning fasting blood glucose has actually risen on this regiment? This is a little on the weird side but when I first started, for the first week perhaps, my morning fasting blood glucose was 91-92 pretty much routinely with one bump to 95 and another to 101. The higher values seem to pair with a bad night’s sleep. Now it seems they are routinely in the low 100’s. And this morning I’d say I had a good night’s sleep, although the cat did get me up at 3:30am to play. The ‘bad night’s sleep generally was because the cat got me up at 3:30 to play and I couldn’t get back to sleep. This morning I did pretty easily but got dinged for sleeping for close to 9hrs but it was a multiple disturbance 9hrs.

That aside. I have, for some time, been on an intermittent fast, every day eating only supper around 5pm and morning coffee around 8am. There clearly was over 8 hours elapsed between end of eating and the blood draw but for the last several weeks I have not consumed more than 800 calories in any given day. So I am perplexed why it would go up in the last few days.

wcorey –

do a search on this site for Bill1954, who is a great contributor to this forum, and look for his THIS HAS TO WORK (I think it’s called that, or something like) which reflects his journey and has some interesting stuff on it about morning fasting readings, with helpful contributions from other people.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for that reference! I did find it but couldn’t find the part that specifically addressed at what point it stabilized. Even in the original New Castle studies, it took a week or so for the FBS to stabilize mostly. I am familiar with DawnPhenomenon. That’s not it as that is a ritual occurance. For the longest time, certainly as far back as 2013 I routinely had FBS of 85, every six months, 85, take it to the bank. I’ve never been one to live on a glucose meter, in fact, I don’t own one, my wife does and now I borrow it occasionally. The current hypothesis that came out of the New Castle studies is just as weight has a set point, so too does one’s hormonal system, as it relates to being diabetic. Using BMI, below a certain BMI normal blood sugars (taken to mean non diabetic) and above that BMI, diabetic as the fat level exceeds what the body can deal with so insulin resistance skyrockets and high blood sugars result. As this relates to me, I noodled that a FBS of 85 is what I should expect and as of a week ago seeing a pretty consistent 91,92 with a singular 95, a singular 110, and a singular 106 I am now concerned as to where have the 91’s gone? What I believe I will start doing is measure my FBS at 5pm as the only thing I will have ingested, other than water since the prior evening is a smidge of half and half in my coffee, not even 10 cals.

Should someone run across Bill might you ask him to make an entry? TY.

It’s been about three weeks since. I’ve noticed quite a difference from about 4″ above and below my waist but not so much on the scale. Sadly, I am comforted to see so many others report plateaus. It’s easy for someone to feelit is just them. To refresh peoples memory, I am doing a cross between there BSD and Jason Fung’s 24 hour fast. Not the alternate day fast but every dat. Essentially I eat one meal per day at dinner. It averages 700 calories +/- 100. I am not hungry and rarely cheat but for those very very rare times it is for a slice of swiss cheese or slice of turkey pepperoni. Both are zero carb.

Whar troubles me, and this is an open question, I occationally have very cold feet and hands. Do you? That tells me my body has dropped my metabolism and it it manefesting itself as lesdsd heat to the extremities. According to Fung,one’s metabolism is not lowered during a fast. But, if my metabolism is dropping to 800 calories, I am awed I am still alive and typing.

Are you having similar experiences?

Would love to know how you are getting on now a year after you write this. I had not heard of Dr Fungs Obesity Code so thanks for I will ow go and read up and add to my notes.

Hi Anne/Alex! I chuckled when I saw your post. To paraphrase, was it, “A few good men”, can you handled the truth. There’s an ‘internet Doctor…alledged doctor, begins with an M. Our daughter-in-law follows her but then she’s into magic answers and ‘stuff’ like that. I am beginning to think this stuff is too., frankly, esp Dr Fung. Since I was active on here I’ve tried the “don’t eat for a week” idea. Yeah, you can do it but it isn’t much fun. My earlier post of trying alternate day fasting, ala fast for 21 hrs, feast for 3, rinse repeat. It did work but it’s not much fun either. I was told no no no, indirectly, by Fung’s assistant. You can’t do that as your body will think it’s starving. You have to eat one day, not the next, one day, not the next… WHAT? how is that functionally different than eating 3 hrs, not for the next 21 hrs. Is this where magic happens? Likely be perfect if you lived alone. As Matt Daemon (Martian) would say, “let’s do the math”. My BMR is, allegedly, around 1600 cals/day. I think it’s way lower but…. 1600×7 is 11200 cal/week. Divided by 3500 is about 3lbs/week. When I mentioned cold feet, that’s the body throttling back it’s metabolism. So that 3lbs may end up being 1 lb. Oh, I did discover my eczema outbreaks ceased completely being in ketosis. It’s really hard to eat ~ 1500 cal/day without simple carbs. Why do I say that? Aside from it’s true, It has been suggested my issue is I am not eating enough. Right now I am about 20lbs higher than my low point in this experiment, which was about 2 yrs ago I think. I also went off the wagon a tad. That happened before and it took about 6 months to get within horseshoe distance from that low. It’s tough, when you have a family or spouse even to just not eat. And, by doing that, is that ‘not eating enough’? When it comes right down to it, I question how much of this stuff, be it the two doctors I’ve been talking about, plus that internet doctor who’s name begins with an M isn’t purely about selling books. However, my A1C is down to 5.1 which is the low side of normal. That has less to do with Fung than it does Taylor.
What I most recently been trying to do is stay in Ketosis. Again, it’s relatively easy to do that but that appears to take forever to lose weight..although, by virtue of being in ketosis you are metabolizing body fat. BTW, Fung has another book, Complete Guide to Fasting. By the time you finish Obesity Code, you’ll be clear his message is fast. Oh..I am about to go back on the wagon. On whole, I am way better off than I was a couple of years ago. This will just be…the new normal. It may just be my metabolism now is 1,000 – 1200 cals/day. Anything more I will gain weight.

Whole thread an interesting read wcorey. Thanks for some insights. Getting back on wagon again myself with BSD for 8 weeks but very interested in the longer term and when the body reaches a point of not wanting to perform on these programmes. Do we move to fasting or reboots once in a while on BSD or what. Not sure what true maintenance looks like without ongoing austerity.

I am ‘practising’ maintenance at the moment, and using fast days at 800 calories, 16:8 intermittent fasting and skipping meals on some days to keep the fasting health benefits, and reduce my average calories to a sensible level, but I am not counting anything as ‘banned’ anymore, just trying to not overdo any treats and snacks. So far it seems to be working, although holidays are ‘anything goes’ and I have just come back from one so am a little heavier than my comfort zone at the moment. Fasting routine starts again on Monday so either the excess weight will go quickly or I will add an extra fast day the week after. I will do a full reboot after any period of continued indulgence (already planning for the Christmas holiday) and hope to keep this weight truly stable for several years. It has been 7 months so far.