5 months in - is it time to up my 800 Cals - or not quite? - The Blood Sugar Diet by Michael Mosley

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posted by marie123
on 1 Jan 2018 at 22:52

Hello and Happy New Year everyone,

I’m after a bit of advice. I’ve been on 800 cals/20g carbs for 5 months. I’ve got my blood sugars under control and have lost 3 stone since August (over 4 stone total if I include pre-BSD weight loss). So I’m delighted so far.

But I’m in a bit of a quandary now. I’m 10 stone. To reach my mid-healthy BMI approx. 8st 7lb, I need to lose another 1 1/2 stone (9.5kgs). (As a minimum, I definitely want to lose 1 stone – 6kgs).

I can’t work out if I should stick with 800 calories for maybe 3-ish more months to keep momentum and complete the weight loss or start upping my cals now – I’ve been feeling more tired and less energetic recently – is 5+ months too long on 800 cals?

I’d appreciate your thoughts advice.

Marie

nb I’m still completely committed to this way of eating long-term
posted by Eliza52
on 2 Jan 2018 at 00:39

Hi Marie

I’m in a similar situation to you. I’ve kept to plan (without too much difficulty I have to say) and am ALMOST at normal BMI, having lost just over 3 stone (about 20 kgs) but still need to lose another stone (say 6 or 7 kgs). I’m tempted to keep going BUT all the advice seems to be that you shouldn’t do the 800 cals for more than 3 months (and I’ve been doing for more like 4 months). You should then VERY gradually increase cals – first to 1000, then 1200, then 1400 etc but over a period of weeks, NOT all in one go! (up to four months to gradually increase the cals). This should enable you to stabilise, and not put any back on (personally, I’m worried that if I start to up the cals, the weight will go back on….but for one thing my hair is still falling out, and I think I should give it a chance to recover – though otherwise I feel completely fit and well). So I’ve decided to go for a period of maintenance – i ate around 1000 cals yesterday and again today, so we shall soon see what the effect of that on my weight is! I will then have my blood tests repeated in March to check progress on that front (at the moment, as I’ve reported before, they are right down, which at the end of the day is the most important thing – reversing the Type 2), before hopefully trying 800 again to lose the remaining weight.

I’ve been meaning to post over the past couple of days but I’ve been so busy with work that i’ve only had time to quickly skim some of the new posts, and not had time to post myself. So I’ll take the opportunity of saying Happy new Year to everyone! Hoping it’s going to continue to be successful for all of us in achieving our goals.!
Liz
posted by JackieM
on 2 Jan 2018 at 09:18

Hi there

I have found I continued losing weight once I stopped calorie counting, but kept to ‘principles’ of low carb. So I finished my 8 weeks on 64kg and am now 59.8kg (about a month or so on). I tend to yo-yo up and down the kilo I am currently on but with an overall downward trend. I am still v low carb but am relaxing veg and fruit constrictions. Not eating until brunch.

When I officially became a ‘maintainer’ lots of long term maintainers told me the weight would likely still drop, and so it has proved! They continued to drop pounds and pounds, though I think had a more scientific way of measuring the way they increased calories than I have. Maybe worth flicking back up the maintener thread to see if you can find their methods.

Hope this helps and congratulations on all you’ve achieved thus far.
posted by marie123
on 2 Jan 2018 at 11:11

Hi Liz and Jackie

Thanks both for responding, it’s really helped me to think things through.

Jackie – I remember a while ago you talking about the importance of listening to your body; funnily enough, it’s your words that have been in my mind the last couple of weeks. So, I’m going to take that advice. It’s a good idea to go back through the maintainer’s thread – will do that.

Liz – you’re right we are in a similar position. I’m also due my next hba1c in 3 months – end of March. So, I’m going to gradually up my cals while keeping to low carbs until then. Like you, I’ve not found the BSD too difficult (although I have gained 2lb this last week!) but unlike you (from your previous posts) my diet has narrowed from when I first started in August, so I’m going to concentrate on really widening out the variety of BSD-friendly foods I eat over the next 3 months. As Jackie says, we’re still likely to lose weight as we go so you may not need to do 800 again in March.

Really, again, thanks – I’ve got my way forward now.

Marie

Liz – apropos of absolutely nothing. I read your post to Allie about your job making miniature furniture, so was thinking about you while watching The Miniaturist over Christmas. I sincerely hope nothing like that goes on with the things you produce!
posted by JackieM
on 2 Jan 2018 at 11:41

Liz – dream job! Oh my goodness, I’ve always loved teeny tiny things. What a pleasure to do that on a daily basis.

Marie – it’s funny how our tastes change – am currently obsessed with courgette and spinach. Used to be obsessed with Parma ham – can’t touch it now. Mind you, used to be obsessed with biscuits so clearly body not infallible! 😂😳

Best of luck, with it. I’ve just had breakfast/lunch – courgette and spinach omelette with cheddar cheese cooked in butter. Yum. Can’t feel deprived after that! And have also thrown old cream away as that is my current kryptonite.
posted by SunnyB
on 2 Jan 2018 at 12:04

Hi there, I’m not sure where the advice of not doing the 800 for more than 3 months comes from, but I know for sure that there are many on the forum who have stuck to it for much longer than a 3 month period, to reach their desired weight and achieve a health BMI / rid themselves of meds for T2. However we all have to find a way to make the BSD WOL work for us, our bodies and our lifestyle, so if you feel you need to take a little time out and increase your cals/carbs then give it a try and see how you go. It is very easy to return to the 800 if you find weight loss is no longer happening and you want to push on.

Best of luck to you, no matter what route you decide to take.
posted by Eliza52
on 2 Jan 2018 at 16:52

Marie – having not counted or weighed anything since about the first couple of weeks (on the grounds that we tend to eat the same things over a period of time) I’ve just signed up to My Fitness Pal, as I think it’s all too easy when gradually trying to increase the cals, to overdo it, and end up with even more than intended. In fact, having entered what I’m having today, discovered it added up to nearly 100 cals too much, so I’ve taken out the full fat yogurt I was going to have for dessert (I’ll have the strawberries with balsamic vinegar instead) and foregone my afternoon warming OXO (more plain water!) and I’ll come in on my 1000 a day (give or take 10, and I refuse to bother about 10 cals!). This morning the scales were the same as yesterday….so fingers crossed that remains true tomorrow! According to My Fitness Pal, if I continue as I am, I should lose half a stone in five weeks – but I’m not convinced! (I’d be delighted of course if it happened!). So far too, I’ve not done ANY excercise (I know – I can hear the collected intake of “shock horror – NO excercise?”!) but I am signed up to start at the gym on 15th Jan (we’ve got my daughter home next week til she goes back to the States, and I decided to do it after that, as we may be out and about doing other things next week, and as it’s a freebie week at the gym, seemed silly not to take full advantage of it.

To Marie and JackieM – Re the miniatures, loved the series – beautiful sets and photography. Just like all those Dutch interior paintings you find in loads of art galleries! Hopefully mine aren’t quite so spooky! I specialise in modern furniture, so most of my time is spent designing and making miniature kitchens and bathrooms! In the middle of making a large American style steel fridge just now….so back to work for me!
Liz
posted by Esnecca
on 2 Jan 2018 at 17:14

Marie, I’m one of the people who did the Fast 800, counting every morsel the whole time, for 14 months. That was not planned from the beginning. I just found the 800 so beneficial and effective that I decided at the end of the 8 weeks to keep going for a while longer. I had something like 150 more pounds to lose at that point, so the endzone was still far in the distance. I kept going until I reached a healthy BMI, then gradually increased my calorie count, never the carb count, until I reached equilibrium 3 pounds under my original impossible goal.

I still count carbs today, unless I’m travelling. Monitoring my daily intake is essential for me because my body reacts so poorly to carbs. That’s how I got to the place of needing to lose 200 pounds in the first place, by having zero awareness of serving size, carb and sugar grams, and the fact that whole grains and beans stimulate an insulin spike in me just as much sugar does.

So, not to be redundant, but you do you. If you feel like you need more cals, eat more cals. However, give your diagnosis and your enormous, almost immediate success at controlling your blood sugar on the BSD, I would suggest you continue to monitor your carbs like a hawk. You do not want to turn back that clock.
posted by alliecat
on 2 Jan 2018 at 17:18

I don’t want to interrupt your work Liz, but as a retired designer, my mind
immediately went to thinking of what materials I might use to fabricate a kitchen
in miniature. What scale do you work to? Are you using thin guage metal
for the frig.? Are you doing any welding ? How about the countertops? Are
you making raised panels for the cabinetry? I could go on all afternoon, but
more interested in what you are up to! Maybe a photo someday? In addition
to watercolor painting, I also have produced museum quality ukrainian easter
eggs, and sugarpaste life size flowers for wedding cakes. In other words,
I love doing fussy work that involves high levels of concentration and excellent
hand eye co-ordination! Would love to hear more about your work! Do you
work on commission, or sell your work in shops?

Best,
Allie
posted by Eliza52
on 2 Jan 2018 at 17:44

Hi Allie….Goodness, where to start! You could check out our website which has ALL the info! (elfminiatures.co.uk) Mostly I work in 1:12, but I also do 1:10 (if you’ve ever seen the mini real cookery shows on Youtube by Tastemade, I made their miniature working kitchens in 1:10). I do 1:24, 1:16 and 1:6 too, but they’re a much smaller percentage of my work. I do use aluminum sheet for all my appliances (you can get a feel for some of them with this youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1zWWYifSkQ) . I do make raised panels for cabinets too (on some – not all of course). Countertops are either wood core with self-adhesive film or real laminate (or metal) surface, or real hardwood, or solid perspex (lucite). I both work on commission, and produce standard pieces, either ready built, or as kits for the buyer to assemble, paint, stain etc. I don’t sell to shops at all – I do so much commission work (even standard pieces can often be modified) and having a direct relationship with a client (albeit by email or phone) is the only way to understand what they really need/want. I used to do specialist shows too….but I’m so busy I no longer have the time to make all the stock required for shows! (Shows are stressful too – as well as pleasurable – and I don’t miss that aspect!).

Liz
posted by marie123
on 3 Jan 2018 at 13:09

Hi All

Thanks again to each of you for responding. It all helps!

SunnyB – Can’t remember what the book says, but I remember reading someone (maybe Bill1954?) had emailed the administrators to ask if it was OK to continue after 8 weeks and they’d replied it’s OK to extend to 12 weeks. But I know there are quite a few people who have continued for months with no ill-effect and in fact feeling brilliant all the way, Esnecca being a great example.

I think it’s a case of that old line “It’s not you it’s me” As I mentioned to Liz, somehow, unintentionally, I’ve gone from eating a wider range of food at the beginning of BSD in August to quite a narrow number of dishes more recently – I think that’s where I’ve gone wrong. So, I’m going to start upping my cals a bit and really going to focus on eating as wide a range of dishes as possible. I’m also going to re-introduce some fresh salads (stopped as it’s been so cold, but will try warm salads). I think that’ll soon set me to rights again. I’m hoping to still keep the weight loss going but maybe at a slower rate for a while. (I’ve got my target of reaching the top of my healthy BMI – a few lbs away – still fixed firmly in sight).You’re right, it’s about developing a way of life, so it’s all positive.

Liz – I’m a bit of a control freak so I’ve used fatsecret to record my cals and carbs from the start. Let me know how it goes with your weight and good luck with the gym. I’m now an active walker and will be going out with the old pedometer later to see what damage the high winds wrought last night. I’m also back to my other activities – gym, Pilates, etc, this week and will need to decide what to carry forward when my Exercise on Prescription programme ends. Enjoy the rest of the time with your daughter.

Esnecca – You’re absolutely right, I definitely don’t want to turn back that particular clock. I’ll be keeping rigidly to <20g carbs a day. I test my blood glucose levels every day before and after my meals so have a good idea of what’s going on with my bgls, and I’ll be continuing with that. Btw, can I just say I use ‘not one step backwards’ frequently – no, not frequently, judiciously, pulling it out as needed – to keep pushing myself forward – so, thank you for that.

Marie x

nb

Jackie – I remember my Dad buying me a doll’s house for Christmas when I was a little girl (early 60’s maybe). My Mum, who had a more realistic, less rose-coloured, view of me, went straight out and bought 2 Dinky cars to go in the garage and got my uncle to hook up some sort of electricity arrangement so I could switch the lights on and off. She was right, but I did grow to love buying all the furniture for the different rooms.
posted by JackieM
on 3 Jan 2018 at 14:02

Liz, oh my goodness, I am going to have a lovely afternoon on YouTube! Thanks for sharing.

Alliecat – yes, yes, yes to fussy work – I am the person who spent all one Christmas making miniature knitted and felt decorations to sell for the School fair. I am not accurate, always, but they were cute! That fad wore off, though I still have a lot of felt up in the attic somewhere … one day ….

Marie – I was the child with the dolls and the matchbox cars too. And my dad got me a mechanics set (real equipment). I also used to make dolls houses out of cardboard boxes and furniture out of matches and matchboxes. I think being myopic, poor and an only child all helped! Absolutely nothing of this follows through into my adult life (even the myopia improved!) aside from an abiding love of all tiny things. I keep telling OH how much I like small houses and he keeps not buying me any for Christmas. I did make a kit House from wood though, which I banned the children from ‘helping’ with (I let them do the furniture though 😂).

Am concentrating today on eating more types veg and seeds. I’ve gone up a kilo in 2 days, I think that’s a combination of fibre plus calories from nibbling away between meals on nuts/chocolate/cream etc. (Which I have also knocked on the head – was slightly sleep deprived after NYE and kept snacking I think). And gaining after a cold that stopped me eating. Still 4kg below my max weight, so experimenting a bit. I may post my seedy biscuit recipe, it’s delicious and crunchy, which is a texture I miss a bit. Probably the only recipe I ever will post, though I do enjoy reading them on here.
posted by JackieM
on 3 Jan 2018 at 14:04

Liz – just looked at your website. It’s AMAZING!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍😁😁😁😁😁😍😍😍😍😍
posted by alliecat
on 3 Jan 2018 at 14:42

Thank you Liz, for taking the time to reply. I WAS genuinely interested in your
professional endeavors! I enjoyed the you tube video, and will check out
your website. These personal stories/memories resonate so much with
me because we can’t see each other! I really must get that iphone that I
keep talking about, in the event that anyone might be interested in seeing
my work. I think that if you are a natural born designer, it can’t be silenced,
and resurfaces in everything that you do. On one occasion when I was being
interviewed about my small design firm, I was asked when I knew that was
going to be my profession. I took a quick trip through my memory bank,
and the earliest memory that resurfaced was this candid anecdote. I was
probably 8 – 10 years old. It was a snow day so schools were closed. My
mother sent us outside to play after first giving us baking pans, metal
bowls and a few molds. My sister and I started molding the wet snow with
them, but it wasn’t long before this wasn’t good enough for me. I unearthed
some soil from beneath the snow and started mixing it in different pro-
portions with the snow to create vary colors. We swept the snow off the
picnic table, and then unmolded our work to create a holiday dinner!
I hope I haven’t bored anyone going so far a field from the BSD? 🙂
At the moment, I’m simply redesigning myself!

Thanks everyone!

Allie
posted by marie123
on 4 Jan 2018 at 00:15

Hi Allie

Definitely not boring to me Allie – it’s always lovely to get these snippets from people’s lives and memories. x
posted by marie123
on 4 Jan 2018 at 00:34

Jackie

I meant to say please do post your seedy biscuit recipe – I’m going to try making flaxseed biscuits this week (in fact I’ve got the page with Tom Kerridge’s recipe for them open on my Kindle – 1g carb per biscuit – got his Dopamine Diet book for Christmas). Would love some crunchy biscuits to go with cheese – and I love seeds.

Marie

Talking about TK I’m off to iplayer to catch up with his new TV programme.
posted by Eliza52
on 4 Jan 2018 at 12:54

Allie – I would love to see some of your work! And I think you’re right – some people just have that design thing inside. My mother would recount how I would sit at about the age of 5 creating dolls clothes from paper hankies! I then “helped” Dad build some kitchen units for the new house when I was about 10 – and built a dolls high chair (very proud of my “halving joints”, Dad insisting I learnt some “proper” skills!) I earned money whilst a student by designing and making a range of stuffed toys (stylised animals – my sister still has one which sits in front of a full length mirror to stop a door banging into it and breaking the glass! We did have a metal spring door stop, but the cat learned that if we ignored him in the night, he could “twang” it and wake everyone up!). Much later (after a series of office based jobs in the City of London) I went to Italy and ran a jewellery shop with my ex-husband (he wasn’t “ex” at the time!) and designed and made jewellery. We also built model ships in the winter months, when the shop was closed. After I returned to the UK, I worked in an office again for a while, but when I had my daughter, and brought her up as a single mother, I started, almost by accident my miniatures business (Started by making a dolls house for her). Doubtless I shall still go on creating something even after I’ve retired!

Marie – I don’t know about you, but I wasn’t overly impressed with Tom Kerridge. Yes, I understand that different approaches work for different people….but HE lost weight doing Low Carb….so why switch to this? Why does he think that although he stuck to it, others wouldn’t?? Apart from a rather good looking lasagna (and I did like the idea of roasting the mince first!) everything else was a complete no-no, and likely in the long run to lead people going back to eating shop bought muffins, or KFC rather than the home made (but still carby) versions. This is no solution to long term change.

On a personal level, I am now doing around 1000 cals a day….and have lost a pound and a half, so dead on 10 st 13 now for the past two days! Quite happy with that. Wish the hair would stop falling out though!

Liz
posted by KazzUK
on 4 Jan 2018 at 13:26

Liz – I love anything creative. I thought your miniatures were amazing! Well done on getting into the lower stone!

Allie – you know I would love to see your work! 🙂 Did my large email get through to you yesterday? Just checking!

I dabble a little in water colours but I’m self taught and have to keep on top of practice! I’ll never make a living out of it but it’s very therapeutic and de-stresses. Mum mum was quite artistic… she made celebration cakes all of her life. Weddings, christenings, birthdays etc.

Perhaps we should start a creative thread? 🙂

xx
posted by alliecat
on 4 Jan 2018 at 18:55

Jackie and Marie, thank you for the sweet window into your childhood! We
could have had our own play group way back when 🙂 I guess that I’m still
at it now that I’ve essentially retired. So, it’s never too late to set our hands
in motion once again….Recently I’ve been working on handmade greeting
cards, some of which are multi dimensional, using die cut shapes and
embossed paper created with embossing plates. I ship them in clear 1″
card boxes. Yes, I must really get an iphone!!! I don’t need all the bells
and whistles, but a decent camera. Any suggestions would really be
welcome. Help!
Liz, your work is beautiful. I particularly enjoyed seeing the Herman Miller
office chairs! I use to install them in board rooms and in private offices.
What a nice memory to recreate in miniature. You have clearly been busy
with your hands for decades and are multi talented. I liked the cat story too!
We’ve always had a pair of siamese, and they are particularly creative at
disturbing those still asleep at 5:00am. We used to own a large home in
rural Connecticut with a full basement. The felines would crawl on top of
the forced hot air heating ducts and locate field mice that found their way
in over the winter. The best part is that they would carefully transport them,
very much alive, and deposit them on our bed! I’m sorry that you’re having
a problem with hair loss. Have you tried entering “hair loss” in the search
box?
Kazz, yes my friend I got your email. I’ve been having problems with that
program today and a reply is on the way. Alert me on the usual thread if
it doesn’t turn up! I didn’t know Belle made specialty celebration cakes…
I think she might enjoy seeing my sugarpaste flower decorations for wedding
and anniversary cakes?

Have a great evening, everyone,

Allie
posted by marie123
on 5 Jan 2018 at 18:19

Liz – That’s good to hear about the weight loss. I’ve started to up the calories, but only by 50 cals per week and intend to go up to 1000 to begin with. I’ll be happy if I keep losing – don’t mind if it’s less quickly. Will see how it goes.

The only thing I know about hair loss is I remember my Mum’s GP telling my Mum to have a square of jelly every day when she suffered hair loss. She swore it helped her hair recover, but don’t suppose it’s very blood-sugar friendly. Not sure what was in it that was helpful, if anything.

I did watch Tom Kerridge and had hoped he was going to cover more about his lower carb approach, specifically. I was bought his Dopamine recipe book for Christmas and while the recipes sound delicious there’s a lot that I can’t use as they are (they’re too high carb for me – I stay <20 g at the moment) but I’m going to pick out the one’s I can have a go at to begin with. Yes, I’m definitely going to try the roasting mince suggestion.

It was definitely a mixed message he was giving out, and it does irritate me if I think people/the public are being underestimated, but I did like the fact that it’s people from his local community that he is helping. I’ll see how it goes next week.

OK – I’ve just been told dinner’s ready – OH cooking tonight.

Allie and Kazz – will catch up with you soon.

Jackie – brilliant you’ve posted your recipe – will make them this weekend and catch up with you next week to let you know the result !
posted by JackieM
on 5 Jan 2018 at 19:29

Hey Marie, it occurred to me that less of the chia nd more of the mixed seeds would lower the carbs and the cals? Am currently obsessed with fibre, thus the extra chia for me. Fingers crossed you like them xx
posted by JackieM
on 5 Jan 2018 at 19:35

Allie – I would so join that play group. I had such sweet visions of busywork with my daughter when she was about 2. Just led to arguments tho …. she is not a maker apart from baking, she’s amazing at that.

I must be the only mum who enjoys making the costumes for World Book day (come as your favourite character to school). Highlights are a dictionary cover and Gulliver with little men made from dolly pegs. It’s all very slapdash but I enjoy it immensely.

I would love to see your cards I bet they are amazing! And I want Liz’s job, only without the actual skill to make it happen! Maybe I just need to invest in a few pieces from your website, Liz!
posted by alliecat
on 5 Jan 2018 at 20:04

Jackie, the idea of our own play group sends a happy little jolt through
my spirit, too! How annoying that the only thing standing in the way is
the minor inconvenience of the Atlantic ocean 🙂 I think acquiring an
iphone will be the first of my New Years resolutions! It would be wonderful
to share the fruit of my busy hands with all my friends here. Going to work
on it!!!

Have a great evening, everyone.

Allie
posted by marie123
on 6 Jan 2018 at 11:53

Just wanted to come on here before I go off-line for a few days as I wanted to say a quick hello to Kazz – keep meaning to find you to say Hi – hope you’re doing well.

I’m so impressed that you’re all so creative, and your Mum too, Kazz . My mum was a very good seamstress and my sister is really skilled at a lot of crafts. I’m not. While at school, I was basically told there was no point my continuing with art, cookery, sewing etc as I was so bad – they weren’t being cruel, it was a completely fair assessment.

Now play, I was brilliant at!

Liz and Allie – One thing I’ve always been curious about when people turn a creative interest into a business -does it not just become a chore, or do you still manage to keep that pleasure of creating. Just curious (always been good at that).