TOFI need to do whole 8 weeks?

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  • posted by TofiEm
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    Hi,
    Hope you can help – I have a BMI of 21 and a ladies size 10. I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes over a year ago and was discharged shortly after the birth because my fasting blood sugar was fine. I was dubious as my fasting levels had been fine throughout the pregnancy so tested myself sporadically and went back to eating fairly normally but my postprandial readings were high (12.3 at their highest after a not very sugary meal) and my fasting sugars were gradually increasing (in the 7s and 8s) Since January I went low carb and lost the last bit of baby weight and since starting the BSD on 9th Feb I’ve lost a further 5lb (not a huge amount but think I have probably been nearer 1000 calls some days due to snacking on nuts!) I have observed my blood sugars gradually decreasing but my hba1c came back last week with a level of 54. I realise that will reflect a period of 8-12 weeks so include Christmas and the period before I started the diet so my GP plans to repeat the test in two weeks. today is the first day (week 4) that every single test has been well within the recommended range and I am delighted! I would obviously plan to carry on with it for a few more weeks to check that the blood sugar levels remain reliably in that range but does anyone know how you can tell that your visceral fat has all been “purged”? Is there a reason why 8 weeks is the magic period of time or as a TOFI is it possible that this point can be reached sooner. As I have only lost 5lb and 1.5inches from my waist it seems unlikely that I have done enough to reverse it but wondered if there is any way to tell that the visceral fat has gone other than a body scan, presumably it is just the blood sugars remaining stable? Also, after the 8 weeks if I go onto the M Plan they should stay stable if all the visceral fat has gone but if they went back up that would tell me it was still there and that’s the reason to make sure I do it for at least 8 weeks? Thanks in advance!

  • posted by suzcaps
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    Hi TofiEm,
    I started the BSD800 on Jan 9 this year. I was also more of a TOFI as I didn’t need to loose too much weight but I needed to lose a lot off my waist. I did the BSD800 for 5 weeks where I lost all the weight and cm I needed and couldn’t really afford to loose anymore. The problem was that my sugars are still not exactly stable. I have fasting readings anything between 5.6 and 7.3. I have moved to BSD Way of Life and only count carbs now but still have fluctuating fasting readings. I have remained stable in weight but have lost even more off my waist. I started at 97cm and am now down to 82cm and I dropped 7kg. All of my postpandial readings are normal just that silly fasting glucose. I think this might mean there is still more visceral fat that needs to be purged. I am not 100% sure about that but maybe? I would think stable fasting sugar readings would indicate no more visceral fat.
    I don’t think you need to do the entire BSD800 if you have reached your goal weight but keeping to the M plan should I think a little more slowly get rid of any visceral fat that might be hanging on for dear life. I have also found that if I don’t drink enough water my fasting BS is higher. I have to remember to stay hydrated!
    Not sure if this was helpful 🙄

  • posted by bigeater
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    Hi Suzcaps,

    Well done on your weight loss and blood sugar results so far. I am not a doctor but what I think is that you probably need to lose more weight for your blood sugar readings to normalize. BSD eating is healthy eating but you may have to reduce your calories to lose a bit more.

    I had the problem of high morning readings too and some helpful BSDers pointed out that this was probably the dawn effect. You can google it or type dawn effect into the search box here. Lots of information about it.

    Hope this helps and good luck with your journey.

    Bigeater

  • posted by TofiEm
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    Thanks so much for your replies.
    Bigeater – I think you are probably right about the need to lose more weight, another 5lb would take me to a 10% overall loss and I remember reading somewhere that Prof Roy Taylor/Michael Moseley indicated that was the amount people needed to lose for reversal to happen, I would also then have a BMI of 19 which is still in the healthy range. I have found eating the snack before bedtime has given me better FBS results after seeing it suggested here and if I get a high FBS I’m trying to visualise it as the liver getting rid of its glucose never to be replaced which is quite satisfying

    Suzcaps – well done on your weight loss! Did you just carry on losing on your waist through just following the M Plan? If so, do you allow yourself any treats from the old way of life at all? I’m interested what you say about drinking water affecting your fasting sugars as I am sure I haven’t been drinking quite enough so that will be a good motivation to make sure I do. I’m also doing exercise before bed (40 minutes of step up knee lifts in front of the tv!) so realise that may be bringing the fasting sugars down, not sure if that will be sustainable forever but then again if it keeps me off medication then of course I will. Think I feel a bit against the clock to reverse it in case my GP wants to put me on medication but she was impressed by my chart of decreasing readings so I’d hope would be supportive if I asked for a further grace period of day 3 months.
    Thanks again for your responses – it’s given me the motivation to push on and reach that 10% target for the remaining 4 weeks and also taken heart that if they are not completely stable by the end, I can move onto the M plan and continue to see results rather than do 800 cals for life!

  • posted by suzcaps
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    Hi TofiEm,

    I started off with eating 800 calories and keeping my carbs down to under 50g and lost over 10 kg. I started at 74kg and now I am about 62-63kg depending. My waist started at 97 and is now down to 82. I am 170cm (5’7″ I think), and my BMI is 21.8 which is a big improvement for me. I was 84kg 5 years ago when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and lost about 14 kg then doing the anticancer diet. At that time I had no issue with blood sugar at all. Of course as the years went on I got a little lazier less worried about diet and got back up to 74kg and that is when all my sugar issues I started (well that is what I believe).

    I found eating this way very easy and I managed to keep under 800 cal with little problem and keeping under 50g of carb was not to hard either once I ACCEPTED that is a way of life and I need to keep up with it if I don’t want to end up like some of my aunts, cousin and my father who have diabetes. I stopped counting 800 cal after I hit 63kg cause my family was up in arms about how much weight I had lost, and friends and family were expecting the worst – that my BC had returned – and that was why I was losing weight.

    I stopped counting calories and only carbs but still didn’t eat too much more than before. You get used to eating a certain amount and I found it hard to eat more calories without increasing my carbs. So, I was still loosing cm’s off my waist while my weight has stayed stable.

    I am going to do BSD5:2 starting from this week. That way anymore weight loss is slower and less noticeable to others and maybe my blood sugars will stabilise. I usually find that only my morning levels are high and my before and after meal reading are within normal range so I believe as BigEater suggested I have the dawn phenomena – I did some extra blood sugar readings at about 4am a few nights and I think that is about right.

    In regards to water, I definitely find that if I haven’t drunk enough water the previous day my blood sugar levels are a bit higher in the morning. For me this is a few points off from normal to pre diabetic readings. So instead of say 5.8 it will be 6.2. I will definitely make sure that I drink way more water. I have also noticed when I exercise regularly my reading are also better. I do all my exercise in the morning before eating. I like exercising while I am still in a fasting state – I think it really helped me with weight loss. I also have to say that each night before I go to bed I drink a glass of kefir with a teaspoon of maple syrup – living dangerously I know!!

    This week was the first time I allowed myself a little treat (besides having a small square of dark chocolate once a week), Muffin Break have a new range of lower carb muffins that are about 20g per muffin – I shared about a quarter with a friend. It was delicious but not something I will have too often. I prefer my yoghurt and berries or coffee with real cream!

    Hope any of this helps.

  • posted by TofiEm
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    Really useful – thank you. I’m sorry to hear you have had to encounter two difficult health issues but lovely to hear the diet has worked quite well for you. My fasting readings have all been under 6 this week so I am keeping everything crossed that what I have been doing has worked but still going to push on to make sure they are consistent and to give me a bit of wiggle room for when I start to experiment with some more foods and look at whether I increase carbs over time. The BSD way of life seems to be quite manageable and if I can still manage a single glass of wine once in a while or a pudding once every couple of weeks that would easily be enough for me I think but will have to see the impact it has on my levels to determine if it is worth it. One thing I have noticed which has been a nice surprise is that I’m looking younger! My eyes feel brighter and I’m certainly wearing less make up – I thought having two small children had started to take its toll on my face but I think it may well have been the sugar! It makes those treats look less appealing all the time!

  • posted by suzcaps
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    Hi TofiEm,Yay for looking younger and having brighter eyes! I hope your BS have stayed under 6 and that you are doing well.
    I agree that the BSDWOL is very manageable. Eating out seems much easier at the moment as well. Every now and again I would ‘mourn’ my old way of life: fresh bread with butter, hash browns for breakfast and pasta dishes. Now that I have accepted that this is for life and not some passing fad, I cope better with saying no to those highly refined foods and sweet treats without that sad puppy dog look of missing out. I happily pass on those foods and I always have someone comment on my amazing willpower. I don’t feel that it is willpower, more like I can’t stand anything too sweet.
    Best of luck with your BS journey.

  • posted by TofiEm
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    Thanks Suzcaps. Oddly the last week my fasting sugars have increased to the low 6s everyday which is odd. I’ve tried the nighttime snack, drinking plenty, know all about the dawn phenomenon etc and the rest of my readings are now fine except for that one. I often go quite low (3.7) mid to late morning but otherwise all remain between 4 and 6, even post prandial. I know this is an issue you have had and from the other posts it seems that others have experienced this quite a long way into the diet and that, anecdotally, lasts about 3 weeks or so and is a sign that the liver is shedding more fat. I hope that is the case. Do let me know if you find anything that makes it improve, otherwise I am just going to try to be patient. I have just finished the 8 weeks so have upped my calories slightly but still keep carbs very low. I do wonder if I am now perhaps eating too much fat through the odd lump of cheese, yoghurt and couple of nuts but even if I were, I can’t see how they would impact my blood sugar levels unless I’m replacing the stored fat with more fat if you see what I mean! Bmi is now 21, down from 24 at the start but I think I’m going to try to lose a bit more until the fasting sugar issue improves. Do let me know if yours manages to resolve itself in time.

    Thanks

  • posted by suzcaps
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    TofiEm, you sound exactly like me! In the past week my FBS were in the high 5’s rather than low 6’s and I was eating more carbs during that week – daughters birthday cake and a half low-carb muffin with coffee. I also ate toast and baked beans. Today my FBS were back to the low 6’s again and I was eating low carb yesterday. I honestly can’t explain way or how this is happening. I use an app called MyNetDiary and I went back to the beginning when I started on Jan 7th and looked at my carb intake from each day and the following days FBS and there was no pattern of higher carb intake showing a higher FBS. In fact many times when my carb intake was above 50g the FBS seemed to drop a little but not always. Maybe it has something to do with the type of carb(?). Possibly from beans and grains it might lower but the white flour type products may not. I will have to investigate a little further and see what was making up my higher carb intake on the days my FBS was lower the following day. I think I can do a printout from my app. I would love to get to the bottom of all this. I understand the dawn phenomonenm but I am not sure how long it should last or it it a permanent thing for some people like my Dr suggested. I have a BMI of 21.5. I went from (if I am being really honest ) 74kg down to about 62kg – several years ago I was 82kg and got down to 70kg, then regained weight to the 74kg. My waist was 95cm and is now down to 83cm.
    In a few other forum posts the suggestion is to loose a bit more weight especially if it can be lost around the waist. I am not sure how much more weight I should loose. I know that that a BMI of 19 (55kg)is the lowest for a healthy weight for my height. I might try and get down to 60kg and see if that helps but I doubt I would go any lower.
    Let me know how you go and if you find anything that helps. I would love to get to the bottom of this. Good luck with your BSD journey.
    Suz

  • posted by TofiEm
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    Hi Suzcaps,

    I’ve been reading quite a bit around this and have found a few articles quite helpful (can’t vouch for their accuracy!) You will see the one below suggests that while the low carb diet generally improves insulin resistance, that once one has reached a lean weight – which you and I now have- the continued very low carb can actually make us less sensitive to insulin, which would tie in with your experience of having better FBS following a higher carb day?
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/does-eating-low-carb-cause-insulin-resistance/

  • posted by suzcaps
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    Hi TofiEm,

    Thanks for that article. It was really very interesting and I think it may be spot on.

    Yesterday I had two slices of low carb bread for breakfast, a quarter of a mini cheesecake (rare treat, coffee with friends) and a piece of naan bread with my curry last night. Didn’t do any other exercise than normal everyday walking and my FBS this morning was 5.7!

    I was expecting it to be much higher. After thinking about it the BSD book doesn’t actually tell you to go very low carb or ketogenic it just says to cut out processed carbs and the like. It was only after reading all the forum posts that I went ketogenic for the 8 week diet.

    Maybe as the article suggests it’s time to up the carbs to closer to 100g and see how it goes. Obviously making sure the extra carbs come from good sources not refined junk carbs.

    There is another great site out there, not sure if you have heard of it – diet doctor.com. They also have several levels of low carb which is very interesting. You might want to take a look.

    I will definitely check out more info like the article.

    Thank you so much for posting this information.

    Happy Holidays.

  • posted by TofiEm
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    Hi Suzcaps,

    Hope things are going well for you – I have been waiting it out, experimenting with increasing carbs, more water etc but so far fasting sugars are staying in the 6s. Unfortunately I also overdosed on cheese and yoghurt and made myself quite ill so no have a rather sensitive stomach that can’t be helping the readings much. I have been reading up around the dawn phenomenon and Jason Fung who wrote the very useful guide to it which has been posted on here and there were some interesting points he made in another article about how the low carb med diet is great for weight loss but actually improving insulin resistance depends much more on when you eat and that fasting is a much more effective way of doing that quickly so the 5:2 method would actually be a better option at this stage. I’ll find the link and post it here for you to have a look but I found it interesting. As a result I think I’m going to have a go at doing the 16hrs:8hr routine and see what happens as dinner at 7pm followed by breakfast at 11am seems pretty do-able and if it works more successfully at reducing the fasting numbers finally, I’d be pleased.

  • posted by suzcaps
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    Hi TofiEm,
    I found that article extremely interesting, and it was timed perfectly. I have during the last week ‘accidentally ‘ been fasting. By that I mean, I haven’t had time for breakfast and wasn’t particularly hungry, so I have been skipping breakfast and just eating a slightly bigger lunch and my weight is stable and my FBS have been in the high 5’s. Not only that I have increased my root vegetable intake and upped my fruit intake. All good so far. I think I will keep my carbs around the 100g mark, and fast a couple of times a week. Fingers crossed that will work for me. I need to get my blood work done in 2 weeks so those results should be interesting. I have been sneaking in some chocolate, and the occasional low-carb bread. Helga’s has come out with some lovely low GI bread.

    How are your FBS going? Has your experimenting paid off? I feel maintenance is so much harder than the losing and it is probably the least talked about phase of the diet.

    Let me know how your fasting works out for your FBS levels. Yes, I believe fasting from after dinner to lunch time very doable. I find really fragrant and light herbal teas can really help and you might be able to fast longer if you want.

    Happy Fasting

  • posted by TofiEm
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    Hi Suzcaps,

    Glad to hear your accidental fast has been working! Similarly, having had such a bad tummy upset, my appetite has reduced hugely so it seemed a good time to try some fasting as I think my system needed some time to recover. As I could no longer do yoghurt for breakfast and have always hated eggs, I managed to find an alternative breakfast – two Heck chicken sausages and a tablespoon of baked beans – honestly delicious and only about 6g of carbs overall. That has then kept me going until early evening when I have a typical low carb supper (chicken or fish with green veg) and then finally a further chicken sausage at about 10pm. Not exactly fasting in the truest sense but not much more than 500/600 calories (I too have sneaked in the odd square of very dark chocolate!) As a result (although who knows!) my FBS have been in the low 5’s the last two days – the best I’ve had in weeks. Don’t know if it is the fasting or introduction of the sausage before bedtime (instead of yoghurt or cheese I had been having) but plan to continue with both and see what happens. My birthday coming up so expect I may have a slightly higher carb/calorie day soon and will then find out if it’s the fasting or change of bedtime snack that is to thank. As you say, there isn’t quite as much guidance on maintenance, certainly as a TOFI. Hope your blood results come back well – my next one is in June so hoping that will be good news. Will definitely try that low gi bread as I miss toast hugely! I had veered away from the 5:2 approach as I couldn’t see myself being strict enough on the remaining 5 days but I think I have ended up doing about 7 days on 1000-1200 calories which has been fine for weight maintenance but not had the impact on insulin resistance (or so it would appear from the FBS) that I had hoped. Hopefully having two much stricter days will do. All the best and thanks for your encouragement – it’s quite a rollercoaster and rather complicated to explain to family and friends!

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